Is Dovetail Games Finally Getting It Together?

I'm not sure what people think, but I think DTG and TSW are finally improving their ways!

Yes there are still a number of bugs and issues in game but from what I've heard and seen they're finally getting things together.

Let me explain.

1. Core optimisation & patches - DTG are always releasing an update fixing certain in-game issues. They seem committed to fixing these issues and problems and trying to get them sorted.

2. Beta testers & DTG Playlabs - Matt put out a request for new beta testers as well as starting a new initiative called Playlabs (Yes the latter maybe for their new games, but it could also be for TSW 6) Getting the community involved in development will benefit DTG massively so it's good to see they're doing this.

3. Announcing TSW 6 'early' - Announcing TSW 6 'early' is a great way for as DTG put it 'helps us join in the conversations, stay open and engaged' which is exactly what we want as a community. They can avoid leaks (not just from JD!) and build up even more hype! As well as being transparent with the community about what is going on.

4. Expansion & Growth - DTG are also expanding their variety of games from Roblox, VR and Thomas & Friends to whatever they have in-store for us this year. As well as getting even more third-party developers involved which helps to take the strain off of DTG developing everything. Take the Free Starter Pack for example this is another great way to get more players into the world of TSW.

To summarise I believe that DTG are finally improving their ways and we can look forward to a strong Dovetail Direct and TSW 6 launch.

What do you think?

 

Buggy or not, I enjoy the game.

However, my somewhat negative take is that TSW5 has been the worst so far. We are almost at TSW6 and WCML(S) has only recently got it’s dodgy AWS triggers sorted and there still aren’t any passengers at Euston. The console performance issues are quite unacceptable.

Now credit to DTG they have released a lot of fixes recently and fairly regular updates and I believe Matt when he says they are working to resolve the issues. But the minimum for me to say that DTG have turned a corner is that every scenario in every DLC can be competed and every Journey mode can be completed and that is not currently the case.

I hope TSW6 will be better and I’m sure I’ll enjoy it anyway, but being realistic, it’s the same core as every year with new bits bolted on and the more bits they bolt on, it seems the less well it runs.

Hope my pessimism is proved wrong.

 

Is this a joke?

 

It certainly looks like DTG are doing their best to make the TSW6 release as smooth as possible, and avoid another leak/license issue/bugged route like last year.

I can see a few regular forum posters are silent these days, which hopefully means some of the more vocal members of this community are right up in there on the QA / Beta Testing side of it - helping to polish the game way before us regulars get our hands on it!

I can see TSW6 becoming a big hit, forced to be great, to avoid a repeat of last time - and it seems like certain announcements over the last few months are helping to fuel a healthy amount of speculation to avoid a major leak again.

 

I don't think you can say they're getting their act together until they've managed to release TSW6 with all dlc available on release with no issues, fixed the core performance issues, and released 3 routes with high quality (I'm looking at you WCMLS). I'd rather them focus on those 3 things that adding features which take half a year to release if I'm honest.

We need the content released to be of a higher quality. We don't need a ton of flashy new bells and whistles, we just need a game that runs well and looks good

 

It all depends on whether they overstretch themselves or the capabilities of the game with the new features and/or over ambitious route choices or keep things relatively simple and stable. DTG have the capability to turn what should be a great achievement into a horror show and then have to spend the entirety of the tenure of one game iteration and beyond chasing their tail trying to get it all to work properly. It is what usually happens so there’s no expectation from me that TSW6 will be a smooth transition. Perhaps by May next year it will all be fine.

 

I think part of the problem with the 'new' game releases for DTG is that in offering a new title, they have to expand the feature set of the game to make it worthwhile and that surely cannot be helping them keep on top of issues.

It's a double edged sword really, the more features you add the more complications you have to deal with. But the fewer you have, the more questionable the point of the new game is.

 

I love that there's this thread that says "Is Dovetail Games Finally Getting It Together" and then there's another thread someone made titled "Train Sim World 6 is Doomed"

 

Well probably not because by that time TSW7 will be on its wsy and any remaining issues with " 6 " would be quietly swept under a rug in DTG's lunch room.

 

It takes deeds to convince me. Not marketing.
Apart from "1. Core optimisation & patches", I haven't seen the rest in action yet. Nor have I seen TSW6 yet.

 

I find this hilarious!

 

Matt is in the Threads!!

