Loco Br 194 / E94 Railtour Pack Feedback Thread

My guess is that the ivory/blue 218 only runs with the silver n-Wagen, which come from Mittenwald.

 

As I mentioned above, the IC coaches' running sounds are very loud and noticeable in the cab of the 111.
Tested it with the silver n-Wagen now, same issue. Looks like the latest patch did something it shouldn't have. Puddington Bear already mentioned it in the Mittenwaldbahn feedback thread, but I wanted to raise some attention for it here too

 

No, I get that Amity. But it should still be available in Free Roam and the Training Depot.
E94 isn't there either. It'd be the first time you couldn't use a loco in free roam if that's the case.

And yeah.. no clue on the 218.
Pity because I really like the new livery.

 

That's a possibility. However, I was hoping the 218 with new livery would be able to sub in for the 218 as a 1:1. Limits it's usefulness if it's only a combo set with rollling stock from yet another route.

Gonna have to call that one a bad design choice.
And again, why wouldn't it show up in Free Roam?

 

operator#7940 OK, that's weird. For me, all of them show up in Free Roam. The cream/blue 218, the 194 and the E94 088. You're on PC/Steam too, right?

 

Yup. PC/Steam.
Tried restarting and downloading.
Will try again tonight, at work at the moment.
I sure hope it's not some DLC dependent relationship like the old TSW days.
Can you just spawn the locos separately in free roam, or only with coaches?
What coaches does the E94 use?
Is it the ones from Mitten too?

 

I can spawn them separately too. I think the E94 uses the Umbauwagen included in the E94 pack for its railtours, so not having Mittenwaldbahn shouldn't be an issue.

 

In hope of finding an answer here: Has anyone found the P/G brake mode switchover on the old 194? It should have one as far as I know since the side of the loco lists two different brake weights for P and G setting, but I haven’t managed to locate one either in the engine room or on the bogies.

 

I'm having fun with it despite the bugs. The anachronisms don't bother me since i don't know German railways well enough to spot them. I'm enjoying seeing the varied, colorful passenger consists passing by lol. The 194 is fun to drive, haven't ventured into anything but a couple freight services so far.

 

Anyone found a workaround for this?

 

I'd say these might be the valves in question since they're the only ones I could spot.
However they don't seem to be interactive, no prompts appear.

I could be wrong though since I haven't inspected the prototype in regards to that.
In any case, they might be interactive after the still delayed day-one-patch.

 

They are indeed the GP valves, although they're blocked by a collision volume presently (doh)

 

I was about to write the same. Almost half of the german routes wont allow me to spawn it saying" not enough space". Its annoying and frustrating as hell! Time to sort this out DTG...

 

So all in all the Loco and new wagons look great, the timetable is very nice but here is the list of things that definitve must be sorted out.
1. Umbauwagen turn full white in snow
2. BR 194 in Livery Editor is broken
3. All those bugs with the new timetable like trains not moving on green signals and stuff
4. The bugs in the cab with thinhs not clickable and other stuff
5. And for ALL routes: We should be able to spawn EVERY train on EVERY route which is currently not the case... i'm really tired of this damn annoying message saying " not enough space
train formation does not fit in this scenario"!

 

And they really do need to fix the buggered instructions which make both training scenarios noncompletable.

 

Query: in their current frozen state, are they defaulted to G or P?

 

Same
The timetable sure needs some work, but as soon as the issues have been ironed out, it will be vastly superior to the old one

Talking about issues...
Something I encountered a couple of times now, a lot of services seem to run on the opposite track, at least for part of their journey.
Just had to wait with my 57453 at Uhlerborn, because 55253 is using the opposite track.

 

Passenger.

 

I mean I did complete the 194 training intro. Just too some fiddling around. Are you clicking on the actual controls in the cab or the quick keys? For some reason on some things you have to click the cab controls, as finicky as they are even if presets are set. (Throttle and brake for example)
Like I said, it's quirky.
There's also some "delays" built in for some reason, again with the brake and throttle.

