June Roadmap Discussion

I figured I would make this thread since there isn't a discussion thread for the new roadmap.

It's disappointing we didn't get any news for the AAS route, and no release date for the Class 86. The CL5 looks great but I would like branding. The E94 pack doesn't fail to amaze me. The HSP64 pack and the KWG Expert 101 pack are both, in my eyes, a cashgrab. MAC seems to be going well.

 

Putting the tin foil hat on for a moment. The HSP64 pack and Expert 101 pack are definitely cash grabs with seemingly zero genuine work done to them. No new stock features, no particularly promoted upgrades, nothing. Could these be the last things to come out from this list, and exist to just fill the gap to the release of TSW6?

Okay, tin hat coming off now...

The branding on the 20 is a confusing one. Clearly DRS were more than willing to allow it on the Class 66, so why is it absent here? Did they just not want to have branding shown on a class depicting stock they no longer use? I guess in that way it would be akin to Avanti only wanting the game to feature their newest refit of the 390 rather than the older condition, they want their image to be represented fully up to date. I wonder then if this would have been different had the pack featured a 37 or a 57 which they do still use.

The 86 pack feels at this point like there has been a delay. No new article for it when really they have already shown and gone in detail with everything about it, and no release date this long after its news article. I can't say I understand their silence about it though. My one theory about it is that perhaps they are having to do additional work to feature the Cargo Line Military contents in the 86 timetable, since obviously a new timetable is required to properly swap out the 86s and MK2 Aircons into their appropriate places.

On the MAC subject, I think a lot of people are over the 323 issue now considering that it genuinely is prototypical for the route, and if we didn't want the 323 with it then we really couldn't have the route at all. At least though the 323 gets the full suspension and guard mode treatment. Also containing a not insignificant length of Manchester's WCML spur does introduce some good timetable potential, and I get the impression that this is what people are more focused on now.

And finally the E94 just seems amazing on all fronts. The Krokodil on Mittenwaldbahn has already been a joy to drive, and having two new variants of it will be great. Plus, let's not forget that it's coming with a totally revamped 80s timetable for LFR making use of the contents of every historic German route to date.

 

Certainly some stranger additions to the roadmap this time around. The Kassel and Boston gameplay packs certainly seem like they could have been timetable updates down the line instead. - Also, I‘m sure the Expert 101 will give problems on Consoles

 

HSP46 pack is a literally cashgrab (even more so for me who owns boston-worcester)
will save my money for santa fe gameplay pack

 

Boston definitely needs a new timetable as even before the signalling fixes made by Brandon most services where impossible to keep time to with safety systems on. As long as this pack includes that I’m happy to support with my wallet, less so if it just subs onto the existing timetable with no fixes.

Expert 101 - Whilst TSG are a dev I love to support however SKW is one boring route IMO so in 2 minds over this.

E94 - definitely peaking my interest and will provide new gameplay and I understand profits will go to supporting the real life locos preservation which I’m more than happy to contribute to!

CL5 - it’s modern(ish) freight that isn’t a class 66 so winner. But I’ll echo the sentiments about it being unbranded, although an unbranded pack is better than no pack so if this was the only way it’s the only way.

Manchester Airport - a mid week and a Sunday timetable. How busy is a Sunday on this route? Does the traffic really justify the time spent creating the timetable?

JT 142 and 86 will be left on the shelf. The 86 doesn’t offer value for money in terms of additional game play and the 142 is on a route I just don’t love enough to justify spending my limited game time on.

 

I couldnt agree less At least for the Expert 101 I am super happy that we get something like this! Knowing the people behind this I just know it is going to be worth every penny. Just reading the article, seeing the pictures with a written order on the dash of the loco will make it all worth while.

These kind of packs are made for people like me, who are genuinly interesten in real world rail operations. Therfore, its clear that it is not for everybody, but calling it a "definitive cash grab" seems a bit unjustified, in my eyes.

 

I’m getting rather burnt out on all these gameplay packs. I get that they’re an easier to make alternative than locos and/or routes for the various teams involved, but feel like we’re swamped with them at the moment and few seem worth the asking price for me at least.

 

To me, adding a static paper on a locomotive doesn't look worth it. If it's 3€ I guess I will buy it.

