I saw the tip in TSW5 that if next light is yellow then that means you must slow down because the next light is going to be red and you must stop in front of that. While they say that, that is not always true. This is on Berninalinie playing the scenario Scenic Views. And here is an odd one on the same scenario where the next light is green and the light after it shows up as red. While these screen shots where taken in TSW4: #1 What the heck is up with these different situations regardless of the same route AND OR scenario/service? Please and thank you
#2 Another question that I thought of: Why after the yellow light is there two green lights that shown that close together? Please and thank you
Breaking news: Different countries have different signalling systems I heard in Tuvalu a blue signal usually follows a pink one
I'm not using the signal interface. I think it adds more confusion. I prefer to rely on the actual signals. And although a yellow signal isn't always followed by a red signal, you should expect a red signal next. Reduce your speed enough to be able to stop at the next signal.
Yellow doesn't mean it will definitely be red, it means expect a red and react accordingly to allow time to stop – just in case the next signal remains red by the time you reach it. But if the traffic ahead has moved on before you reach that section of track, then the yellow was a false alarm because what was a red signal has now changed back to green.
For the UK routes at least the following applies in 4 aspect signalling: Red, means stop. Single yellow, means the next signal will be red. Double yellow, is a cautionary signal to slow down and prepare for the single yellow aspect. Green, means clear. A unique signal is the one present on ECML where you'll get a flashing green, which means you have a clear line to operate at full line speed... (I believe it was a unique and test aspect introduced for the proposed Class 91, 140mph top speed, but never implemented as it decided anything above 125mph needed in cab signalling. But it is exclusive to the ECML and is still present although it doesn't really serve any purpose. I stand to be corrected though if I am wrong in any aspect) (There are single and triple aspect signals in the UK, and I think the 3 aspect follows the same. Single aspect I know vague amounts about, not not conclusively what the rules are Vs the other aspects) The UK in future, and is very slowly, introducing ERTMS which is a variation of in cab signalling all of Europe is going over to. Consequently this means some lines will be able to finally operate at speeds proposed back in the 1980s/1990s I believe. But the rate at which it is being introduced is incredibly slow... As is any UK infrastructure project.
I just had such double signal too. I think that is the exit signal and the actual place where you have to stop. in austria the 'E' board in switzerland the '1'/'2' board in arosa it's something red (can't remember) For bernina: yellow is the signal, red is place to stop, i think they both appear as a signal in the hud
Rather than trying to predict what the upcoming signals are, take each signal at its face value. Single yellow, is a cautionary aspect and you should be slowing prepared to stop at the next signal. It doesn't mean you *will* need to stop at the next signal. Sometimes a signal might be put on a max-yellow (in old times this would be done with something called a Fixed Distant, which is a distant signal that is actually incapable of moving, so its permanently on caution) - and this would be done as a reminder for the driver to slow down perhaps for some reason on the track up ahead such as a blind speed restriction or curve for example. In the UK you also have approach-release. These are signals which hold to yellow or red for a time, and then release to whatever the track up ahead permits. Again, this is done to slow trains down and ensure that they are below a certain speed before they proceed - if they're going too fast, then they will run the red, spad, and be brought to a stop by the TSS TPWS grid. You can see this in action on the Birmingham Cross Country route - some signals you'll approach on a yellow, you'll slow down and approach them and then for no apparent reason they'll bump to a green. It's just a timer (if the track ahead were blocked, it'd be stuck on a red - obviously track occupation and path alignment override any timer behaviour on the section for safety reasons). Matt.
DTG Matt Getting approach control in the sim was awesome! Such a cool system. As far as the next signal HUD, I like to turn the color off and leave it a gray circle. That way I know where the next signal is, but I can't see what it's displaying until it's actually visible. I think this is most realistic because a driver will know where the signals are on a given route.
We definitely need a “tea and biscuits” splash screen for when that happens, Matt. Certainly so far as the UK is concerned, during the course of my railway career I was lucky to have several (official) cab rides. The one thing just about every driver passed on and actually did was on sighting a yellow signal, or distant at caution is getting the brakes firmly on and that speed down. As they remarked, you don’t get a second chance to stop at the red. Better a phone call from Delay Attribution to explain a loss in running, which would go down to the signal check anyway, than potentially demotion or the sack for a SPAD. Generally in TSW and depending on how much route knowledge I’ve built up, on passing a single yellow I get speed down to 30 MPH or less, a double yellow maybe 50 or 60. I do run with signal location shown on the HUD but deliberately leave the aspect off.
OldVern I use the same speed target for UK runs. What's interesting is that they're similar to the hard limits imposed by the safety systems in other countries. 85 kph imposed by PZB after a yellow signal translates 52 mph, which is roughly the same speed I shoot for when first seeing any sign of a progression to stop in Network Rail territory. Wheels on rails are wheels on rails, regardless of the location.
Interesting just playing a bit of SimSig (Swindon/Didcot), the game has Class 1 HST's reducing to 85 MPH passing a double yellow signal and 40 MPH at a single yellow. Personally I would regard that as a bit on the fast side.