 

To be honest I have a bit of a mixed feeling towards this product.

Tried the IC619 - departure 1950 lt ex Koblenz - timetable scenario for the DBBR 103 and it placed me on the platform in Rhens, instead of Koblenz Hbf, asking me to open the doors. Which doors? It was the wrong station and there was no train. Settled for another service from Mainz to Koblenz.

Besides, I did another timetable for the evening Eilzug from Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof to Saarbrucken Hauptbahnhof as well. This went more or less seamlessly.

However I noticed a sheer dominance of Mintgrün Produktfarben Silberlinge in Mainz and the route. I really understand that there's not enough content, yet, and that it takes time to close gaps. But, a 1980s vibe is not really possible with this content. Same goes for the DBBR628.

In a German forum someone showed up that the DBBR 110 could be repainted and, thus would more fit into 1984.
The DBBR 628.2 could be repainted with the livery the predecessor DBBR 628.1 had. Check the link:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/DB628_103-4_in_Freiburg.jpg

The driver cab car for the Silberlinge could be repainted into a Silberlinge metallic for the time being, as it is basically the original model with all windows openable and the same compartment sections.

The Avmz 207 should be replaced with the original model in this livery

https://www.jernhesten.dk/forbillede/DB/Personvogne/resultat.asp?quest=Avmz-207-1&selskab=DB

And/or this with red underfloor

https://www.die-zugfolgestelle.de/cgi-bin/bild.cgi?bild=2882070

Special attention should be paid to the Zugschlusslampe, the door and door window shape, as well as the interior. I reported this error in the "Mittenwaldbahn Preview" topic at rail-sim.de on January 31st, 2025 almost two weeks prior release and it was ignored. It's the first reply on page 5.

https://rail-sim.de/forum/thread/42378-tsg-mittenwaldbahn/?pageNo=5

Finally, what is really obvious and should come are m-Wagen, TEE Wagen, Silberling driver cab car (Karlsruher Modell and Hasenkasten).

I hope this will somehow draw attention from the developer to this, because you guys can do it if you wanted to and invested more time into research, as you proved with the Niddatalbahn Mittenwaldbahn and the E94. If you need help, ask the community, but don't remain silent or state that it can't be changed. I have faith in you, but as of now I feel sorry to say that I am considering a refund at steam.

What matters to me isn't that the BR 110 500-X pulled the E1234 between Cologne and Frankfurt on June 21, 1984, and ran into a rain shower near Bingen at exactly 7:44 p.m., or that the sun set over Gau Algesheim at exactly 9:34 p.m. while the 798 234 stopped there, but rather the atmosphere. And with such a lack of rolling stock, that simply isn't there at the moment, even though I do appreciate and respect the effort put into it. There's a flair there, but somehow not.

Kind regards.

 

I also dont have mittenwalbahn, so you're probably right. I also dont have the br 103, which makes no sense. If that's the case dtg better be giving refunds

 

As the devs have stated, anything is possible, but not everything is financially viable. If people would play $150 for a gameplay pack, then, sure they could invest the vast amount of dev time required to do all that.

 

I honestly doubt it that repaints for the DBBR 110. DBBR 628.2 or a correct Avmz 207, which are all easy to locate via Google search (took me a mere minute) would've broke the camels back. In that case, maybe just some activity scenarios would've been as good. So, appreciate your reply and thanks very much, but to me it's highly unlikely.

True fans of the Bundesbahn and/or this loco would pay even 50EUR just for a similar pack as this, if everything is done correctly. The best example for this thesis is the DBBR 101 Expert.

Kind regards

 

The Avmz 207 didn't yet exist in 1984, nor did the 628.2, and neither ever wore blue/beige; you're asking to replace fictions with fictions.

