I Didn’t Expect To Fall In Love With Tsc After Tsw

I like both TSC and TSW for different reasons. As mentioned earlier in the thread, TSW is much easier to just pick up and play - if I haven't got long and just want to load up and have a quick 30 minute blast on GWE or SEHS, I can do that without too much problem. Timetable mode really is TSW's unique selling point however I think it is fair to say that a significant number of services are clear runs without much going on in between. I have other grievances with TSW - the passenger system remains shockingly bad and is really something which should have been fixed in early iterations. I think the horse has bolted from the stable door on this one and don't ever think it'll be properly fixed now - DTG seem too busy churning out yearly releases and slowly breaking the core of their game. I'm tired of high speed runs in well modelled ICE/HSTs/Pendolinos but with no passengers on board.

I do think that TSC is more versatile - the sheer amount of content and routes is staggering and that's just payware. It can feel long in the tooth however if you are willing to look past the late 00's graphics, and old-school HUD, I do think there is a more satisfying and rewarding game to be found. It doesn't come easy and to be honest the best experience only comes after either time (waiting for sales) or money in the way of the Armstrong Powerhouse packs and enhancements. Again, I think the DLC can be insidious, particularity as this can involve double and sometimes triple-dipping on the same locos to get the best versions of them. Tinkering with Locoswap and using editors etc. can also be overwhelming and isn't something I particularly want to contend with on a weekday night. Even after getting the enhancement packs you want, chances are you still won't have a complete set as you'll then need to buy the rolling stock, coaches and everything else in between.

Both games have their pros and cons. Whilst TSW is new, shiny and sometimes strikes gold, I feel it lacks ambition and is starting to get particularly stale in terms of routes, rolling stock and general variety. I find myself playing TSW less and less with each iteration as a result. TSC can feel rough and whilst not abandoned by modders and 3rd parties, it's a shame DTG have basically left it out to dry now.

If you've got a decent enough PC and have never given it a go, I would recommend taking some time to give it a go. I generally think it to be more satisfying. I just did a Bedford -St Pancras run with a VP 43 and met 222s, 319s and 387s along the way - I'd like to know how many years before TSW could replicate this..!

 

GTA 3 had better character movement/interactivity.

 

And GTA IV had better driving and damage than V

 

I have just spent a few days making quick drives on the combined Preston to Glasgow/Edinburgh route. I can drive a Pendolino, Voyager, class 350, class 37, 56, 60, 66, 86, 90, 91 or a 92. Or a class 156, 158, 314, 318 or a 320 on the local lines out of Glasgow. I can pick a train from the passenger timetable or one of the working timetables if I want and drive to the timetable. I have paths from Carlisle to Edinurgh and Glagow, to and from Mossend and Coatbridge, from Glasgow to Edinburgh as well as more local services. I have set it so a lot of the AI traffic will be different each item. The stock is all of good quality most has a lot of functionality and the sounds are generally very good. Yes it costs a bit of money to get it all but a lot has been acquired over years and it can take some time to make quick drives, although you don't have to as most routes and stock come with them. I will probably have 60 routes installed with quick drives spanning the early 1900's to the present day, when I have finished.

Personally I would rather be driving a Pendolino in TSW over TSC, but I would rather drive a Pendolino in TSC from Euston to New Street or Preston to Glasgow, rather than Euston to Milton Keynes in TSW. This has become the biggest issue for me, alongside the situation with steam period content, some of the TSW routes feel like short taster sections. If you look at the steam content on TSC which has been released and still being built and the amount of freeware steam period routes, it makes you wonder why it has apparently been so unsucessful in TSW.

For me TSW has failed to provide the "complete" experience I was expecting, three times I have uninstalled TSC for TSW and after a couple of months reinstalled it again. This time I can't see it happending and if anything TSW will be uninstalled, as it is I have a few routes installed and haven't even played them for ages and these are the flagship JT and TSG routes which do TSW the justice it has the potential to be. The next iteration (TSW6) will have to offer something very special for me to be interested in it.

I recognise I am likely in the minority with this view.

 

Does TSC come with timetables if you have the correct layers or the ai trains are from more a scenario base?