 

Exactly! I am done with it. At least we have the freedom to not buy them.

 

I'll be looking carefully at prices for all these products to see if they add sufficient value to the existing routes.

It seems, in some cases at least, that it's an easy way to make money, but we'll see.

Don't have any interest in the MAC electric bus service commuter route.

I guess we can kiss goodbye to the 104 and Peak Forest add on.

 

I see it as a first step. It is clear its not something we will see in a time table for the foreseable future, which would be the ultimate goal for me, but I would think that those kind of packs are gradually expanding the envelope, especially with dedicated people like the ones from TSG. One small step is also a step and I am all in...

 

Low hanging fruit comes to mind. Or has the talent to produce decent quality new motive power drifted away from the title?

 

Do you guys know what the next release will be

 

They don't say release dates on the roadmaps. They do it on dedicated release articles. I believe that we are getting the 86 first, at least I hope so. Probably within June.

 

I am beginning to believe that it did.

 

Very vanilla roadmap over the last few months... I'm glad JTs 86 and the ATS route will be out soon, but with how particularly bland the last roadmaps have been I'm not even absorbed or that invested in the game that much, and nor do I have the hype I did a few years back.

There's been one or two interesting things (completely subjective to the individual I am aware) over the last 6 months, but overall nothing of much interest this month as there was last month...

What's even happened to the Fife Circle 158 update?!

The GWE remaster seems to still be in TBC, which for me is probably the content I've been anticipating the most outside of the 86 and ATS route.

 

Exaclty, these new packs are just filler for TSW6 in my eyes.

 

In this year's triple gameplay pack release, the German one was having a BR 111 and N-Wagen replace the Doppelstock on Frankfurt - Fulda. The BR 111 is a well made class, one of DTG's best if I'm not mistaken. The N-Wagen was also an item requested for years before it actually surfaced. This pack swapped these into the timetable and that is it. No new services. No upgrades. No new features in the stock themselves. Just a straight cut and paste of the exact same models we'd already had available for years at the time, swapped in place of timetable services that already existed.

I ask you - where is the effort in that? Where is the workmanship and the personal value in a copy and pasted train subbed into a timetable that is identical to the original? Please enlighten me, because I don't see it.

The 101 gameplay pack does look to be reworking some stuff in the timetable. While it doesn't appear that the passenger services themselves will be any more or less frequent, the timetable does seem to be backdated with the 101s comprising more of the services overall, which is at least something. Additional services from other sources and the reworked freight, as well as the AI services on other lines that they mentioned, do make this a gameplay pack which does seem to add something of value. It is certainly a step beyond the 111 gameplay pack, and one which I would and probably will actually pay for, depending on how much it actually costs.

On the other hand, the HSP46 gameplay pack absolutely is a soulless cash grab and I highly doubt anyone can be told otherwise. It is exactly the 111 all over again. No mention of new services or experiences, no mention of new features to the trains themselves. Just one loco (they haven't even mentioned the double decker coaches yet) copy and pasted from one route into another to just sub into the services that already exist. Yes I recognise that it should be there anyway, but the train already exists. Enabling the HSP46 we already have to simply substitute in would be an easy and totally free switch - we have already paid £30 to have this train. But taking it out and deciding to charge for it again, when all that is included is the loco itself? That is the cash grab. They might as well just add a button that reads "Substitution for this loco is available, pay £5 to unlock." Would we be happier with this option? Because when you remove the cover of it being a "new" gameplay pack, that is exactly what the Frankfurt Fulda 111 and Boston Providence HSP46 are doing.

 

maybe br194/e94 pack will come first

 

As you are quoting me, it sounds like you are asking me to enlighten you. Now, I can’t! I was specifically not talking about the Br111 pack from DTG. In fact, I would tend to agree with your statements about this specific pack. I was talking about stuff especially coming from dedicated teams that push the boundaries for all of us…

 

By the same token, you quoted my post talking about both the 101 and HSP46, but gave a response based on only half of that statement. Like I said, I agree that the 101 pack is in fact a good example of what a gameplay pack can and should be, I gave a whole paragraph about this. Ultimately when it comes to the 101 specifically, and I recognise that you are likely a German focused player so have little regard for the HSP46 anyway, I totally agree that this pack does have value.