 

Firstly, the Avmz 207 was manufactured between 1977 and 1981, as this two looks confirm

https://www.deutsche-reisezugwagen.de/wagendaten/207-avmz-bwmz/

https://www.die-zugfolgestelle.de/cgi-bin/bild.cgi?bild=2882070

It states "Im Jahr 1977 stellte die deutsche Bundesbahn 100 Eurofima-Wagen der Bauart Avmz 207 in Dienst." Translated it states that the Deutsche Bundesbahn introduced 100 Eurfima coaches class Avmz 207 in 1977.

Secondly, the 628.2 repaint in the predecessor style is a suggestion to avoid having to design the 628.1 extra - cost cutting.

Kind regards.

 

So its okay to repaint a DMU in a livery it never wore, to mimic a DMU that it looks nothing like of which only 3 were ever built... but putting a coach that isn't that dissimilar in apperance in the grand scheme of things to the one it is trying to mimic is a big no no...

Yes in an ideal world we would have made the correct coach, but considering it was only ever intended as a bonus and never originally planned anyway, and to make the correct vehicle would have effectively required an entirely new model to be made the maths simply does not work out.

 

Me too (PS5 pro)

 

Well, DominusEdwardius , I never said the paint for the 628.2 would be fine, but that it would at least suit more in appearance. In fact the 628.2 should've been omitted entirely, as it simply doesn't match 1984.

And, yes, the Avmz really saddens me, because the Bqmz looks perfectly like the original and I - not only myself I guess - wonder why, when now it became obvious that it'll be used more frequently, it is not possible to do the real coach. In fact I reported it to you on January 31st, 2025 when the first preview images came public via abovementioned link.

I'm not intending to start any stirrups, I really appreciate your products, otherwise I wouldn't have got them. All that might be nice would be a "we'll look into it once more".

Have a nice evening.

Kind regards.

 

Yes and 12 days before a release, nothing is going to change, the product I think was fully locked around the January 24th and even then it was locked even earlier for all except major fixes. Building an entirely new coach before release in such a timeframe is simply impossible, heck even when the idea was muted around the end of October making a new coach simply couldn't be done, there just wasn't enough man hours to make that even remotely possible, and even if there had, the Silberling baggage car would have probably been my first choice.

After release, again the time required to make a new coach doesn't make it viable to do for an update and its probably time that could be better spent building a coach we don't have like a Bm or Am. There are added complications, its not just a case of simply swapping like for like, scenarios need to be altered and cheked and test, services across several routes need changing, heck even things like advertising material would need ammending etc etc. Down the road it might be viable to build the coach as part of another pack, but as an update it would just not be viable.

 

First impressions: I have only played one scenario so far due to time constraints. The 194 (classic Bundesbahn one, haven’t touched the modern one) overall seems nicely done, but is not without issues.

194 Negatives

• As someone deeply interested in the technical and operational side of railroading, the (for now) inaccessible G/P switchover is a major issue.
• The textures of the roof walkways look terribly stretched or unsharp/blurry on PS5.
• Introduction cannot be completed on PS5 (stuck on the last “release the brakes”).

194 Positives

• Many unique details like the headlights and their red lenses or the manual pump for the pantographs.
• A new Indusi (PZB), and pretty much the most rudimentary version at that, is a nice change of pace.
• Clearly, a lot of effort went into making a proper 194 and not just redressing the 1020.

Other Feedback

• Oil lamps and manual control of the end-of-train signals are very nice touches.
• The Gbs buffer collision seemed iffy when coupling in the scenario I played.

I haven’t touched the timetable yet, so I can’t comment on that. Just looking at the 194, I must admit I get the impression that a few things slipped the net that shouldn’t. The weird textures on the walkway really stick out to me and a crucial element of the braking system like the G/P selector should also not be missed.

Still, I do look forward to seeing it all come together in the timetable when I get around to it.

 

Could you define what you were coupling too and front with Gbs buffer issue as the collisions look spot on from my perspective on the Gbs.