 

Pretty much everything in TSC is scenario based aside from Free Roam or Quick Drive, most default scenarios that come with commercial routes (Ones on steam for example) has all the stock included in the base route itself.

Alot of the in depth 3rd party scenarios however, you need to track down and have all the assets installed or you will get an error on launch. (Which can get expensive if its pay ware assets, or hard to find if the assets are discontinued)

Depending on what you are missing, you can usually cancel save and run the scenario normally (if the missing asset for a train doesn't effect gameplay such as blocking the player progress or causing a derailment)

 

I have been thinking of "taking the jump" and try TSC out. The things preventing me from doing it is the lack of a timetable mode, the need of and dependency on scenary packs, expansion packs, scenario packs which is just a "waste" of money and the hardships of navigating Steam (i play on Epic)

And of course: older routes don't get updated, trains like the class 86 are too old and rubbish.

 

The selection of steam locos is absolutely amazing on TSC, makes me want to invest in it but if DTG pulled their finger out we could have it on TSW too.

 

I think as a new player to TSC it can feel really overwhelming and to be honest I think it takes time to build up your collection. Unless you have a few thousand to spare chances are you'll need to wait for sales etc. but there's some fun and anticipation around this too.
If you're tempted, buy some of the old TSC XXXX from your favoured CD-Key site and just try out some basic routes to start. If you like that, getting the AP weather and vegetation enhancement packs will already level up your game by a significant amount.

Having a timetable mode would be great but there are also plenty of vanilla scenarios on Steam Workshop which can be downloaded at the click of a button

 

Buy Train Simulator 2015 Standard Edition Steam Key GLOBAL - Cheap - G2A.COM!

Just over £2 on G2A. Anyone on the fence should consider getting cheap TS keys, it's worth a shot.

 

The same reason as to why I moved to TSC, I am tired for short cut routes but fanboys and DTG keep making lazy excuses as to why they struggle making long routes. I still want to invest in TSW just so I could have a version that I can catch up to date with.

 

I have thought about TSC but graphically its just not there for me, its like going back to FSX/P3D... and while I can afford the enhancement packs to at least lightly polish the game as an Aussie vs the GBP they are mighty steep and will probably end up in divorce court with that much of an expenditure :P ...But the short of it is no TT is the killer for me with free roam as while I enjoy driving its the ability to park up and train spot at the differing locations when using a full serviced modded TT is brilliant!

But then again graphically TSW can be a bit bland in areas and lack detail, especially when it comes to landscaping, rivers, waterways, watermasking and roads...point in case the run beside the Reuss IMO is pretty poor vs reality and should be so much better graphically being we can see it from the drivers seat...Im sure thats not the only one but its the one that comes to mind first

 

One of the good sides. Completely unrelated, driving a steam locomotive or for example a Class 55 for 4+ hours up the ECML or WCML must not have been comfy. Thanks for letting me know.

 

That's great, thanks.

 

You are absolutely right. Not to mention that the stretch from MKC to BNS is more interesting than Euston to MKC, in my opinion. The route isn't that short, but the route would defenitely benefit from an extension, even if it was paid (even if it was the full price for a route):

- We need to be able to drive the Pendolino longer distances.
- We could get 2hr long LNWR services;
- The Northampton loop;
- The double track section for AWC services that skip Northampton;
- An appropriate that doesn't end at the saddest place on earth, but rather at the place with the stupidest accent .

 

Agreed, plus they already have Birmingham New Street modelled for the correct time period so that’s one major 3D task not to worry about. And you could argue the OG route should have gone to Northampton anyway as a major service break point and depot for the 350 fleet.

