With the revamped timetable for SKA, the BR185 from MSB doesn't layer on this route anymore. As I don't own SKW, this means no freight trains drivable or as AI. I'm just wondering why it's done this way, as you need MSB anyway for the BR146 + dosto's. Is the BR185 from SKW better, and if so, why not make it a choise which one you want to use?
I just drove the MSB br 185.2 on the new SKA timetable. In fact, I had the choice of the RSN, MSB, Vorarlberg, and the KWG Br 185.2. This is on PS5 by the way.
So this mean, you have to own Kassel Wurzburg to choose the different versions and able to use the MSB one.... I now don't have any freight train
That's the thing. If you own all layers there is no problem. The combinations of locos and wagons from different DLC packs means you have to own quite a lot to play part of the services.
On the original and New journeys timetable, the BR185 from MSB layers on. Different wagons are also included with MSB, so I'm not that happy with this particular change.
A newly released timetable is obviously going to use newer released content. The MSB version was used back then because those original timetables were released way back in TSW2 when all the 185 variants then available were fundamentally identical. The 185 variants released more recently have recieved sound tweaks, updated radial blur and even suspension physics. Of course the new 2025 timetable is going to rely on those, because in what possible logical world would you have all that available to you, and then still choose to use the worse version? It makes literally no sense. The MSB variant doesn't offer anything that the newer versions don't also offer, plus more modern extras. It is literally the exact same locomotive, but fundamentally worse. That the MSB version can be subbed in afterwards is really just a consequence of how substitution is coded, I highly doubt there is even a single soul in DTG who ever intended for that to be the intended way of playing. The MSB 185 is over half a decade out of date now and four game versions behind us, it long ago stopped being the German route which most people owned. KWG was the core route of TSW3, something far more recent which far more people today are likely to own plus from what I recall it was during the TSW3 era that this timetable entered development in the first place. Ultimately MSB and all its stock are an afterthought of ancient TSW history at this point, and unless it got a remaster which is highly unlikely to happen, it's simply illogical and short sighted to expect otherwise. Upgrade and move on.
Being newer is not a good argument to me as you still need MSB for the those "old" BR146 and dosto's. MSB has always been a layer for SKA, so to me it's more logical to keep MSB as layer for the BR185 too. I bought MSB mainly to layer on SKA, so I have the dosto's and freight. If you want to drive a newer version of the BR185, you still can choose to use that one. Kassel - Wurzburg isn't even worth buying for me.
Okay first off, how the hell can you exist in German TSW without ICE 1 layers? That thing is easily in my top 5 German trains! Then I guess you just lose out. The newness alone is not what is a factor here, it's the fact that more people will have a newer release than one that came out over half a decade ago. How long ago did you do this? Would you really have such a problem doing it again for a massively enhanced version of the route? Also for the record, the ICE1 from it layers into the timetable also and has 9 services. Maybe grab it on a sale? Again, MSB long ago stopped being the brand new base German route that everyone owned. That has moved on to the base routes of more recent TSW releases, such as KWB which was the core route of TSW3. They make these layers depend on the most popular routes in order to maximise how many people have access to them, and MSB simply isn't that anymore. It's short, old and incredibly outdated by every single metric. It's not about which item is cheaper or which item has more features and updates. It's simply about which item has sold the most units in the past, therefor maximising how many people have access to that layer. New releases generally layer based on the core routes of their platform. You can see this very prevelantly in UK freight content - TSW4 and TSW5 releases both started using the respective PBO and WCMLS versions of the Class 66 and FKA flats, either as layers or the bases for new releases entirely. Logically you might then say that the SKA timetable released in TSW5 and so should have used Frankfurt - Fulda's Vectron as the base layer, and you would be right - if it had been developed specifically for TSW5. It wasn't. Look back on the roadmaps and you'll find that this timetable has been in development and just delayed since TSW3, when KWB was the base route. Also TSW3 didn't have the free starter pack, so if you were a German enjoying player getting TSW3, you got it with KWB full stop. Nearly everyone had it. Once upon a time MSB was the route that everyone owned, and layers were based on it. I believe it is even still left over as a layer on SEHS where some European car transporters are in the yards at Dagenham Docks. But that is simply no longer the case, and unfortunately in a system where the company naturally will cater to the majority, a very simple logic applies - move with the times or get left behind.