 

Right, right, sorry: brainfart. I was thinking Avmmz 106, which indeed wasn't around then. But, as you say, the Avmz 207 was, so what is wrong with its 1989 Mittenwald iteration, in the old beige/altrot livery?

 

I also don't have ANY horn sound at all in the MITT 111 now. Don't know if that was mentioned before.

 

It's okay, no worries. The difference is the sliding door, which was different model on the first generation Eurofima coaches and the ending red light frame, besides the interior which is from the late 2000s modifications. Take the Bqmz as reference for the outside visual model as a reference.

Take care.

Kind regards.

 

I'm more bothered by D-züge running with Eurofimas. The price we pay for having no m-Wagen in the game.* I'd put those (Am 201, ABm 221, Bm 231) at the top of the "have to make" list, together with the 140.

*Not counting the Talbot rebuilds with the Flix, which are utterly different

 

Another: the driver POV in the 194 is too high, so in the rain you're looking above the top of the wiper path through uncleared water. At a guess, driving in snow is impossible. (Also, from that angle you can't really watch the desk and the brake gauges in one frame)

And one more: the P/G brake valves are blocked by an invisible wall, so the player can't interact with them

 

Driver height was (is) an issue with the OG version on Mittenwald. Essentially forces you to use head out view. The developer needs to look at using the seat height adjustment mechanism applied to a standing height position.

 

Can't find the post right now, but yesterday someone mentioned that the IC coaches and n-Wagen aren't just too loud in the 111's cab, but also in the 218's. I just tried and can not confirm this. To me they sound perfectly fine in the 218.


I also wanted to throw in some words regarding this ongoing discussion about why the pack didn't include more "cheap and easy" repaints.
Honest opinion: Because it's stupid.
Sorry in advance if I may come across as a bit harsh.

The 110 and the Avmz would need a couple of model changes as well, to be truly accurate. The 110 would also need a reworked dashboard and some other minor cab changes. Plus the new livery.
Also, if there would be a 110 coming with nice TEE colours and all, some people here would immediately start complaining "But where's the cobalt blue version? I want a cobalt blue!".
Same with the carriages. We now have an incredibly well made B4yg ingame. Admittedly it's quite underused at the moment but it's nice to have regardless. Opens a lot of possibilities for the future! But people already complain "The Umbauwagen is useless, I would have preferred some m-Wagen!".

Making a good 628.1 out of the 628.2 we already have is simply not possible. They might look similar on first glance, but are completely different vehicles. As DominusEdwardius already mentioned, only 3 (three) 628.1 were ever built, and they were stationed nowhere near Mainz or Koblenz.
Some take issue with all the mint green in the timetable as it is, claiming it's not accurate for 1984 (which it isn't, to be fair). Having some violated cream/blue 628.2 running around, posing as its predecessor, wouldn't help things in the slightest.

People seem to forget that creating all this stuff is work. It takes research, it takes time, it takes skill. Try modelling a loco or railcar yourself, it's not an easy feat. Neither is painting, if done accurately and tastefully. Not to mention the simulation part. Having just started spending some time with the Expert 101 and IC cab myself, my hair stand on end thinking about how much programming work this must have been.


OK, rant over.
Again, sorry if this was a bit harsh, usually not my style. But this nagging and pestering for more, more, more is getting on my nerves.

 

I actually really like what this Pack did to Linke Rheinstrecke. The route feels much more alive and busy, i like that they made use of all the old rolling stock and i actually like that its "Bunt". Im not the one who can judge how accurate it is for 1984, or if the 194 even drove in those masses on LfR, but it doesn't feel wrong for me personally. Theres a great mix of paints and locos from different eras giving it this transitional time feel.

The Quality of the Locos and Wagons is absolutely pleasing, seems there are some things that have to be sorted there but nothing fundamentally, at least nothing keeping me of driving these machines.

Still, i was a little bit disappointed that we cannot open the new box freight cars (sorry, forgot the name). Not a dealbraker of course.