 

I do feel like DTG lack cohesion in areas! Take the new S-bahn as the example, Since its what we've all been discussing recently, its going to be a DLC that through their route hopping joins multiple DLCs, so technically you are going to be able to route hop your way through a lot of track, while that is great the issue I take with that, is that none of the TTs across the DLCs will align! Lets take Linke Rheinstrecke out of it as its not the same time period for rolling stock and scenery (though they could bring that up to modern day scenery with some Station upgrades to existing assets and now use the station they have developed for Mainz ) but the rest, you could complete S-bahn Wiesbaden to Frankfurt route hop to FTF basically what you see on arrival will mirror to dep +/- a couple of minutes, Go to Fulda and same again for the Kassel - Wurzburg...
For me I don't want all these linear routes, I want variation but if we cant have it in one DLC, at least join them up and align them with the TT so we get a sense that they are .. On top of this I wish they would put thought into their DLCs and stop pulling lines up short where they can join with others since they do have "route hopping", they could have joined FTF from Hanau with one of the routes that go from Aschaffenburg as an example, they didn't and I find that frustrating as once again we could have covered a lot of track on "one TT" thanks to route hopping if they extended!

 

Who knows? Steam locomotives and Deltics do make for a much better drive than these boring modern units in a simulator though Hopefully one day DTG will get back on steam and we can get some more variety in the game, TSW desperately needs it as this constant feed of modern content is extremely tedious now.

At least we have JT putting out BR content!

 

We also need some 80/90s EMU slam door action too!

 

I want this!

This is really the only slam door train I’m familiar with as a child.

 

I could be wrong but I think Just trains is kind of your only hope on the slam door as they seem to be geared towards trains of the past (unless another 3rd party does), where DTG (I think Matt mentioned somewhere in on of the S-Bahn threads) that they are pushed t create more towards modern..

 

It was posted in the Thomas reskin thread, reproduced above for clarity.

 

Absolutely agreed. I would say that if it went to Northampton, where would AWC services stop? But some services don't even stop at MKC!

I saw some comment saying that Euston - Watford Junction was enough... Unless they like 15 minute 390 services, I don't think it is! Unless the route was centered around the Watford DC Line.

 

Absolutely.

The 55 is one of my most wished-for trains, much better than a 47 reskin (+ minor model adjustments). Altough, perhaps we could get Newcastle to Edinburgh with the Class 55! Or a IC225, but I could never decide between both... regardless, the Flying Scotsman would layer in.

And speaking of Scotsman, am I the only one that finds all steam engines except for the Scotsman extremely low quality and unenjoyable to drive? I love doing the Scotsman rail tour service in the overshap route, and I absolutely never play Spirit of Steam.

 

Alan Thomson Sim released a Northampton loop extension for the route - quite nicely done I might add.

 

For the TSW5 route? Where can I find this !?

 

I meant the TS route, sorry. Should have read the earlier posts before I commented.

 

This is not true. The community updates old routes (especially the German community). You "just" have to download them from Railsim, ATS or wherever and have all the requirements.

 

The physics in TSW is light years ahead of TSC. I could never go back.

1. The adhesion simulation in TSC is seriously flawed, the more the train (excluding loco) weighs, the lower the adhesion becomes on the locomotive. That is very wrong (hopefully I don't need to explain why)
2. Iirc (it's been like 4 years since I played TSC) dynamic braking only worked on the lead locomotive, not the rear so if you wanted correct multiple traction you had to hack it by increasing the brake force on the lead loco.
3. TSC doesn't model the brake pipe, only a simple "air" simulation on the lead locomotive. Simugraph models all units in the formation and each component inside each wagon (which can be wrong if the developer has not implemented the correct setup, but most rolling stock since Dresden-Nahverker has prototypical, or near-prototypical, air brake setup). All the "realistic" addons to TSC have to hack this by slowing down how fast the locomotive brake applies based on train length.
4. TSC lacks most rolling resistance and drag physics that TSW/Simugraph has.
5. With the way Simugraph works it even allows much more sophisticated simulation like thermal simulation of engines and motors and with some minor hacks thermal simulation of other components.

There are some good addons to TSC that try to basically work around/hack the physics to make it do what Simugraph does natively, but it falls short because certain things are simply not possible even with essentially re-doing the physics inside lua-scripts.

TSW has some core limitations as well, but the difference is night and day.

 

The main appeal of TSC at this point is probably the easy to use route editor with its ability to upload to the Workshop (assuming no custom or non Steam DLC content referenced) and of course the simulation of steam traction. However for some reason I still can’t bring myself to reinstall on the main PC, not and sacrifice SimRail or Run 8. So while I might be a bit in the doldrums about TSW due to the poor experience thus far with FSN and the wider bugs DTG seem incapable of fixing or in the case of QOL implementing, it’s probably going to hang around a bit longer. Just need to be very selective about what I buy and never, ever Day One anything, ever again.

