Athena Simulations: Ecml Diesel Railtours

That’s MML bis repetita I’m afraid… Andrew Whittaker ran away and will come back again under a new “company name” to produce another defect DLC.

Of course DTG will fall into the trap again as usual trusting him.

 

This is the problem, DTG are in such a big rush to push off DLC productions to third parties to free them up to do? But the key is to quality control what is being produced because at the end of the day it will ruin TSW and DTG's name. Just trains produce a product, they stand behind that product, the gentleman who produced Mildmay single handed and broke PCs and crashed consoles because he put too much in and they you have this reheated.....stuff? Who is going to fixed it? Are DTG going to fix it and if that is the case then it defeats the whole plan of getting third parties to produce DLCs in the first place, but it has the TSW name on it regardless of who made it.

 

I was initially tempted to get this, but the bugs reported at launch put me off. The deep discount so soon after launch doesn't give me much hope it ever will be.

 

Works okay for me. *shrugs* Depends on what you expect I guess. They did fix a few things already too since launch.

 

Such as?

 

They are probably working on a big update with the class 40 and class 45 which would probably add some fixes for the class 47 or at least going off what they said in the past

 

Not sure how you have a version of the add-on that doesn’t suffer from all the issues mentioned in this thread.

Although I assume you mean you have all the same issues but you’re just happy to live with them.

 

I know some things have been fixed, but the biggest thing for me in a pack of scenarios is that the scenarios work properly with the right AI traffic. By all accounts in this thread, that isn't the case. They fix them, I buy, simple as that.

 

probably yet another bug. the cab light shouldn't be coming on automatically

 

TBH, It's an ok DLC and now I'm glad they chose 47484 and not the 55 because I would hate it if they ruined the 55.. Whilst the BR Blue & Grey Mk1s are nice, they are clearly the same MK1s from either SoS or PF just repainted (I can tell because the tail lamp is the old oil burning style instead of the newer electric blinking design).

47484 is cleary the NTP 47 just repainted and give a HI lamp but otherwise a decent locomotive. It does have a few bugs such as the window surround not going down with the rest of the window, you can access elements of the cab when outside the loco in an external camera, you can uncouple and couple the locomotive from inside the cab when on foot. The DLC also heavily uses the NTP Class 40 & 45 but they didn't upgrade them to a modern standard nor give us a new variant of each.

The worst offender with this pack IMO is that nothing from the pack (at least at the moment) is avaliable on timetable mode - it is strictly a scenario and free-roam DLC however, 47484 does appear on WSR, Blackpool Branches & Over Shap. In short - I'd wait until it's at least on sale for no more then £5.

FYI, I'm on Xbox Series S so I don't know if it's any different on any other versions of TSW5

I also haven't yet tried any of the scenarios so I don't know they bugged they are

 

Another reason to keep TSW uninstalled, BR era content being produced is welcome but if its that bad I will stick with TSC. AP mk1 pack and numerous decent 47s with a 3rd party one on the way. There's no excuse no we are 8 years into TSW and the speed at which DLC comes out with it should be close to perfect.

 

I still think, apart from Just Trains, so far as the UK is concerned both DTG and the third parties are struggling to recruit and retain anyone with the ability to sit down and build new locomotives and rolling stock. Hence this plethora of tarted up reskins and gameplay packs that we seem to be getting inundated with. Same goes for routes to some extent.

Whether that’s because UE is too hard to work with, the old hands have burned out or simple lack of interest in TSW over other titles I know not. But I see it as an increasing issue with the game going forward. Have said many times before, I will put down genuine Day One money for a Class 56 or Class 60, done right with decent sounds or even a genuine expanded pack of Mark Ones including the more modern style later build variants.

 

I don't trust TSW to deliver any more. Invested heavily at the start with the promises made at the time. Now it's long waits for very little and occasional decent output. I have built a whole model railway scrapped it and started a new one before the 104 has even been beyond some grey CAD shots.

 

The 104 was actually in my mind when I commented above.

 

The main reason I purchased the pack was for the Blue/Grey Mark 1 carriages. I love creating stock with Mark 1s.

The actual pack though is a mess.

 

Meaning they're not impeding actual gameplay.
They're cosmetic.
Which it's fine if you obsessively care about.
To each their own.
I find it enjoyable.
It is what it is for the low price and a first product from a company.
Again, you're entitled to your own opinion.
Hopefully the rest of us are as well.

 

This... TSC has been getting more new rolling stock the last couple of months without DTG even doing anything for the game.

Repaints and scenarios are mostly done for free by the community in TSC... the whole situation is laughable to me, to be honest. All these "companies" hyping themself up for releasing one or two gameplay packs with reskins, that would be a basic freeware download within the TSC universe.