 

And as I said in the "doomed" thread, at this point we do not know the answer.

TSW6 could go either way. If we get some meaningful core and QOL improvements (looking at you, more than one save slot) and some cracking content then it will be a success. However if it brings a few cosmetic changes, a half baked UK Rivet route and another US commuter plod through semi arid suburbia then it could struggle.

But at this stage all we can do is sit back and await the gen, to coin the old bashing phrase.

 

It does feel that since early 2025 and also the WCMLS debacle that they may be taking the optimisation issues seriously. It's taken till the game has become near unplayable on console (crashes, texture issues etc...) for it to happen.

But it does feel like DTG have now woken up to the fact they need to optimise the game before it completely falls apart. Just listening to the last roadmap stream and a few threads on here where either Alex or Matt have said stuff, reading between the lines of those comments - about how they're finding things that make the game run better - that they've never really looked at it before. Big question is why not?

But I suppose better late than never, but also the phrase the proof is in the pudding comes to mind. We shall see.

 

Maybe we could merge them so it becomes "Is Dovetail Games Finally Getting Train Sim World 6 together with Doom"

 

Wasn't Choo Choo Charlie the shunned lovechild of TSW and Doom.......

 

Choo Choo Charles is probably the closest we have

 

They still haven't fixed the running sounds on Fife circle which got removed with the first patch or told rivet to get their act together and fix them so that's a bummer.

Apart from that, I still enjoy TSW!

 

I joint the franchise in TSW2.

TSW5 has been by far the worse iteration so far. TSW2, TSW3, and TSW4, all ended their life in quite a good shape, while TSW5 still suffers the blurred issues and the reduced time table in consoles gen 9. For me unacceptable.

 

TSW4 was the first version I played a lot of. It was stable and worked well for me (PC, Steam) by the time of TSW5's launch, and I can't honestly say that TSW5 is better in any way now than TSW4 was at the same point in its life cycle, apart from perhaps the live map (which I know has impacted others).

 

It also really depends on which platform you're playing on. If you ask people with a console, the answer is completely different than someone with a PC. Comparing the experiences in general terms is like comparing apples to oranges, if you ask me.

 

We will see what tsw6 brings.

If they have taken a step back from 'gimmick' features in order to optimise the core of the game properly for a year I think it'll be in a good place.

I think the routes they pick for the next game will be a good litmus test. Whether they are choosing routes that players want and are able to bring to their full potential on all systems, or they just cut content for non pc players and call it a day.

 

I do find myself agreeing with this...

Overall, every yearly edition of TSW has been an evolution over previous editions of the game. TSW3 and TSW4 were really good examples of that (SE High Speed Extended still holds up to modern standards for me. And ECML the following year was a really nicely built route with really nicely built rolling stock).

TSW5, while having really nice features such the photography element, was pretty deflating and uneventful overall. Whether that be because of the chronic unstableness of the game, or the UK content under DTGs name taken a huge tumble in terms of quality (and without going into a separate rant, a certain R is the main suspect behind that). This has probably been the most unenjoyable variation of the title to date. The saving grace that kept me onboard of TSW5 has been developers like Just Trains WCMLOS which is a fabulous bit of content, as well as Johannes NLL route (and commitment of it being extended to Richmond). Without those two things in the mix, I would of have had an extended break from it.

The flagship WCMLS had the recipe of being the best modern UK content to date, but was a SEVERE let down (I can not emphasize that word enough). Initially it was extremely deflating and underwhelming. The disappointment I felt playing it was unreal and frustrating purely because of the sloppyness, build quality of the route, and half a*** time table. Add to that the crashes and instability of the game... Really bad. And I sincerely hope going forward that DTG can accept the quality of the WCMLS was bad, by their standards. Times a healer, but I still hardly play the route because of how disappointing I still find it compared to what it could be. Where the bloody hell has the rest of Liams work that looked to be it saviour gone?! No updates, just turned into dust... I hope maybe the optimisation issues later in the month and in TSW6 bring this to the WCMLS. It will prove what potential that route has.

Anyway, I think what DTG has to understand is, we all know that most of DTGs original UK contents quality was really decent before TSW5 and we all know that those behind the scenes at DTG are perfectly capable people, with really good skills, and when we see that quality decline in front of us (like in the case of WCMLS) it really shows and effects their reputation. But, I think a distinction needs to be drawn and understood... It's not because the community are nit picking, it's because we know DTG is completely capable and skilled enough to produce top tier content, and when we see 'R' tier content, we know you can do MUCH better as a team!