 

I am a recent convert to TSW after years of trucking in ETS/ATS. I bought a lot of TSW routes and trains discounted and have picked up some newer ones over the last 9 months or so. I then got a bit disillusioned with the choppiness. I got TSC very cheap on a sale and a lot of DLC in a recent steam sale. Wow. OK it lacks some aspects of TSW but for me, the amount of UK content and the lack of graphic stutter is wonderful. I had a great drive on the Wherry Lines earlier - such a beautiful little route. I dont miss being able to wander up and down the train. I just drive.

 

Actually, for the "normal" player I doubt that the route editor is the main appeal of TSC. Your second point seems to be more correct if we generalize it: It's the loco and route variety. Though a *lot* of TSC (payware) locos are way inferior to TSW locos, the difference is the quantitative amount of available stock.

Also of course the route variety is still bigger. But that comes with a big hurdle: The base for the route variety argument is freeware routes. For them, you have to own 1. a lot of payware and 2. download huge amount of assets from equally as many websites while a few of the links in the readme's don't even work anymore. It takes lots and lots of hours (and money) to grow your collection with freeware routes.
And there are people who did this over the years, playing TSC for a long time. But i can't see anyone in 2025 starting with TSC and investing this amount of ressources into it. Exceptions provee the rule.

 

Oh I gave up with the great resource hunt after downloading, I think it was, the freeware Southampton to Weymouth route. A horrendous list of dependencies to acquire, all from different sites and I’m sure not all without some misleading ad click links for the unwary.

I still have TSC uninstalled due to lack of HD space, currently wondering how in might run off an external HD via USB.

 

I'd actually say the third party steam locomotives in TSC are a lot better than TSW's as they are currently. I do agree that Simugraph could change that, but it requires DTG to go back and improve what they started with Spirit of Steam and Peak Forest.

I jumped onto TS Classic around 2022 and noticed all the cool third party stuff. Looked at the requirements and costs, have to say it is overwhelming with no good place to start. In the end, I decided it wasn't worth it. Why pay extra to bring TS Classic closer to TSW when TSW is right there? I prefer the current approach that all content is sold on the official storefronts, it no longer means going around various third party sites that look like they want to steal your bank details

 

My advice to anyone thinking of dipping into TSC is; pick your area and pick your era.

In order to free-up some disk space I decided recently to remove all content that wasn't in the UK and some DB routes that aren't in TSW. I've built up this collection over 15 years and I have so much that I've never really used or tried and wasn't impressed with.

So have a think about an area of the UK For example, I favour the Eastern and Southern regions. Then think about whether you want fairly modern or another era. Then stick to that little nitch. Otherwise you'll be overwhelmed by DLC you'll never use and also watch out for duplicate products on Steam and through TP websites. Sometimes the TP website versions are better but need more payware that you may not have. Steam website DLC for TSC works out of the box.

 

Whats all this talk about Diskspace??? You can buy countless expensive TSW DLC, but can´t afford a new SSD? They are not that expensive.

 

I still play TSC because there are plenty of Japanese routes, whereas there are 0 routes in TSW right now. European and North American routes, I only play it on TSW.

 

I've already done that. I've got 12TB at my disposal but TSC and TSW don't even take up a third of that. I have other hobbies. Ripping CDs so they are CD quality when I play them takes up a huge space. Films also.

I don't do subscriptions for media and the arts because I like to actually own my collection. And what's the point of taking up disk space with things I'm not using?

 

In my case not much point adding another hard drive to my existing PC when I’m planning to change it later in the year. Well I could take the drives out the old PC and add to the new one. Also toying with getting an external HD, a 2Tb (non SSD) is around £60 but not sure how TSC would run off it.

The other big problem with TSC is it’s very hard to triage unwanted content once installed, due to the files system, unlike TSC where you just untick the DLC and delete the pak file.

 

Even if you have usb 3.0 Your TSC loading time will feel like an eternity!
Actually I moved TSC to the internal spinner a while back and the loading time felt like eternity compared to SSD.