Yeah, if playing UK routes I will tend to reduce speed so will reach approx 30 or 25 at single yellow and around 40 at double yellow.
Interesting but there is/are/was no other train(s) in front of mine before those two green lights in any direction. Sure in real life but in the game if one passes the first red (place to stop) it ends the training/service(or time table depending on ver of TSW)/scenario. There is a setting that does they? Not like I want to do that but how/where is that setting? If only on PC, please say so.. Please and thank you
It's in the settings menu under the HUD & Gameplay tab as 'Next Signal Aspect' and can be toggled on or off. The signal position will remain in the track monitor but instead of a colour, it is greyed out.
How about why the light shows up as green when the next light is red - what is up with that? Please and thank you
The purpose of many signal aspects is to give information on the aspect of upcoming signal! You are referring to UK practice here - a yellow signal does not mean "prepare to stop" in all signalling systems. This is why the loading screen message in question must go. It is severely confusing.
Do you mean on the HUD? It can happen when you have a shunt signal cleared to drive into a loop or siding which has a red at the end. But I agree, the HUD should not show green in this instance as it implies the next signal is showing proceed.
There is a blue and white signals on many post-soviet railroads. Used on dwarf lights. Blue - shunting is forbidden, white - shunting is permitted. P.S. Sorry for offtop.
The way I see it is always be prepared to stop up ahead, whenever you see a yellow signal. Even if the next signal is green, be prepared to stop. Really you should always be prepared to stop up ahead no matter what the situation.
The HUD signal aspects are largely completely useless in telling you what the actual lineside signals are, because they're a traffic light system when actual signals are far more complicated. What shows up on a HUD as "yellow" may not even be yellow on the lineside signal, and what shows up as "green" on HUD may actually be an approach signal or Vr0 aspect. I never understood how DTG manages to program and simulate the complex signalling and dispatching systems of several countries but is somehow unable to translate this into HUD elements.
Because rendering all that complexity in a simple HUD system across all the different systems that the game represents is not practical. The HUD is simply showing you "green = clear to go", "red = stop before this signal" and "yellow = everything else". You'd end up with tiny icons that are barely visible and make even less sense to the majority of players. Matt.
To be honest, you should really know what the meaning of signals are before playing a route. I know exactly what UK signal aspects are from nearly 20 years of playing UK content and learning them off my own back. The HUD itself just acts as a permanent reminder of the aspect for me, I do not need it explaining what the signal aspects means during a driving sessions, and in my opinion nor should the HUD ever be changed to that. I use the HUD mainly to reassure myself of the cautionary aspects so I don't doubt myself and what I have seen, and nothing more. Isn't training centre exactly for that purpose, rather then the HUD? To explain signal aspects... There are many tutorials on signals that are tailored to each country on YouTube. The suggestion of having a HUD in game telling you what each signal means, just reduces the immersion, and secondly, as mentioned before, you should really learn what signal aspects means prior to driving a route and only rely on the HUD as a reference to reassure you of the signal aspect you have seen.
At my toc and many others wetry to use a maximum of half line speed past single yellows, that's a maximum (where reasonably possible) it's not set in stone and at many places you need to be way slower especially in London with the signals being very close to one another but in general it works quite well. Obviously a bit of route knowledge helps and you learn places that will most likely be showing restrictive signals ahead and adapt your driving accordingly. That being said we do have one place where we can pass a single yellow at nearly 100mph because of 3 aspect signalling and the limited sighting because of foliage. Makes it interesting coming round the corner seeing a red in the distance lol. Most people shut off early and lose a bit there just in case lol.
What about just adding a short text. Green icons could display "Clear", Red icons could display "Stop", and Yellow icons could display a several texts like "Expect red signal", "Reduce speed to X" or "Expect yellow signal". Wouldn't rely on tiny icons and would explain so much more than the current system. It may also help if signals indicating a reduced speed would actually enforce that speed limit, like TSC did. I mean, that's pretty much the way I learned how to read German signalling. I oversped a lot at first, but then I recognized patters and figured out what these German signals mean. Then I wrote a guide explaining German signals to others with my own logic, because I never found any guides which explained the signalling system in a way I could understand. I disagree. It's a game, just enjoy it and learn as you go. Learning by practice may actually be more helpful (and enjoyable) than reading all kinds of guides, which have the tendency to overcomplicate systems. And besides, the UK signalling system is by far the easiest one in the game. And although every country has a unique signalling system, the basics (green = clear, yellow = expect red, red = stop) is pretty much the same in all signalling systems in the game.
Spend £30 and then learn them as you go seems absolutely reasonable... There are many tutorials on YouTube around most types of signalling. And I'm sure training centre teaches you some of them? I disagree, I feel by adding such things, it would reduce the HUD to being a 'Fisher Price' type assistance that irritate more players then help them. It's really not hard to learn signalling and I'm sure there are actual tutorials in the game that help with this? And failing that there are comprehensive tutorials on YouTube... I learnt PZB and the German signalling through a video Matt made and once I learnt it I haven't looked back since. Further more, isn't that exactly what the Track Monitor HUD is for? For people who aren't hardcore anoraks like me and need assistance with basic tasks in the game? The HUD for me is perfectly fine as it is, and in actual fact mines on the most minimal it can be. I've found no issue whatsoever with how the HUD displays signalling, it works. There seems to a reasonable amount of training content to help people, but it's how people utilise it and make the most of it. I think to simplify the HUD anymore will make it feel like a Fisher Price toy.