I find it hard to believe that TSG would sell the expert 101 twice, and so I believe that this pack might actually just be a timetable that requires the expert 101 be owned first, much like that recent Thomas anniversary thing. In which case it's not so much specifically an expert 101 expansion so much as it is a backdated timetable for KWG which uses the expert 101, in which case fair play that's actually a good idea for a gameplay pack and something which really should be considered going forward for a lot of routes. Gameplay packs which are actually just revised timetables, utilising layering from other packs as their main focus. Addons aimed at the collectors, not the newcomers...

Wait a minute... didn't we already have this? For free? I'm looking at the WSR remaster's steam timetable, the GWE remaster's new timetable, the Koln - Aachen timetable...

Make of that what you will.

 

Maybe it’s a language thing, then, as I was specifically only quoting you in regards to the 101 and also only talked about this one pack and TSG… I am absolutely not qualified what so ever to talk about any US gameplay packs. You may very well be right with your analysis about this one as well, just like with the Br111.

 

I mean, "26 more playable services and over 1200 new AI services" in service mode (plus many changes to services that already existed) and "Five new expert level scenarios" (emphasis mine) doesn't sound like nothing to me.

No need to believe anything, it actually says so right there in the road map article.

1) These were made by very generous people in their free time. Doesn't mean you can expect everyone to do everything for free.

2) You're already getting a big update including a free new Expert timetable (Bremen - Oldenburg) and a new livery.

 

Looks like the Peak Forest related DLC is utterly dead. No mention of it at all.

 

Wasn't very good roadmap

 

A minor correction, the Bremen-Oldenburg Expert timetable was already released last year. However, the next patch for the BR101 will bring the Mannheim Kaiserslautern Expert timetable. This patch should be released either concurrently with the gameplay pack or before, since the gameplay pack depends on some changes like the added "Notbremse" alarm on the BR101 and cab car (which in the latter is really cool sounding imo) and also the Main Reservoir continuity test switch used in one of the scenarios iirc.

 

You missed my paragraphs where I actually agreed that the 101 pack was not a cash grab.

While I agree on the value of the 101 pack and will probably buy it myself, on this subject I have to say that consistency is key. You can't expect to do something several times for free, then expect to just say "You have to pay for this one this time" and not expect people to have a problem with it. It's exactly the same as people complaining about pricing increases without a valid increase in product quality or contents.

Now that being said, I specified the Koln - Aachen timetable, WSR and GWE examples as they are the ones which were free. The LIRR timetable and remaster was paid for by buying the new expanded edition featuring the M9. The Cathcart timetable update was accessed by buying the Class 380, and its remaster funded by this release. The Boston - Providence update was funded by the Acela. The Nahverker Dresden update was funded by the Vectron. The SEHS expansion was funded by the release of TSW3.

What I'm saying on that point is that there needs to be, and currently isn't, a standardised system for route/timetable remasters, so that people know what to expect with them. Should they always be paid or always be free? Should they try to always have a loco pack released alongside them to fund their development? The loco pack method seems to have thus far been the most successful, and even Liam seems to be following this approach with the release of his 3rd party HST heritage pack alongside the GWE remaster.

 

Getting beyond tedious now waiting for this Sprinter timetable for Fife Circle. The fact it doesn't even gets mentioned on the Roadmaps leads me to think it's been quietly binned.

Should that turn out to be the case DTG won't get another penny from me.

 

Well, there is a certain market in players like me who have Boston-Providence but not Boston-Worcester.

I'm more disturbed that this meager substitution pack plus some Santa Fe reskins are the ONLY US content in this roadmap. It seems American railroading is dead in the Train Sim world.

 

I wish the game had the support that games like ETS2 have. Beyond bored now. Seems to be no ambition to get the most out of the engine.
As usual it's the modders who save the day.

 

I'm not sure it was even worth posting that roadmap

 

After reading the Road Map write up, I did not even bother to watch the live stream.

 

Its 100% definitely time to go to a quarterly road map and then have specific streams announcing and discussing new DLC in the interim and perhaps a dev deep dive into bug fixing/issues.