 

Out of interest, what USB port types does your computer have? Mine has 4 USB 2.0 ports which are fine for peripherals, two USB 3.0 ports and one USB 3.2 Gen 1 port. 3.2 Gen 1 is significantly faster than USB 3.0, but I have a mega hard drive plugged into it so I doubt it's taking advantage of the full speed. Either way, an internal hard drive or SSD would be better - I'd go for an SSD because even if it's plugged into SATA rather than an M.2 port it'll still be more than fast enough for TS.

 

Not sure, think at least one possibly two are 3.0.

The thing is, I would need to get an external HD anyway if I do replace the PC as there’s too much to take over on a thumb drive, so was basically considering it as a pro tem solution to my storage capacity issues.

 

The USB 3.0 speed is too limiting to use for gaming I think. I have a 4TB USB hard drive (it's a full size one which requires a separate power lead, so it isn't one of those low-power ones that are terminally slow) which is only useful for storing files and some very lightweight games. Mind you that's plugged into the 3.2 Gen 1 port on my computer. Personally I'd use an external HD to transfer files between the computers. If you use Steam's move game files function then it'll be pretty much plug-and-play on the other computer once you copy the files back over. Often it's faster to copy games to and from a USB hard drive than downloading them from scratch, so you could keep TS on the main drive (the countless third party files and patches mean your install wouldn't end well being moved by Steam) and swap SimRail and TSW between the main drive and the USB drive.

While I don't know the ins and outs of your computer, I would recommend using WinDirStat to check for any large files and folders you haven't used in a while - I saved loads of space using it.

 

Out of curiosity then, how would you regard to physics of, 1. Run 8 and 2. Zusi 3 in comparison to what TSW can offer via Simugraph?

My personal opinion is that Run 8 is maybe a bit overrated when it comes to physics fidelity despite the reputation.
Zusi 3 I haven’t really played enough, due to the lack of a save game, to form an opinion.

 

I haven't played Zusi very much so I can't speak about it confidently. Run8 I have played quite a lot years back, but I have no special knowledge about the physics engine in either of these simulators so I'll speak from a player perspective.

Run8 has quite good brake physics imo, while the engine simulation of the locomotives is less impressive (not bad by any means, just not super accurate and you can do crazy things with the locomotives if you try). Things like coupler breakage really adds to the immersion and challenge as well, which is something I really appreciated.

The hotbox/dragging equipment faults I assume are just random events rather than caused by complex simulations (like if you brake too hard/too long you increase the likelihood of a hot axle) but I could be wrong on that. The DPU control is also a key feature, but there's nothing stopping DTG or another party from implementing that in TSW

Regarding Zusi3, and restricting myself to the publicly available version, from my understanding there seems to be a lot of community feedback/input on the physics, which is really cool but may imply that the physics isn't super accurate (obviously real world driver input can be really useful but you do need solid empirical data to actually get good physics).

Generally speaking, if I were to guess, Simugraph is more sophisticated/deep in terms of the simulation because of how it is designed where you can essentially simulate every component in the locomotive (engines/motors, transformers, different kinds of air distributors etc) but this requires that the developer has access to highly detailed references which often do not exist or are hard to get access too. If you do have access to this data you can really achieve great results.

The way Simugraph works can make it easier to simulate, to a great level of detail, many complicated systems because you either have a model of the component you want to simulate already made, or you can sort of build it up from simpler components in a much quicker way than if you had to write all the code from the ground up. You'll probably still need to do a lot of scripting/programming to get it "perfect". The BR101 Expert for example has a huge amount of scripting (both inside and outside of Simugraph), which shouldn't be too suprising when you take into account that the real locomotive has computers controlling all the systems.

However, and this is the important part: to the player it doesn't matter how sophisticated the internals are, all that matters is if the locomotive behaves as expected. For example, you could have an almost 1-1 representation of the internals of the locomotive but with incorrect quantities (like wrong pressures, rigging ratios, resistance in motor windings etc) and end up with nonsense physics.

TLDR: Simugraph can make it easier to simulate certain complex systems, or more "sophisticated" physics like thermal simulation/air braking, but it's very much garbage in-garbage out.