Yes, I'm going to spend 30 quid on a route and then not play it cos I'm too busy watching Youtube videos on signalling People play how they want to play, I have full HUD on at all times and I have no wish to drive "authentically" and I also drive ICE in Bakerloo tunnels just like solicitr. How does that float your boat Leave your insistence on how other people should play a game that they paid for with their own money in your own brain
You're aware the subject we are talking about is hypothetical? How can I insist on telling people how to play, when the function were are debating about doesn't exist in the game? I'm arguing that an extension of the existing HUD wouldn't be preferable to me... As an opinion. You want to take the opposite stance then you're well within your rights too. But my argument is, to simplify the HUD anymore to tell people what every literal signal means every time they play is quite silly. It would further cater to the 'casual gamer' demographic and dilute the game more. You can play the game exactly how you want, with exactly what HUD you want Mr. Elliot, but I think you have your wires crossed, unless I've misunderstood, because I'm arguing against further enhancing the HUD to tell people literal words based commands on how to react to a signal. And I stick by my original point, and do no think it's necessary given how much training and HUD support already exists in the game.
The bolded text was in your first post as the first sentence with no prior discussion on any changes being made, so no it wasn't at that point hypothetical The conversation has moved on, but your borderline dictating how people should play a game is unwelcome at best. Noone has any right to dictate how anyone else plays a game Keep it to yourself
Is the heat getting to you or something?! You seem to be overacting just a tiny bit... Quite an unusually emotional reaction to a small debate? No one is dictating how anyone should play, only offering a perspective from their own point of view. How is saying "you should really know what the meaning of signals before playing" in anyway dictating how you or other players play the game? Am I suggesting you play without the HUD? Nope. I'm suggesting, which I've already mentioned, that an extension of the current HUD to have a verbal message telling you what signal aspects are next is not necessary... I don't see how that is flaring up such ratty response from yourself? Training already exists in the game, tutorials on signalling are also available, and if people want to play with the HUD on the maximum setting then so be it? I'm stating that any further extension to the HUD wouldn't be necessary given the above facts. The only person making dictatorship type statements seem to be you, by demanding I 'keep my opinion to myself', when expressing your opinion is EXACTLY what a forum is for. You can disagree with me, that's part of the charm of the forum is being able to debate with others back and forth and generate different perspectives and insights. But you don't need to be so rude, and confrontational... Certainly out of character for you, as you usually are the chap with a sense of humour on the forum.
"I didn't type that thing you thought I typed and even if I did you completely misinterpreted it" Pull the other one chum
"The suggestion of having a HUD in game telling you what each signal means, just reduces the immersion, and secondly, as mentioned before, you should really learn what signal aspects means prior to driving a route and only rely on the HUD as a reference to reassure you of the signal aspect you have seen." That is quoted from my original message? Exactly what I'm talking about, and stated many times now, I'm against the idea of having the HUD physically telling you what the next signal aspect is by the means of a verbal prompt which was suggestion I'm counter arguing too. I'd rather pull nothing if it's all the same to you, if this is twitchy response I get! I think you have misinterpreted my post though, for sure... But I think it's best we both leave it now before it spirals into back and forth name calling and maliciousness.
As a counterpoint to this (and raised in the dedicated feedback thread) the Bernina Line as built by Rivet does not have any distant (vor) signals to indicate the state of the exit signal from a crossing loop or station. The home signal gets one but not the starter. Trying to find out if this is prototypical or whether Rivet dropped the proverbial dangly bits (shock, horror at the thought). In any case, Old Vern had a SPAD at Stablini as a result of this and now waiting to see what the Swiss equivalent of tea and biscuits is!
There definitely some signalling on Bernina that seems odd, OldVern . I had a SPAD almost immediately as I was pulling out of Campocologno, I think it was, heading south. On my second attempt I noticed there was what appears to be an invisible signal. At the end of the passing loop, maybe around 50m away or so, there was a red signal, but the SPAD on the first run had triggered after only a few metres. So, I looked at the map with the 9 key there are actually 2 signals, one right at the end of the platform (which is invisible) and one at the end of the loop. I actually think the one at the end of the loop is too close to the points and would be unsafe it you pulled right up to it. Maybe this is how the real signalling works, but it seems strange. I should have taken a screenshot, I'll see if I can get one later.
From what I understand of RhB signalling at stations/loops, the single starter signal is positioned beyond the points and trains have to stop at a marker board with the signal indicating which line has the road. Certainly an odd arrangement over each line having its own dedicated signal.
Correct, you have to wait before the number signs (red circles) main signal will switch to green when track 1 can proceed or will switch to green/yellow when track 2 can proceed (or the opposite)
