So watched a video of the new military cargo pack. Why have they put it into whole new timetable like they did with the intermodal pack.
Seriously? I got it for Intermodal on WCML South given that there was already intermodal on the original timetable but not for a new cargo and especially not for GWE given we're waiting on an updated timetable for this route already.
For WCMLOS thats understandable, but it doesnt explain GWE. It would be bearable if progress copied over, but after volume 3's didnt I dont hold up much hope that will be the case? Hopefully when Liams updated timetable comes out it includes these as well.
Wcml os just seems pointless to add a whole new timetable for a dozen or so jobs. I know they had no choice but a bit annoying. And makes now sense for gwe at the moment.
I was watching one of the ambassadors playing it and the GWE services slot into the existing timetable
I think I'm gonna get this one, primarily because it's something different and it's pulled by the 47 on Preston-Carlisle in scenario AND timetable. Presently there's not really much "freight" that's not 87 pulled and that's just not my thing. It's worth it to be able to enjoy the Just Trains route more.
Oh despite my disappointment over yet another timetable, I'll definitely be getting this tomorrow, its a no-brainer to me. I've enjoyed every single cargo lines pack released to date and I'm sure this will be no different.
I haven't bought the pack yet, but is the WCMLOS timetable in the pack identical to the default one, other than the addition of the Warwell services? My concern is that when the 86 pack comes out the CL4 timetable won't have it, which is a big issue.
I'm satisfied with it. It's what it says on the tin. You can always want more, but on the other hand it's relatively cheap and well done for what it is. I enjoy having something lengthy to drive the 47 on over Shap. Such a huge difference in the 47 and 66 pulling the same loads across the two routes. I don't know if there'll be an 86 issue. To be fair I don't like the 87 so didn't look. It looks mostly the same on a cursory glance, but I didn't go run by run to look. I know the AI rolling stock includes lots of 86s passing and on sidings when in timetable. Few 101s kicking around too shuttling back and forth.
I bought the pack. I am shocked - not only is this the first Cargo Line pack that I think it's worth buying, it's one of the extremely limit number of TSW DLCs that I think is worth the full price. The sound issue with the empty variant is annoying, but other than that it's a pretty great pack that crucially adds something entirely new to the game. The CLv4 timetable is seemingly identical to the default one. I reckon that this includes the Class 86 services, which I assume are already in the base timetable but are yet to be activated. Incorrect
Good news then =-) I'm guessing the 86 will be mostly interchangeable with what are 87 runs now? Again, don't know if it'll be usable on the military ones because those are led by a Class 47.
It was confirmed by Skyhook games in the Coming Soon thread that the Class 86 will not be available in the CL4 Shap timetable. The Class 86 will only be available in the original Shap timetable that does not include CL4. What we do not yet know is if CL4 will be present in the GWE remaster timetable, or if any of the cargo packs will carry over.
Ah - that's a dealbreaker then. I would have assumed that the hidden 86 services would have copied over from the base timetable. I've refunded the pack, unfortunately. It's a massive and frankly idiotic mistake, and now I would recommend that other people wait until a sale to get it. Annoyingly I uploaded a highly positive review to YouTube just before I learnt about it.
Seems a bit drastic, but whatever makes you happy. I'm not going to stop having fun with it over a loco that isn't even calendared for release yet.
The Class 86 is a crucial part of the route and once it is released there will be no reason to not have it installed. There's no point in having a timetable that has either the Class 86 or a Warwell; that's a bit like the ECML route getting a Class 91 as a DLC but a wagon pack released around the same time not having it in its custom timetable. If you can come up with a good reason for the 86 not being in the timetable, do tell me. I assumed that the 86 services are already in WCMLoS but have not been activated - as is common practise for TSW routes with future DLCs planned. Either they're not, which would be surprising, or Skyhook manually removed them from the timetable. Some clarification from someone who knows would be nice. Ultimately the question is, if you had to pick between the Class 86 and the Warwells, there isn't much of a debate to be had. For those looking for an ultimate 80s route in TSW, everything should be together for the sake of quantity and variety.