There's still the Problem that i cannot spawn either of both Locos on Pfälzische Ludwigsbahn, this obviously looks like a core problem but this has to be fixed. I can drive an ÖBB 1020 there without problems.

Last but not least, it was clearly stated that a portion of the earning are going to EZW, im honest this was also a big selling point for me. I've seen E94 088 in person when She was present in Dresden for the Museum festival, had a chance to talk with some of the staff and they are a great bunch of dedicated people and i had great respect for their project. (Aswell as for the People who are working on E77 10, another super old, bonkers Electric Loco).

*Edit, writing this from a PS5 perspective

 

I feel the same. As I already mentioned, once the issues have been worked out, the new timetable will wipe the floor with the old one
In my head, it's a 1988 timetable instead of a 1984 one. The 194 and Umbauwagen were still barely in service and Produktfarben, i.e. the mint green, were already a thing. It's a compromise.

Glad to know I'm not the only nerd who tried that

That's odd. I just tried and all three of them could be spawned and used there without issue. Here's proof, leaving Mannheim:

 

Sorry to double post again, but back to problem solving!

Looks like service E3365 with the 218 can't be completed.
Already leaving Ingelheim with a delay because I had to give way for a short local freight service as well as the TEE 7 (I'll gladly make way for the Rheingold of course ), the majority of the ride went smoothly. Passed through Mainz-Mombach with about 5 minutes of delay.
Just after Mombach I was relegated over to the left track although being scheduled to arrive on platform 5, the rightmost platform of Mainz Hbf.
On top of that, the entrance signal of Mainz Hbf showed "stop", so I did. Another IC overtook me, and went to platform 4. I thought my signal would turn green soon, but it didn't. Checked the map, and there's a 628 occupying my platform 5, scheduled to leave at 12:47! My patience ran out and I outright eliminated it, but still had to wait at the red signal for no apparent reason. Soon the D259 joined me and couldn't enter either. I let it run for 15 more minutes, no change.

(Also, the n-Wagen setup with the 110 in the siding to my left is filled with passengers, despite being out of service for 5 more hours )

 

I actually had the same thought about the time it represents, feels late 80s to me aswell. Haven't run into problems regarding the TT yet (like trains getting stuck etc.) But haven't done many services yet.

I cant imagine more people haven't tried open those wagons

Are you on PS5 aswell? I edited my post so its more obvious. Its not the only case where there is a suspicious low limit of spawning options ( f.e. i cannot spawn a 628 or 642 on DRA, there are many more cases on my platform in that regard ) but especially since i can spawn a 1020 there and its working fine, i have a feeling that this is some sort of "forgot to tick the right box". So at this point im hoping this will be an easy and quick fix.

 

No, I'm on PC/Steam. Would be an odd problem to be system-related, but I've seen weirder things in TSW

 

The trouble is vern, you would have to be somewhat short, like for the centre of the wiper to be in line with the camera, your eyeline would have to be at about 143cm so about 150cm tall. The current camera is at approximatley the height of the player model with the eyeline at around 163cm for a height of about 175cm. With the lack of a seat theres just nothing we can really do to adjust the camera height as theres nothing to put the height adjustment on.

Heck even DB seem to have admitted the wipers were borderline useless with there being about 3 seperate variations later on where they repositioned them, but the change was far from universal and so many went to the cutters torch with the original wiper position. For example here two side by side with two different wiper positions.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/157299819@N02/54056940595

 

I agree. At some point it just becomes a constant whine about all the things we don't have, even when it's minor, inconsequential and sometimes even MORE inaccurate than what is already in game. I'm not sure if people realize they're doing it though. I get the feeling we're a very.... abnormal niche community. Like watch and stamp collectors, we're very focused on things and not good as a rule with people. I hesitate to say autistic without a diagnosis and knowing an individual, but let's just say very "passionate" and not socially adept.
It can be annoying, but I'm trying to keep in mind that for some people it might just be OCD or a passionate desire for "perfection" and not them trying intentionally to be annoying.
Like a Sheldon Cooper from "Big Bang Theory."
I'm sure anyone here would gladly go on for an hour about a minor topic of interest if asked (or even not asked)

Sadly, the world isn't perfect and it frustrates people. That's especially true of a "game" like TSW.
While criticism is valid (especially actual game breaking bugs or omissions like system crashes or entirely missing content) but that all too easily slides quickly into going from "making it playable and fun" to "making it perfect."

