I decided to open this thread because only seeing one type of intercity train (no hate to the ICMm) is getting a bit dull, and overall it slowly makes the route feel bland. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. This got me thinking about how this could be improved, and I'd suggest that Dovetail adds the DDZ as a loco add-on: In real life, this train also regularly runs on this route and would just add that bit of variety to the scenery as you're driving along this route. Other than that, it would be an amazing train to add, especially considering the DDZ is also slowly being phased out of service. The DDZ has both 4- and 6-car variants. Dovetail could easily include both, since there aren’t any different coaches between the versions—so they'd only need to make one 6-car and one 4-car version. I was wondering if other players also experience the same struggle of only seeing the ICMm (and SNG) on this route, and whether you would consider a loco add-on with the DDZ to be worth it.
I got bored with this route really quick same two trains and same jobs. Back and forth and some yard moves.
It’s a nice route and the trains are okay, though the ICM is a bit lacking in traction sound, but got to agree the experience was very linear and I haven’t returned to it as much as I thought I would. We know the reasoning behind the choice of route but I do wonder whether with hindsight a network route encompassing Rotterdam and Amsterdam would have had more legs. And it certainly looks as if DTG don’t have any plans in terms of follow up train DLC.
After the update I didn't really have this anymore, have you tried the ICMm after the update to its sounds?
If they created a more complex and busier route from the start with just 2 trains, it would be really empty and a lot more things can go wrong or they have to shorten the route. Then you would start complaining about those 2 things
As nice as the DDZ would be, personally I’d rather see the VIRM as an extra NS train - they’re easily the most common train type in the Netherlands. That being said, if there was a future Dutch route set in the Randstad area, the VIRM (and SLT) would be the perfect included rolling stock, so perhaps the DDZ would be the better choice as an extra train for Zwolle - Groningen after all.
I don't know if adding a new loco would enhance the gameplay.. Being from the Netherlands, I was looking forward to this route and I still love it and hope DTG will make more Dutch routes in the future.. But I think the problem is, that it is all to linear.. going from A to B and back again… no variety.. It's like we say in the Netherlands "een rondje om de kerk" a tour around the church.. Like most routes in the game, going from A to B gets boring after a while.. I think they should make the future new routes with more variations.. make routes that you can drive different ways going from A to B by C or D and vice versa..
If DTG added more things to do, new locos and stock etc, you'ld be complaining about that being boring in 6 months time. If you are bored of a DLC, then welcome to real life, DTG have indeed made a train simulation. I really don't know what some of you are expecting train driving to be, it it looks far more exciting from outside than actually doing the job. Train driving is a dull, often monotonous job overseen by clueless management types only interested in KPIs and box ticking exercises.
Oh I agree they had to start somewhere and that a city route might (eventually) have faced similar issues. But honestly didn’t expect to get bored quite so quickly of the Dutch experience. Again this (IMHO, probably not yours) illustrates why DTG should be pushing follow up packs to this sort of DLC quickly, to enhance the experience and keep the interest piqued.
Certain routes fare better than others. There are some I never tire of driving - WCMLoS, particularly post the latest patch, Mittenwald even ECML to some extent and that’s from someone who generally dislikes modern trains. But the Dutch route, while technically excellent and superbly built, just couldn’t sustain my interest. Perhaps I should give it another chance. Plus, picking up on your very true comment about running trains being tedious and repetitive in real life - over to DTG to make the experience more interesting and absorbing. Minor random unscripted events would be a good place to start. Though I draw the line at the Trans Siberian model of having to stop your train and fight off wolves or Russian Mafia with an axe! Also as an interesting aside, the ATS and ETS2 truck sims can induce the same effect, particularly ATS where you seem to spend most of your trips cruising along the freeway at 65 MPH just stopping occasionally for fuel or when you reach the destination.