Some history: I've start playing the first TSW back in the day on PS4. After the switch to Xbox end 2021, I bought the TSW2 Rush hour edition. I played a bit but was occupied by other games. Early 2024 I bought TSW4 and played mainly Voralberg, Riesa Dresden and later on Linke Rheinstrecke. With the news of this year about the new timetable for SKA, I start playing this route. I liked it, but with only 2 trains it's also very quiet. So I bought at first MSB for the BR146 and freight and New Journeys for S-bahn. Some later I also bought HRR + BR101 for the BR425 and BR101 and the route came to live. I purchased them all full price, as Xbox sales are rare and often for newer routes. By playing SKA, MSB and HRR, I noticed, the older routes are running way better then the newer (TOD4) routes and I'm also not a big fan of TOD4 in general. So I'm mainly playing the older routes now. I do not like to drive high speed trains, it's a boring drive from point A to B for me. I'm more into S-bahn and regional services and sometimes I do freight. But I mainly like to see freight trains as AI, the same for ICE trains. The chance I will drive the ICE myself is very small, if I want to drive something faster, I prefer to drive the BR101. That beeing said, I don't think there any numbers about the sale of specific routes. I suppose by now most players of German routes do own MSB for the BR146 anyway, same as HRR for the BR101. Except Linke Rheinstrecke and Niddertalbahn, TSW3 was underwhelming to me and not worth the purchase. How much I like free timetable updates, when it's removing the base layers, it's kind to force you to buy another route for the same train you own already. Besides this, the revamped timetable is crashing for me since later updates, while on the faulty early release it was fine.
All valid points, we all drive in our own styles. I suppose I'm quite impulsive and will literally drive any service type whenever I feel like it. Yes a lot of people probably do own MSB and probably grabbed it on a sale at least, but it is still very old and something which DTG left behind a long time ago. In fact this applies to almost every pre-TOD4 route, very infrequently do any of those routes get a significant update unless it's a remaster bringing it to TOD4. The only two examples I can actually think of are this timetable and the 218 getting a timetable in Hamburg. Out of curiosity, you never mentioned upgrading so are you still playing on PS4? Because that would certainly explain TOD4 performing worse than older routes, on my PS5 I don't notice as much of a difference. Also considering recent trends, I doubt gen 8 performance is something that's too big of a concern for them anymore as with the number of releases these days that are gen 9 exclusive and the full timetable of Frankfurt S-Bahn even being PC exclusive, I would not be surprised if TSW6 was gen 9 only, and from there they can basically just abandon thinking about gen 8 forever. What I will agree on is that KWB might not have been the best choice for the freight layer, I would have changed it to Frankfurt - Fulda considering it's a newer release which more people are likely to have. But then again the ICE1 is still in the timetable so KWB would still have been required anyway, and in this case it might be a similar situation to why the WSR steam timetable used Peak Forest for its layer rather than SOS - it would have been required regardless for the 4f and everything in SOS was already included with PFR, so it was just a case of streamlining how many individual layers are actually needed. Ease of access and, I would imagine, optimisation.
I'm playing TSW5 on Series S. TSW2 and older routes I can play on 4K mode, with a good enough framerate. On newer routes the FPS can dip to low on 4K, so even VRR can't help. I would be fine with playing in a lower resolution, however the HD mode looks terrible. I even don't know if Frankfurt - Fulda is a better layer for freight. If people only have the free starter pack, they also miss out on freight. So maybe DTG have to find a solution for this, so you can choose what layers you want to use for a certain train.
Okay, eating my hat now. TSW6 literally just got confirmed for Gen 8. Personally for the sake of the future of the series, I believe that to potentially be a mistake, but there we go.
I saw the roadmap on Reddit, didn't know yet it's for Gen 8 too. Oh boy,.oh boy, what to say about this....?
The only explanation I can think of is that the performance improvements they've been working on might be actually that good that gen 8 is back in the running for being a stable platform again. Matt did once say that being able to do major core updates and patches was one of the benefits of the annual releases, so it's possible. But then again even if they do that, gen 9 will still be even better than that by miles as it will have a similar level of improvement too, so it will still be behind.
