Alan Thompson Simulation Route Discussion/speculation Thread

With you on that. I just know I’d drive it a couple of times on each possible route then, like BCC, Glossop and Goblin before it chuck it to one side. I know the introductory price is a generous discount (though a couple of years ago a short route such as this without a new train would have been £20 anyway). And unlike NLL (which I still haven’t bought) there is no ongoing commitment to extend it the decent length down to Crewe.

One for a deep sale, hasten to add no slur on the route builders or ATS but it was a poor choice for a first attempt. So many more interesting prototypes they could have picked using existing stock if they don’t have a train builder on staff, which could have given distance and something more than electric bus stop running.

 

They did say, if I recall correctly, that this wasn't their first choice, but, intriguingly, wouldn't reveal what was.

 

‘Only five stops’, but consider the size and scale of Crewe - not only is it a huge station but there is untold amounts of track and signalling for all the yards surrounding it.
It would be a hell of an undertaking.

 

No doubt. Crewe and the areas around sandbach are by far the most challenging areas to model. Alderley Edge to Sandbach is mostly all countryside though so the bulk of the time would be modelling Crewe.

 

Well, DTG tried to build Crewe for SOS,, but it was an empty shell, as are most large mainline and terminal stations in TSW.

And judging by the vacant look of Manchester Piccadilly in this DLC, Crewe might have been about the same.

Building such huge stations is one thing. Making them realistically busy is quite another. Something that seems beyond the ability of DTG to accomplish, let alone a small third party dev.

 

All 323s are 3-car. There is no 5-car variant.

 

Thanks mate must of seen two 3 coupled together.

 

But to do all that work as a free update would be madness. And we already know that paid extensions are not going to happen

 

Well if you want to get on the good side of the consumer that is the way to go about it. Johannes is doing a free update on his first TSW route, he could’ve asked to be paid for his extra work.

 

Google AI's response to 323s is that apparently they were designed as 6-car sets, news to me and it didn't cite proper sources so clearly was thinking of 2x 3 car sets together.

As for Crewe looking so empty in SoS, well that's just because they were lacking in period appropriate stuff to layer in. To be fair a modern day Crewe would actually be very busy in terms of TSW rolling stock, 150/153/158,323,350,390 as well as 66s (and possibly since it is a 2018 timetable - 20/37/86s on freight) - without even factoring in LSL "charter stock".

The issue of the complexity of the station and trackwork is what stopped them going there, hopefully they will reconsider at some point and patch it in. Heck I wish they would add Oxford Road since Northern use that for their crew changes on most services so is actually a logical start/end point but ironically there is more chance of them adding Crewe...

 

Really liking what i've seen so far from this route, of course i get the demand for wanting the route to end at Crewe, but for me because there's still the opportunity to drive the Class 390 between Wilmslow and Piccadilly that gives a nice semi-express option.

One question i have since the stream, are the Class 158 EMT services between Piccadilly and Stockport (representing Liverpool-Norwich services) only present on the Sunday timetable, or are they also present on the main weekday timetable?

i only noticed them on the Sunday option, with the Scotrail Class 158 only showing on the weekday version. It would be nice to drive the non-stop Class 158 EMT services between Piccadilly and Stockport on the main weekday timetable when the route is at it's busiest.. but other than that i'm loving what i'm seeing, and i'd really love ATS to move into developing more routes for TSW, they're a welcome addition to the game and would love to know what they have planned once this is released!

 

Watched the first part of the stream which I missed earlier, looks incredible, so much detail, breaking new ground for TSW.
One small point I noticed, I think they forgot to add some sort of approach control going towards the airport from the mainline towards Mauldeth Rd - 75 to 45mph, all green signals. If this is correct in real life then no probs, but probably should be flashing yellows? (Edit....just watched Don Coffey's vid, it's correct in the route, all greens for this turnout, apologies!)

Overall, epic route building, day 1 purchase without doubt.

edit - another junction down the line before you peel off into the airport doesn't seem to have app control ,75 to 40 mph all greens - Could be an old build?
Just watching this vid, has flashing yellows for this junction

 

To answer a few queries about routes/indications:

From Piccadilly at Slade Lane Junction. No flashing yellows.

UF to US for Levenshulme: Approach control to MP35 (No. 1 feather needed)
UF to UF: Can be greens through at 75
UF to Up Styal for Mauldeth Rd: No.4 needed at MP38 at Longsight South Junction to cross over to MP33 where another No. 4 is needed.
US to US, UF or Up Styal: No.1, No junction indication, or No. 4 respectively. Can be greens straight through.

Single flashing yellow before Heald Green on Up Styal for route to the Airport.

Double flashing yellow on Down Styal before Styal for the airport.

Double flashing yellow at Alderley Edge for route onto Down Styal.

 

I drive this route IRL and having had a quick look at the stream the route looks very impressive and a great representation. A big step up compared to Glossop which is the only other route I have reference to.

Will definitely be picking up on release and can take a good look around at my own pace.

 

Yep, I think this isn't currently implemented in the build shown, maybe it is in the newer builds? That aside, can't wait for this route.
Thanks for your route knowledge, always good to have real drivers on here.

 

I'd be interested to know if ATS will be continuing to produce route for TSW, as the quality looks phenomenal... But given some of the challenges they faced, could they confirm if this will be there 'entry level' route, or are there plans for future content? Or is this going to be standalone content and back to focusing on TSC?