 

That is the biggest niggle with TSW, the freeware scene is minimal due to DTG keeping things effectively locked down. In the long term we are now seeing that stifling content production whether it be routes or trains. In MSTS and TSC most of us learned the tools by doing freeware stuff and many went on to build enough confidence to venture into payware, joining into teams with like minded people. But that path is largely unavailable with TSW even before taking into account the undocumented and incomprehensible editor which I, who have built routes over the years in all the major sims, gave up on in complete consternation.

 

All it’s gonna take is another game studio to come along and build a new train sim with more accessibility for 3rd party content creators and DTG could be in trouble.

 

“All” …

 

How many alternatives do you want? Or does it have to be "exactly like TSW" to qualify?
Because you're only limited to "just TSW" if you are tied to console.
So what you must ask is "when will another console based game be like TSW?"

That's a much harder requirement but accurate.

 

"All"

 

...or just buy a PC and get other train sims.

 

Unfortunately, none of the current PC offerings are very competitive with TSW.........Yet.

 

Depends on what you're looking for. Arguably they are better in some ways. (Four of them have pretty decent steam locos for example)
Some are selling pretty well.

Train Sim World 5 560 online peak
Railroader 476 online peak
Trains 19/22 435 online peak
Train Sim Classic 350 online peak
Derail Valley 322 online peak
Railroads Online 100 online peak
Sim Rail 60 online peak

What they can't compete with TSW on is console. The only one that's on Xbox (or even being considered for console at all) is Railroads Online and that's 100% never going to go past 1920 per the developers. So TSW really has no console competition.

The very issues TSW has though... many of them stem from having to adapt code to and port to PC, Xbox and Playstation with those limitations. Further, it's a pretty small market.

Compare them to other simulators like Euro Truck Stimulator 2 which has 18,000 users online peak or American Truck Simulator (same company) with almost 9,000 people.

THAT is why your DLC is so expensive.
Let's say it costs $200,000 to hire 5 developers to make a DLC for Truck or Train simulator.
Let's say the total customers for each game is 10 times what the average daily number is.
If you only have 5,000 train sim customers, you have to sell 5,000 copies at $50.00 to make that $200,000 back with $50,000 profit.
If you have 180,000 truck sim customers, you can charge each of them $2.00 and make more profit.$1.50 and you'll make $70,000 profit.

There's just not as many customers to split the cost.
It's a tiny, niche market.

Hell, even "Power Wash Simulator" has 6 times as many players as Train Sim World.
Now how do the other games manage it?
They charge for the base game for starters (TSW hasn't been, just the routes bundled with it)
Second, they don't have CLOSE to the number of maps and locos in detail that TSW does.
Railroader has ONE map that's about as long as a TSW map of similar quality. Maybe 12 locos.
Derail Valley is similar.
Railroads Online similar too.
Sim Rail has a few maps, but also a VERY limited loco selection and it's just ONE region (part of Poland)
TSC and Trainz have huge community mod resources

They aren't full competitors to TSW... but I don't think they want to be.
A competitor to TSW would have to have
a) huge amount of maps
b) huge amount of rolling stock
c) timetable mode
d) conductor mode
e) scenario creator
f) PC, XBox and Playsation support.
g) A player base of a few thousand reliable players

Now we already have an issue with too few players.
Imagine a competitor splitting the TSW fans in two.
Would things get better and less expensive?

Im not saying it can't be done... or competition is bad. Far from it! However, it's hardly SIMPLE to do so, and the player base is so small that few companies would bother at this point for the very small, risky reward.

I think TSW is already in it's "niche" and is loaded with features, perhaps too many, with too small of an audience and stretched across 3 platforms. It's already trying to be too much for too many people.

I think it's "competition" won't be another overly stretched TSW clone, but rather it's "death by 1,000 cuts" ...it'll be a ton of smaller games that are more focused with lower overhead able to pull in a wider playerbase and more platform-specific.
People who want 50s transition rails in the US go to Railroader.
People who want a dynamic economy and lots of freight/shunting on a small map go to Derail Valley.
Polish players can flock to Sim Rail, who can focus very cheaply and efficiently on a small well done area.

I can see other games sprouting up too for console.
German-specific commuter rail simulator that's just modern EMUs for example on only Xbox/Playstation.
An Asian train simulator.
A very simple game that's ONLY being a conductor or a "passenger" on routes, thereby reducing game production for a super-simple "ride along" experience. You might laugh but I mean... if people will buy a "power wash simulator"....if you keep costs low, you don't need to make much money.
That and things like Roblox. There are already scenarios there where you can DO that... ride along, punch tickets, etc.
And it's Roblox.

 

Yeah we all have several hundred quid just laying around. We'll get right on it.

 

Strong disagree here.

 

Now correct if Im wrong but I thought gaming PCs where mega expensive.

 

I am looking at a budget of around £1200 to replace my PC, once I can perform a Jedi mind trick on the wife to let me buy it! But that’s still not going to be a state of the art, kick donkey all singing, all dancing box of tricks. A middle of the road I5 or I7 processor and a lower end RTX GPU (even the now humble RTX3050 still retails at over £150 for a decent branded one).

