Out Now Class 86 Loco Out Now!

Too expensive

 

I tend to agree. $25 for a loco pack is more than I want to pay. Wait for a sale.

 

I was going to buy but I’ve decided it’s too expensive for what I would get from it right now. Let’s compare… £33 for the long detailed route, the Class 87 and all the rolling stock, plus the entire timetable using all the great trains - excellent value. £20 for just the Class 86 and the rolling stock and no new services - not enough value. It just doesn’t compute. Sorry JT peeps, it’s a great loco but it’s too high a price. I am waiting for a lower price (a sale) or better value (say if the loco has more extra gameplay in future routes).

 

New train, new coaches, new driving experience, realistic loco allocations. (The latter is often sought but then people complain when it actually happens. Ironic.)

Unfortunately, I won't be able to touch it until at least Friday. But you can guarantee I will get it some point.

 

Come on. No one is saying that loco allocations shouldn't be realistic.

But "more realistic loco allocations" on it's own isn't the strongest argument to sell a loco pack on, at least not for anyone but the hardcore fans. It could be the thing that makes me buy an otherwise-average pack, but not one that has no new timetable services at all, a higher-than-usual price, and a loco that's pretty similar to the one it replaces.

 

I have no doubt this would be an excellent loco, but I agree with the above sentiment around value. The 142 & 87 were also excellent & already at a great level of quality, but they also had really good routes attached to them for not much more money. £20 just seems a bizarre price point when compared to those.

I can’t help but wonder if I’d feel the same if they’d ‘correctly’ done the 86 as the base loco for WCML, then done the 87 as a DLC unit, potentially adding more services & also there may have been room to include the 87/1. Paying equal to 2/3 of the route cost to get a correct loco allocation is just too much to stomach.

Ultimately I find the 86 DLC to be quite unfortunate, it’s too much money to correct the rolling stock allocation & the 87 just seems like it would make for a better stand alone product.

 

The price covers: the loco, the coaches that come with it, and the quality. I'll get more enjoyment from this alone than I ever have from entire routes (which are more expensive) such as Cardiff City or Fife Circle.

And, while the 86 and 87 are similar, they're completely different. One has less power and a lower top speed. So the driving experience of each will be completely different.

Those reasons are why I see the price as justified: a high quality loco, some extra coaches (brand new to TSW altogether), realistic loco allocations for the actual services they ran in real life. And I can use them anywhere I want.

 

I played it last night. I think for £20 is pretty fair, you can see how much love has gone into this product, the sound, the GFx, detail is staggering, as with all JT products, so you know what your getting. As with all JT products for TSW, this is brilliant, and it is such an immersive drive. It is brilliant.

 

Good for you! Genuinely. I do completely understand how this pack is appealing if you're specifically interested in (this era of) British railways. I just don't think that it's a good value proposition for more casual fans such as myself. Of course that could change if the 86 gets more gameplay on future routes - and I hope it does, because it does look very well-made, as usual for JT.

 

Yes it’s quite noticeable when driving the 86, you have to manage the tap changer much more carefully. Looking forward to trying with a traction motor isolated. Have posted my initial thoughts in the Feedback thread, got a few reservations about the coach interior colouring in the Mark 2F’s, but overall a good deal. Was also pleased to find none of Journey runs had been ticked off as previously done with the 87.

 

For me it's $32CAD bit much to pay for

 

Those frames on the bogies are far, far too low - they almost look like large 3rd Rail shoes!

 

This is why. The below is from the feedback thread.
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...ter-feedback-thread.92638/page-2#post-1021081

 

Not long since clocked up my 750th mile in the 86 and couldn't be happier with it. My knowledge of 'all things' trains is evidently minimal compared to many on here, so I haven't really picked up on any minor detail to be honest.

Definitely feels a little more challenging to drive than the 87, but certainly no less fun.

Now JT, if you could just sort out the Pacer announcements on the Morecambe line you would very much be top of the class

 

You pay for what you get...

Not once have I questioned the prices of JTs products. I feel if you buy Sainsburys own brand low cost chocolate compared to the premium quality and more expensive chocolate, you'll certainly taste the difference, and this is no different to me. For £19.99 you are getting a retro expert level type locomotive recreated, with authentic sounds, Mk2F rolling stock (with authentically sourced sounds), a MK1 RMB and all the man hours it has taken to create this lovely and detailed pack. It's not just one product you're getting, it's a 3 in 1 essentially, hence the price (a very fair price at that). If you wanted the the product any cheaper I guarantee you'd have to make a compromise somewhere in the pack, and personally I don't fancy that.

If a developer puts time and effort into a product and spares no expense to make it detailed and authentic, I'm happy paying for that product. If you want cheap and cheerful DLC then you my friend are going to have to compromise somewhere... Maybe that suits other people, but as a anorak myself with an eye for detail I like paying the asking price to make sure more content of the same quality continues by developers.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with people who like a sale, but some of these comments moaning about prices just sound like people who are as tight as a camels axxx in a sand storm... The simple answer is, if you don't like the product or don't like the price wait for a sale or don't purchase it at all, that is well within your control and no one is forcing you to buy it!