The German and US stuff doesn't seem to have been affected by quality decline to badly compared to the UK counterparts.

I hope TSW6 has taken every bit of the fair criticism received in TSW5 and turned it around into the quality we come to expect of DTG... I think personally DTG haven't let me down (as an individual obviously, not reflective of everyone) as a player and customer up until TSW5 and I was always a keen defender of them. I'm hoping lessons have been learnt internally and that TSW6 re establishes DTGs image and reputation for quality and I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt now until proven otherwise.

But, if 'R' has been involved in this years UK content, DTG really would be shooting themselves in the foot. I don't particularly care who is involved in outsourcing and building, but when quality dips, it shows, and if customer feed back is important, I'd advise against using a company with really poor feedback on a majority of their content... Or at least leaving the responsibility of large projects to them because they obviously can't handle them. (But just to state, only small elements of Rivets work have ever been confirmed officially. But my speculation around UK quality is Rivet are the outsourced company that builds the majority of UK content. Route building, timetable and sounds are not their niche. 3D modelling I have no criticism over).

 

The biggest frustration is when things keep getting broken. Stuff that was working previously can suddenly start misbehaving or we see a repeat of the same issues over and over again. DTG Matt said a good long while ago that they were putting together a master document of some kind so that every route is consistent with features and whatnot. Haven’t heard much more about this.

 

If they outsource to Rivet then fair enough but their work needs to be triple and quadruple checked and if need be given a buff by the in house route building team. The tunnels alone on WCMLS should never have made it to the release version. Portals that look incorrect to the prototype, the mismatch with the tunnel bore, the obvious repeating wall pattern. That’s something a freeware route builder would think twice about putting out.

Although slightly better build quality, the German and US routes for TSW5 turned out to be nothing special. The Frankfurt to Fulda route is still a performance hog even on PS5. The train service boiled down to the usual mix ICE’s, Dosto’s and red EMU’s And if you thought it couldn’t get more boring than AVL, welcome to SBO. A pretty much straight shot through semi arid suburbia, not particularly fast and 50% of the timetable in a cab car. Freeways with floating vehicles and not a big rig truck in sight. Must try harder there as well, for TSW6.

I’d like to think lessons have been learned from TSW5, well we will see in a couple of months or so.

 

I’d say an emphatic no.

They have fallen into the trap of not having the resources to fix, test, create and release, it always feels like they are spread too thin, and further projects and games just exasperate it further.

TSW 5 has been the most underwhelming version by a mile.

The blurred textures have gotten worse this iteration, bordering on unplayable.

Passengers don’t perform properly. They get off the train at the start, they don’t board and they get stuck. sometimes they don’t appear at all.

The routes have become shorter and simpler and the assets you used to get less, for your money.

They’ve also started to cut content, even for gen 9 because of performance which I find incredible.

I still can’t finish middenwaldbahn end to end on Xbox, Fulda has to have ice turned off to avoid crashes, S bahn which I was really looking forward to, is a ghost town and short on content that other users got. Mildmay is unbelievably poor on XboxSX.

It’s also become difficult to manage. Tons of gbs that need to be downloaded every year, long loading times.

The shadows on track was a welcome addition and the pop in has become more reduced and a bit smoother but not eradicated completely.

It really has to hit the mark in this next version.

 

I'm looking forward to finding out what's coming before I decide whether it's good news. Selfishly I'm hoping they are taking a break from London Midland Region content. That's not to say it's bad, I just want some variety and something closer to home that I would build if I had the skills.

However, in general, I'm fairly happy with TSW these days and even happier with DTG's improvements, life is one long lesson and we should all learn how to improve along the way. The quality and quantity of releases is improving.

I do find it hilarious when people who have absolutely no idea of what's coming predict that bugs from TSW5 won't be fixed. I really do fear for the mental health of some people who immediately expect the worst. Maybe the ragebait nature of social media has bred this. Personally, I think I benefited from growing up in an age without social media where, if I was being an idiot, my mates would take me to one side and tell me as much. It's harder in the online friends space, which leads to marginalised individuals saying deliberately provocative negative things to get noticed. It's very sad because I know there's a healthier way to live, because between 1972 and 2010 I survived perfectly well without any social media and I had a brilliant life.