 

Think I will stick with my Xbox x i have not got that sort money just laying around.

 

The hardware yes but software range massively different.

 

Well my ambitions took a bit of a dent this month anyway as just had to fork out for a new washing machine (£500) and the wife broke her exercise bike so that was another £250, plus blood sweat and tears while yours truly had to put it together working from instructions written in Chinese English with a low quality pictograms.

 

I'd hope for 250 quid that exercise bike also featured stereophonic sound, a coffee maker, and a mini bar included, good lord

 

Getting OT here a bit but the wretched things are expensive. If you want one with electromagnetic operation and integrated controls you are talking over £400. £250 buys you a basic mechanical resistance bike and manual resistance adjustment. You could buy a half decent road bike for less and a lot of these exercise bikes barely last more than a year before going wrong and can’t be repaired. One company I looked at were quoting a £150 call out charge and that’s before parts and any additional labour costs!

 

That's a bit of an exaggeration, isn't it? You can get a basic road bike for a three-digit sum, but for a "half decent" one you're looking at 1500€ or more.

 

I bow to your wisdom sir! I bought my old Raleigh pseudo MTB second hand for about £150 but that was over 10 years ago.. Wife paid around £200 for a similar new one.

Guess I’ll be keeping the old boneshaker going

 

Athena is gone and don’t reply anymore

 

That would be a shame if true, I was actually looking forward to the current issues being resolved before (re)purchasing. They seemed nevertheless sincere, and happy to be providing content for TSW.

 

They didn’t help anymore here on the Forum, the same they did on Skyhook Games when Jane was in Charge

 

Regarding the many possibly very good alternatives to TSW…… How many of those alternatives have any prototype UK routes?

 

Good heavens!! My barely 2- line post generates a 90- line response.

Is there anything you can do in the way of conciseness, or must you use all available bandwidth? Maybe you just enjoy typing. Or is it just stream of consciousness?

 

Heading off the next 3 pages of people mentioning additional points.
Saves time.

 

TSC has many. The JT Cornish route is way better than the Rivet effort for example.

 

I know….. That was my point. There’s only TSC and not multiple options for the UK market.

 

Also, trainz, open rails, Diesel Railcar Simulator all do British outline stuff.

TSW once timetable mode has done its time and the short runs have become tiresome or the lack of rolling stock variations have shown there head then alternatives are my solution. In TSC I have the whole West Highland Line and North Clyde network. 303s, 314s and 320s, 156s, 37s (not limited to 37/5s) multiple Wagon types and random weather and decent skies and lighting. That's across the board.

There is probably 3 things in development for TSW that I have an interest in the 86 (no sign of it despite price), the 104 (I am not holding breath) and 232 (same as 104) if driving Piccadilly to the Airport in a 323 is what floats ones boat then great. Unfortunately for me I would rather watch some paint slowly dry.

 

Yes, I agree. Commuter runs are not my cup of tea either. But if modern bus stopping is your thing, MAC is probably as good as it gets.

The 86 will show up eventually, but the 104 seems to be gone, unfortunately.

 

These short network routes would have more appeal if the run chaining actually worked, but it still doesn't even without a save game in the middle. So really despite the "timetable" to all intents and purposes each run is simply the equivalent of same in a TSC scenario. The whole point of the enhanced "world" gameplay was to keep a driver's shift going, taking over a new train etc., etc. but seems DTG can'tor won't sort out that aspect of the game.

 

That was one small aspect of it maybe.
Not the "whole point."
TSW is way way way bigger than TSC in that respect.
You can walk around stations, hope in any train, do conductor mode, ride along while AI drives, and timetable mode doesn't exist.
Being able to "work a shift" so to speak was always a sort of niche thing for the few people with a whole day to put into the game.
Since the timetables exist as in real life...why can't you just hop between them?
Your "save" is just starting at the next timetable.
In real life there'd be time between "runs" anyway, so just pick up where you left off. Think of it like episodes of a TV show.
You can watch one episode or you can watch 4 episodes.
You don't need to "save" you just finish episode 4 and then start with episode 5.
It doesn't negate that you watched episodes 1-4.

 

Funnily enough I just used the travel then walk arrangement on Cathcart to finish the Mastery collectibles. Spawned at Cathcart, did the items there, hopped on the first train to the next station, did the business there then proceeded to walk along the line to the next two stations (easy on Cathcart) to finish the job. It made a change!

 

I do like that it does represent a "world" where there are regular trains per real life. Not a big "commuter" per se, but it does make virtual trainspotting a real thing. I suppose if someone wanted to they could spend a whole day in real life to virtually "ride" on a whole trip for hours hopping between routes and matching timetables, never leaving the game, just like real life in 1:1 scale.

Just bring a book to read while you're waiting at the stations for your next connection =-)

(Unlike the real thing, you could just hop in the cab if you get bored and take over. They'd be a bit cross at you for trying that bit in real life!)