One of the problems is that this has been discussed over several threads, so it is hard to get all the information in one place. I will try to summarize from my understanding, based primarily on what Skyhook themselves have said: JT did not allow SHG to place CL4 onto the original timetable. So, SHG created a new timetable, which apparently is pretty much the same except you get the new military services (why JT made this decision is unknown). On the other hand, the CL4 timetable was made before the 86 was available, so SHG were unable to include it, and it won't be added even after the 86 gets released. However, we should also note that the 86 and the new wagons it comes with do not add any new services to the original Shap timetable, either; as per JT, it will "take over" on some of the existing services, but that it all. It is unfortunate that the 86 and CL4 will not be seen together. For me, I know that once I get the 86, that is all I will want to drive (or see) on Shap, so there is no point in buying CL4 where Shap is concerned because I will never use that timetable. If CL4 gets used for the GWE remaster, and that layer appears on Series S, then I will consider it. My personal feeling is that none of these cargo packs will make it to the new GWE timetable, but that is just a guess. I will be pleasantly surprised if they are present.
I see, thank you for the clarification. From this, I suppose that the alterations to the timetable to accommodate the 86 will come when that DLC releases. If the 86 slotted into the default timetable using standard substitution, then it would in theory work on the CL4 timetable if they're as close as I assume they are. I guess all we can hope for now is for some legend to make a timetable mod for PC that has both of them together. And if that happens, hopefully there could be some more services for the 20. It's among the best trains in TSW but is woefully underused.
Because it's already in a timetable for the route and it doesn't pull warwagons? The reason it's not in the original table is that Just Trains denied Skyhook access to their product, and while unstated directly it was hinted that this is why the 86 wasn't in the Military Cargo pack too. I'm not willing to blame Skyhook for Just Trains' refusal for access. Honestly I don't even fault Just Trains for their desire to keep their code secure either. It's a minor thing that has very little to no impact in game terms. Rejecting the whole pack for such a minor thing seems silly to me, but again if that makes you happier to boycott then go ahead. For me... the best I can find (albeit limited resources available) is that the Royal Army used Class 47s to move military vehicles in the 1980s (probably because you could use them anywhere, including non-electrified places) and well, because the 47 was used all over the place anyway so it was common. Therefore it's accurate in my book. Now you can WANT to drive a Class 86 with the military stock and you CAN do that in free roam, but I don't see that it happened enough to be put into a timetable like that anyway. If it's not historically accurate and it's not allowed by JT, it's really not fair to "blame" Skyhook. Now what you COULD focus on asking is...what about GWE? Will the 86 be on the GWE? The Class 66 runs there with those wagons and the GWE is not controlled by Just Trains so DTG controls that timetable and you could drive an 86 in theory there... if Just Trains allows it. They're the one that would be allowing or disallowing the 86 on the GWE and in what capacity. With a GWE remaster coming up, that could still be in the works with THAT new timetable under DTG control. Make a suggestion to include that maybe? I don't know if the 86 was a regular thing on the GWE though.
I’m sorry but to me this is completely unacceptable situation where 2 child DLC (presumably) released close together, can’t be seen on the same timetable. JT may have the right to refuse SHG to layer onto their timetable, but ultimately the customer experience is detrimentally affected by this decision. Hopefully a modder will release a timetable encompassing both DLC although this will only benefit PC players.
I have seen other diesels in pictures hooked up to the KWAs in photos, but not carrying heavier vehicles and mostly in railyards so they could just have been used as shunters (Class 8, Class 20), and not in the numbers you get in the pack (20 trailers I think at once) so I can see why a Clas 37 might struggle if you substituted it. The Class 47 would just be what you would have seen irl. Not having been trainspotting in the Preston-Carlisle area in the 1980s I can't say for sure. A positive thing is that the trailers themselves date back to World War 2, so they'd fit on ANY route in game easily well. You could even put them on SOS or PFR and they'd fit in easily. Okay....well maybe not when loaded. MRAPs only date back about 15 years in common use. APCs like the generic one included though.... that'd fit anywhere back to the 1960s.