 

How can it be rage bait?

Lets look at the dlc releases this iteration:

Wcml - wrong timetable, crashing issues, unfinished
San ber- minor issues, ok.
Fulda - performance issues, blurry textures, crashing
Mildmay - blurry issues, missing passengers, performance issues
Dutch route - Fine
S bahn - controversial, cut content, performance issues
Manchester - too short, better performance, some blurs, some crashes.
Mittenwaldbahn - can’t complete a journey on Xbox, performance issues
Koln timetable update - blurred textures
Shap - decent
Kaiserslautern - missing stuff at launch, blurred textures

That’s off the top of my head.

That’s every route bar 2 I’d say that actually released in a worthy state.

 

I think you've interpreted what you wanted to interpret from my post.
I was musing on the "ragebait" culture, I wasn't specifically saying that complaints (some of them perfectly legitimate, some of them subjective) are ragebait per se.

 

Have you already got access to new version to claim that this time it is a real optimization and the situation has improved significantly? And not the usual big words and 1,5 superficial fixes?

Oh no, no one knew about the plans for TSW 6. How unexpected!

You already have a list of all the new addons and extensions, and it just boggles the mind?

The topic is based on the advertising brochure "Why is TSW 6 so important for your life and how dare you live without it before!"
I mean, it's too early to rejoice. Since at the moment, apart from the advertising brochure of the very fact of the future announcement, we have nothing to see.

 

I've spent my entire life, 70+ years, without any social media and I haven't felt deprived at all. Still read newspapers and magazines, still write letters and frequently talk to people face to face. My only concessions to internet communications are some email and this forum.

Any criticism of TSW comes from my own critical thinking and I don't use AI which unfortunately seems to be increasing on this forum and everywhere else.

 

I'm neither a fool or a troll, I'm a very laid back non angry person that can see the bigger picture of life and what important in it. All I've done is repeat what you have posted on this forum, and laugh at the stupidity of said posts......

 

Have you tried decaf?

Seriously, I mean you do seem to be perpetually angry and upset about most everything. It's not healthy.

Not saying you shouldn't criticise the game. Many of us do. But maybe not with personal attacks. Even if someone provokes you, take it with a dose of humor.

Or ignore it, maybe use your ignored list?

 

No again you just assume because you are reading my posts in the forum.

My job in real life is to help make products the best they can be, because successful products allow a company to grow. I’ve been doing it for 25 years across games, apps, it software, websites, intranets.

So I get irked when I purchase software that doesn’t do what’s promised, has obvious bugs that’s shouldn’t get past QA in it and a host of other things.

It’s not like DTG are the most responsive devs out there either, I get the impression they are a smallish team with only so much capacity and like any software company, the big bosses above only care about the bottom line and the shareholders pockets.

So in effect I don’t blame DTG on that front. But we have a right to keep banging the drum until we are heard and things improve. Of course voting will wallets would be a start but no one wants to do that because they’d rather have broken dlc than working dlc.

And that’s why posters like me get singled out because the truth irks.

Im fairly happy in life and don’t have too much to complain about, but when I’m being asked to drop 25+ on content I expect it to be 90pc there. When I’m asked to invest time and money in routes because of layers, I don’t expect to be told “sorry, we can’t have a full timetable because of memory issues” it doesn’t wash, I’m sorry.

 

Can't disagree with that.

 

I expect some bugs of course that’s normal, but there’s been a lot of stuff that can’t be ignored. I’m on shap now in Xbox and every now and again my livery will blur

 

Hear Hear

 

You keep falling into the holes you dig.

 

It was me who reported you for a personal attack on @Crustynuggets. In case you were wondering.

 

Not sure why you would do that if it has nothing to do with you, if the guy wanted to report him for a personal attack they could have done so... You weren't involved so why try and involve yourself and then say that.

 

"between 1972 and 2010 I survived perfectly well without any social media and I had a brilliant life."

Social media - what is Social media?

 

Just because he wasn't the one being attacked doesn't mean he shouldn't report it.

 

I think Wiven is the one in need of a hug.

Personal attack? You better not step into the real world pal, if that's your bar, you might have a heart attack.

 

Because they are all really, really, really sensitive.

 

Beary nice