 

From looking at lots of pictures I think the lower position is an alteration itself, made for drivers who sit down (on a stool), which probably became the norm. The non-driver side wiper is always in the higher position (as it is in game) and I reckon that was the original position of both wipers, and there are pictures of versions like that, and non-matching wipers doesn’t make sense for an original design. In the picture, on the loco with the lower wiper position, you can see dots higher up on the frame where it was originally mounted, and this can be seen in other pictures too. The side mounted alterations may have been to enable all driver positions to be able to see clearly and in most pictures it is only the driver side wiper that has this mount. I’m guessing it’s too late for the in game model to have the wiper position changed or have the driver seated on a stool.

 

AIUI, many drivers would bring a stool, understandably. Could that be incorporated as a “cheat” to recalibrate the eyeline?

 

Replacing the "standing position" with a "stool" lower position (even without showing the "stool") would seem to be a decent compromise. That or it's more of a "squatting" or 'hunched over" position in game. In real life I suppose a lot would depend on the height of the person driving too. I haven't driven the 194 in rain yet, so may try that later to see how the visibility is.

 

. I like your “modification” theory; I doubt DB only hired Danny DeVito height drivers

 

I like your points, operator#7940 , and especially the conclusion that "Sadly, the world isn't perfect and it frustrates people." or that it could be a sort of "autistic behaviour" when people conclude something not perfect or both well researched. The point is, that when for example the Mittenwaldbahn was going on for months prior releasing the first images and that one Avmz 207 was more or less a last minute add in, why wasn't it researched as good as the remainder? The route is perfect, even taking into consideration such details, such details as the special catenary design on the German part of the route. And then there's this one point, a minor maybe, where one rolling stock was seemingly not well researched. Can you imagine what impression it'd give if you wrote the perfect thesis and just added in last minute some wikipedia citations into the semifinal chapter? Yes, maybe it's may sound like whining or autism, but if you are used doing projects yourself you'll notice that you have standards to stick with.

I am not and never concluded that everything is LOVE, it isn't. The loco is perfect, the coaches, especially the Umbauwagen, are perfect, but the timetable isn't. It isn't because it is not well coordinated, well actually there are some hiccups where a train will sit in the midst of your path or you'll be placed at the wrong station, but in general it shows that the time may not have been as good as it should have been. The reason is simply that too many of the Bundesbahn rolling stock is still missing and has yet to come. If you look into the UK section of TSW or even the US you'll notice that there's more variety for present and historical content.

Let's take another example. You get your house designed and constructed at a plot you purchased and altogether you paid a sum of money you worked for under whatever circumstances or stress. Now everything is done and with your first steps into your new home you discover, that your sleeping room is pitch black, your living room is pink and your bathroom has a shower and not the intended tub. How would you react? Id be curious if you'd stick to the advices from above. You see, the point herein is plain and simple: some of us work for our money and some have to considerate carefully what can be done for a little joy. So it saddens when something announced turns out not as great as it should or even could have been. TSG has a lot of potential and they've showed in the past and with upcoming projects. I think it may be helpful to complain or rather give feedback.

To conclude this, maybe it is whining for some, but for others it us the only way to find out why certain things are not as they should be. Keeping quiet won't help anyone. In contrary it'll disappoint people to a point some could abandon. A feedback forum is the place to whine, complain and criticise, but also to praise and point out good products.

Have a great day.

Kind regards