 

They did mention on the stream that more routes and trains are planned but i'm guessing that will depend on how successful this route is.

 

Not going to happen I know as their focus appears to be modern Network Rail infrastructure but given they are Manchester based, would be in pole position to do the East Lancs Railway.

 

It's strange, but it seems that they said that this would be their first and last route for TSW (in early spring there was a hype with problems within the office in terms of a very difficult development of this route). Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Do you recall where they said that?

 

Well there was a bit of dirty washing aired in public by one of the people who initially worked on the route. Not sure at this point which thread it was in or, of course, may have been quietly sanitised. Plenty of discussion around that time. As regards ATS not doing another one for TSW, well the bearded one appears to have ruled out extending the Airport route to Crewe but not sure where that leaves them doing another one. Guess it all depends on sales and/or what sort of team they have for any follow up projects, including maybe actually adding a new train next time.

 

I got the impression from the stream that this was a long ( 2 year ) and arduous project and that it was a steep learning curve. If they do build something else for TSW, it won't be next week.

But I will say that, though this kind of route is not my cup of tea, the hard work does show in the build quality, though if they had needed to make one or two new locos, it might have been more than they could chew. At least that's the message I also got from the lads on the stream.

The length of dev time and the route quality made me think of Sand Patch, which also took a couple of years. A very different project and a taller order, as it were, but there's certainly a connection between dev time and route quality.?

Obviously, DTG doesn't have the luxury of that kind of time these days, but the guys and gals who worked on the SPG project set a paradigm that is still not bettered in my opinion.

 

I´m sure they said on the stream that they will be doing another TSW route, if it sells well...

 

They’re not daft, this route will make tenfold what any TsC route makes I’m sure and the costs were higher to develop. They’ll surely make another route or some DLC..

 

I only hope the class 90 :E

 

I've never heard ATS say that.

Alan has been open about the route being the team/s first venture into TSW and building with UE. They've learnt along the way, as you do, what to do right and what you can do wrong. The route went for testing some 4 months ago, and ATS needed to correct some issues, that arose as part of the learning curve. Alan doesn't need to love playing TSW to see where, as a businessman there is potential to make money. If the route is financially successful I am sure further ATS DLC will follow, in time. If not TSC has, and continues to be successful for ATS.

 

I can see this selling very well as a lot of customer base prefers modern over vintage railway. Another route featuring a huge terminus like Manchester Piccadilly is big selling point.

 

I've a feeling that it will be, just by watching the stream - the quality, level of detail and playability (even with the low-ish route mileage) of the route looks like a new era in UK route building is here. Can't wait. Hopefully they will continue route building for TSW.

 

I‘m curious about the former spur near the airport you mentioned. Is it the same one that’s being talked about in this railway forum thread? If so, it was seemingly removed last decade and there’s a parking lot there now, so it’s interesting that it’s still visible in the route.

 

Yes that is the same one, it was a branch coming off and running around Runway 24R and down to the construction site for 24L, after work was completed it was filled in and Jet Parks 3 was built on top. There is however just a visible trace that there used to be a branch there as the embankment changes shape and is regularly used to store pallets, bits of track and other stuff as the cutting is wider there. It's sort of a blink and you'll miss it thing

It's at 22:22 of this drivers eye video.

 

Hopefully tomorrows sale brings a decent discount for Cardiff, for layer purposes..

 

Said it before but I really love the fact there is 2 timetables a weekday and weekend one. That’s really good.

 

I think thats great as well should have done that with a lot of the other routes.

 

100% as they are different to the weekday ones and adds that realism and playability and means more services to complete

 

You may have to wait until Xmas to get a decent discount. I feel it will only be a 20-25% discount this summer.

 

I think so too, but better than nothing I guess!

 

Off topic, but interested to see what's in Steam Sale tomorrow, been a while since I bought any DLC.

 

Don’t blame people for getting Cardiff on sale when it happens. Route
is a disgrace it is. Just tell it was massively rushed and it’s a disgrace to Wales and TfW as well. Purely got it for the 153.

 

I'll be slightly more optimistic and say 30-35%. Semmeringbahn was reduced by 30% and Salzburg-Rosenheim by 35% in last year's summer sale.

 

The weekend timetable is unfinished though and only really has depot moves in it. They ran out of time/budget to finish it properly.

 

Thats disappointing.

 

This was the calculation that people would spend money on the garbage route, but buy for the sake of CL153 and CL150

 

I think Cardiff would have to be 80% off before I considered it and then really just for the 153. However as it’s still relatively new I can’t see it attracting more than a 25 or 30% discount in the upcoming sale.

 

That's a shame, when did they say that?

 

It was in their own Twitch stream the other day.

 

They should have finished the Sunday timetable or not done it at all. If they knew resources where tight why start something known they could not finish it. This is not a day one purchase now.

 

For their first welsh route I would’ve preferred them to do something from the North West coastal. It’s much more interesting to drive and better scenery.

 

I took it to mean it also included ECS & depot moves which only happen on Sundays, along with the regular Sunday passenger services. Could be wrong though; I was a bit miffed at the bad language he used. Not very professional!

 

Just spoilt it for me now -_-

 

Things such like that shouldn’t be advertised if it isn’t finished