I share your sentiment. This also raises some interesting questions, such as why SHG didn't just release CL4 for some other route (MML?) rather than Shap. The conspiracy minded might also guess that the reason the 86 is still not released has something to do with CL4. After all, how likely would it be that, after you just bought the 86 and were enjoying driving it and seeing it as AI, with its new wagons, you would then spend money on yet another DLC, just to get an additional timetable where you will be literally guaranteed to not see or use the 86 that you just spent money for? The particularly suspicious could even take this further and wonder about the the timing for the release of GWE remastered. After all, if CL4 came out after GWE remastered, but only worked with the original GWE, how many people would be interested in CL4 then?
Makes me wonder why CL4 was released before the 86, if they will both appear (albeit separately) on the same route.
I have to say, whilst I'm sure JT have their reasons for not allowing Skyhook to put the Cargo Line services into their original timetable, it seems pretty stupid to me to have three timetables where one has the 86, one the Cargo Line and the other neither.
I know its ridiculous im sure they had reasons. Thats why i didn't buy it i dont want all them timetables just a dozen or so jobs. Plus im sure if that will eat up more memory with the extra timetables.
bb Timetables take up very minimal memory to be honest, for example the OTS WCML timetable takes up 45KB. My biggest annoyance is that I've invested £33 on WCMLOS, £10 on CL4 (without including any of the other DLC which layer on) and now JT expect me to drop a further £20 on the Class 86 despite it adding zero services to route and then I'm told that I cant have the CL4 and the Class 86 run on the same time table? Sorry, but I was already hesitant in purchasing the Class 86 given the limited additional game play, this has pushed me to decide that the 86 won't be a day 1 purchase and it can wait until either a modder fixes the issue (and it really shouldn't be down to modders to provide a solution what seems like a political decision not to allow SHG games to include on the original t/timetable) or a massive discount in a forthcoming sale. Im also less likely to buy the CL5 pack or anything from either company at full price again. DTG as publisher need to sit down with all 3rd parties (not just SHG & JT) and find a compromise which works for everyone with no detriment to the player experience, because if they dont/cant I can see more and more issues like this occurring and the customer being the one to lose out time and time again.
Yes it is becoming quite the expensive proposition isn't it? And then of course when you do spend the money, you rightly expect these DLC to play nice with each other. Plus we are starting to see a trend where the layers are becoming an all-or-nothing affair; even if you are missing just one DLC, nothing will unlock until you buy everything. We see this not only on Shap but BOW as well. And even then, after you've bought "everything," it can just be taken away, as several of the layers for Series S were taken away from Shap, never mind if you had bought and paid for the whole experience. At this point I can't blame anyone for hiding their wallets and taking more of a wait and see approach before buying anything. Day 1 purchases seem especially risky.
It's not very 'military' now, is it. No tanks, no AFV's, no howitzers. Just a bunch of generic pretend c r a p. It's a 'participation trophy' dlc as far as I'm concerned. Oh wait, it's designed to be non-offensive right? Load of cancel-culture tosh. Best advice I can give is "Wait for a 90%-off 'sale'".
I lost it when you went on your tangent about driving the 86 on the GWML. I'm not sure how that's relevant in the slightest. I'm not asking to use the Class 86 to pull the Warwells. What I want is for both the Class 86 pack and Cargo Line V4 to be applied to one timetable (not even the default one) at the same time. The solution is for Skyhook to copy the default timetable after the 86 releases, then re-add the Warwell services into that new timetable. Of course, because it requires work to be done, it won't happen.
You might not have an issue with being told despite paying £30 for a couple of add ons for a £33 route that you won’t be able use them at the same time but others do. Maybe in the future when a similar issue occurs the roles will reverse and it will be you complaining. JT/SHG are hurting both of their products sales with this situation, the experience is being reduced and personally for the first purchase since probably West Cornwall I have genuine buyers remorse over CL4 and feel that I’ve wasted money buying a DLC I’m going to get little use and enjoyment from. It’s left a bitter taste in my mouth and I feel like TSW is treating its customers with contempt, and not a single party from DTG through to the 3rd parties give a care about the customer experience as long as enough of us buy on day 1 at full price. Well news flash for DTG this sucker is getting off the train and CL4 will be the last full price DLC I purchase for TSW and the Class 86 will now be left on the shelf, as will other upcoming releases. This is the final straw that broke my back.