I think this is the downside of adding a new country. There aren't layers to make the route more busy or add other trains. Same thing was happening with Voralberg, even with some German and Swiss trains layered in. I think I can understand the reason why they pick this route, as it's not that busy IRL. If they chose for a route in the Randstad (Rotterdam or Amsterdam for example), there will be missing such an amount of trains that it looks very unrealistic. Think about missing high speed trains, like Eurostar and IC direct, missing the other types of sprinters, missing doubledeck coaches and then we even didn't talk about freight. When they do a second Dutch route with new trains, they can layer on eachother and make the rail scene more busy and realistic. I prefer a second route with layers over a loco add-on.
The VIRM on Groningen-Zwolle doesn't make sense, as they don't run there. VIRMm makes a lot more sense as the included stock to any future route that is set in the part of the country where they do run (which is pretty much the rest of the NS network - Groningen-Zwolle is the odd route out in this aspect). DDZ is the most logical choice for rolling stock DLC for the current route, and depending on which route they release next, perhaps also that route. Depending on the plans, the most logical route extensions would be to go south from Zwolle, towards Deventer, Arnhem and Nijmegen. This will allow DTG to include service layers operated by ICMm, SNG and DDZ (should they build that), and include VIRMm as the stock that comes with the new route. Zwolle - Arnhem partly uses the same catenary portals (minus the storks nests) and OHLE as Groningen-Zwolle has, as well as the more modern ones that are also in the existing route, so that would save on asset development. And Zwolle is already done of course. They'd then have a pretty good basis to go west from Arnhem towards Utrecht and Amsterdam/Schiphol, or go west from Zwolle towards Amsterdam over the 200 kph line towards Lelystad. This would be a good excuse to include ICNG, as that stock will start running that service at the end of this year.
Those Stork nests, LOL. Even repeating themselves after some distance ... Stork don't kill themselves shorting out standing with one leg those feeder wires and the other on the portal? It is sort of 'you got what you've asked for' with most TSW routes made to venture into new territory. New developers try their hand at something that isn't too difficult with a limited number of assets. Assets that could become the standard of following DLC, when commercial success warrants further development of that territory. So we'll have to wait and see if there will be more Dutch routes. And didn't DTG's customer survey show the majority of players want those kind of routes since the game still isn't capable of fully free roam of user defined schedules and AI traffic?
One thing is to be bored and the route lacks stuff like locos. Another thing is to be bored but the route has everything it can have. Also I highly doubt someone is complaining if the route is up to standard
I think they made the right choice doing a simpler route to introduce a new region. If it sold well, I expect we’ll see more Dutch routes in the future. This is only the beginning! Maybe a second, larger Dutch project will be a TSW6 core route as the European route? Like TSW4 and Vorarlberg.
I don't think Zwolle - Groningen needs a loco DLC. If I'm not mistaken, it does have a full realistic timetable, without any services missing (aside from AI traffic at either ends). I'd love to see the DDZ (or the older DD-AR for that matter), but then as part of a new route, which also utilizes the ICMm and SNG. The upside is that NS currently only operates with a few types of trains, so it doesn't take a whole lot to recreate a majority of NS's current fleet. (source: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlandse_Spoorwegen#Materieel )
Yes, it does have a complete timetable, but over time it starts to feel less realistic only seeing the ICMm as intercity trains. Simply adding the DDZ would already bring much more variety. Another reason why I believe adding the DDZ as an add-on is the best option, is that the DDZ isn’t as common in the more western parts of the Netherlands, but is frequently seen on this route. If DTG were to add another route in the Netherlands, it’s more likely they’d include the VIRMm (and possibly the SLT), which makes me worry that we might not get the DDZ at all.
It’s a possibility I’m hopeful for, especially since they released TSW5 in a ‘Dutch Regional Edition’ when Spoorlijn: Zwolle – Groningen came out. That could be a hint that a Dutch route might be included as a core route in TSW6.
why not, I am loving me some double decked goodness... I am sure that with more Dutch routes the roster will grow, and this is one of the prime candidates I think
The storks nest are there in real life (although DTG did overdo it with the frequency... they made it seem that the Netherlands has a stork plague). As long as they don't touch the wire and the portal simultaneously, thereby bridging the insulator, McStork isn't on the menu I'm afraid.