And I mean absolutely no disrespect to Alex with this, but the main draw of the road map streams is to get answers from the Dev team, when Matt is unavailable (hope everythings gets sorted out for you Matt and your family) unless the likes of Lucas or someone can step in there is zero reason to watch what basically became a pointless marketing promo.

 

What does this even mean? Align to an update? It's been months. The lack of clarity is astounding at times

 

Believe this means release with an update in July

 

I think as a point regardless of what we think, we should say thank you to Alex for taking on this Roadmap single handedly. I think that you handled it superbly and take my hat off to you, as it isn't an easy task to do on your Jack Jones!

(I get anxious with public speaking in general let alone Infront of an audience of thousands!)

 

And the Santa Fe pack has been stagnant for the past few roadmaps, with nothing new to show off the past few months.

 

DTG is not related to this incident. The route is made by Rivet and the 158 by SHG.

 

Apart from Cargo line Volume 5 being Announced ( Nuclear Flasks) which i was very pleased the rest was rather disappointing Class 86 coming soon @ 19.99 Manchester Airport Commuter Coming still no release Date still no more news on GWE Re-mastered Hopefu;y by the end of the Decade they will have some more news on it nothing for now other that not much

 

The roadmap is to answer questions in general. Alex probably has some degree of information from the dev team and the third parties.

 

Generally I approve of back-layering via gameplay packs. The two routes wouldn't have been my priority, but I'm happy to chuck a few quid for a busier timetable, so I hope there's more.

 

While Kassel to Würzburg is a rather boring route once you ran it 4 to 5 times, i think the biggest factor making it boring is that you get the feel of all stations just being ghost towns.
Now with 1200 additional AI services and the addition of the ICE T, 193 FLX and the expert 101, i believe it has potential to be quite enjoyable.
Especially the scenarios seem to be nowhere comparable to the usual ones.
TSG always delivers and i dont think they made it only as a cash grab at all.

 

Games gone

 

I’ll enlighten you. The 111 and n-Wagen are both a much better drive than the trains that do those services in the original release, especially the Dosto cab car and the very poor included loco that just doesn’t work well. It’s so bad I’ve forgotten the class number as I never use it. This small pack more than doubled the value of the route for me and it was already a great route due to the variety of service layers. Of course some may say the 111 and n-Wagen should just be confined to the smallest number of routes but I am incredibly happy that they also have so many services on what is one of the best routes in the game. It’s one of the best value DLCs I’ve bought and it was only a few quid. The trains and the routes they appear on are important and this pack replaced some mediocre trains on a great route and made the services extremely enjoyable. I’m not bothered by how much effort it took to achieve just that it has provided me with hours of great driving that I otherwise would not have been able to do. Of the three gameplay packs this year it was the only decent one really and was actually worth the price of all three in the bundle on its own. I’ve had a small amount of use of the other two but have used this one extensively.

 

I was hoping to get some news regarding GWE remaster, but nothing and it isn't even in the 1 to 3 months slot. Yeah, it is starting to look like TSW6 now comes with GWE remastered.

 

Fellow US content enjoyer here. While I'm happy to see that the HSP46 is coming to Boston - Providence, as I really enjoy that route, along with the Boston - Worcester route, the roadmap announcement makes it seems as if the gameplay pack is required to have the HSP46 work onto Boston Providence, even if we already own Boston - Worcester, which IMO is an incredibly scummy and greedy way (though not surprising from DTG) of fixing something that should've already been fixed in the first place.

I'm really hoping that DTG offers more transparency regarding this announcement, otherwise, I'm sitting this gameplay pack out, and not going to waste my money.

 

I'll have to take your word for it as I have very little experience with the 111 myself. I've drove it a few times on Mittenwaldbahn and that's it.

Would you not say that necessary improvements in the quality of a train release which you have already paid for (potentially multiple times depending on what you own) should have been a free patch? The case could be made that since the addon didn't add any new timetable services and simply swapped the 111 into the Dostos place, you actually just paid for a patch which should have been provided to the original one to begin with. On the other hand while they may well have just been wagons, at least the National Power HKAs added new timetable services to WCML-S and a new livery and suspension physics to the wagons compared to the old GWE variants.

 

You are correct, it is basically paying to unlock the HSP46 on Boston-Providence.

Typical DTG.

 

and they didn't even mention if bilevels will be included, in other words, a cashgrab