 

This really doesn't feel like a premium product if you ask me, it seems about on par with DTG's own loco DLC's for NTP & TVL. Frankly I'd go as far as to say that those were all better because all of those engines had far more unique driving experiences and genuinely added new content to their respective timetables. The 86 & 87 just don't feel all that different, the 86 is perhaps slightly more sluggish, but it certainly ain't as noticeable to me as say the 40 vs 45 on NTP.

And before someone "what about"'s me, yes, you get a corridor to walk between the cabs, and yes, you get some extra liveries. Those on their own hardly feel like it warrants a $5 increase (at least here in the states) when the 87 came with those for the same increase, but in a route, which in itself is vastly longer than anything we've had prior which likely took a fair bit of that extra $5 in itself. And again, when those older BR DLC's had their fair chunk of timetable additions, which is lacking with the 86. so it's really a bit of give and take.

IMO if anyone on the fence gets the gut feeling that you're buying a duplicate of the 86 I'd follow it, don't feel pressured to buy it. I love JT's content, I don't even think the 86's a bad bit of kit, but this also isn't the raising of the bar that their routes have been. So in my book it's hardly a essential purchase compared to their prior offerings.

 

That’s kind of where I’m at after buying it and going for a run last night. Quality is top notch, no surprise there given it’s made by JT, but other than been a bit more sluggish than the 87 and needing to more carefully manage notching up when accelerating, I largely felt like I was driving an 87 so I’m not sure there’s enough here for me to keep the 86 at full price (as a relative lay person on British Rail equipment).

Also it seems rail driver support is missing, so I found myself saying “why wouldn’t I just drive the 87?” Again, no knock on the work by JT, just not sure such a similar locomotive is for me.

 

Well, isn't that what we, who question the price, are saying and doing?

So what's your beef? That we are voicing our opinion?

Calling people cheapskates because they think something is too expensive is insulting. You're out of line sir.

I, for one, have thousands of dollars invested in TSW/TSC, some of it spent on products that were disappointing or over-priced.

I'm not complaining. My eyes were wide open. As they are with this product.

 

I've not bought this one yet, I have a few TSW routes I really like and tend to stick with those, most of those being the 1980s era stuff because that's what I grew up with, I've done Blackpool to death several times over and really like the West Coast route too. I only saw an 86 a few times, they were very foreign to where I lived largely due to a lack of OHLE, so I really wasn't excited enough to buy it on day one. I'm definitely going for it when I get a bit further down the line, Steam are always dropping surprise sales so I might wait to see if I can pick up a deal. The trick with steam is the add the product to your wishlist and you'll get an email notification when its reduced.

 

No, I'm not out of line at all, my beef is there are to many self entitled people who believe things should be cheaper purely for their own convenience and moan about the price of a newly released add on. So I stick by my original opinion, that it does come across as being more then frugal when people moan about the price in this instance.

Also the fact that JT could of easily sold the Mk2F and MK1 RMB as separate DLC separate like some other developers would have and could have got even more money out of the product. Instead they have developed 3 separate items into a reasonably priced bundle and people are still moaning about the price? It's one thing to develop a locomotive and sell it as separate DLC, but to develop new sought after coaches to go with it, and bundle it into a deal... It is not unreasonable like some people are making it out to be.

You've already said it yourself, it's not for you and your not buying it, fair enough. What else is there to add?

 

What's to add is that you are still criticizing consumers for complaining about the price of a product, something which is a fundamental right in a free society. Calling them "moaners " and " self entitled " is offensive. I'll say no more.

 

It is their right to voice their opinion, but it's equally my right to have a counter argument to that opinion, in a free society. So to use your own logic, it is my right to be able to criticise their opinion. It's a two way street...

Well, again I stand by my point, they are moaning about the price and all I've done is observe that fact. It's nothing personal, but as I've said I stand by everything I've written so I'll just leave it at that.

 

I’m not going to get into your flawed reasoning, but I think you should re-read the comments above & you’ll see that not only were any ‘adverse’ comments respectful, but they even still complimented JT.

All you’ve done is make the conversation unnecessarily toxic.

 

Your version of 'toxic' and my version of 'toxic' are two different things. As far as I'm concerned I've just voiced an opinion like everyone else, and those that have taken an exception to what I've said seem to be the ones pushing for an argument... All I've said is that people are moaning about a price, and that I don't understand the moaning, because of what is included in the content being sold and that it comes across as tight and self entitled in some cases when people are moaning about the price. I do not see anything anymore offensive in the statements I have made then any counter opinion/argument being made against my own opinion.

That is all for now...

 

You’re the only person out of all the comments to resort to personal attacks. You could have just added your thoughts on the value of the product but instead you chose to become aggressive towards those who didn’t share your opinion on the price.

 

Not once have I made a single personal attack on any individual. Not once have I been aggressive to any single individual. I've stated my opinions, and stood by them against counter arguments. That's how debates work... So because I don't agree with you over the pricing, I'm the issue? But it's okay for you to take the opposite opinion to mine? Just so I can clarify I am understanding you right.

I do not care if you have an alternative opinion, or want to debate me. That is what the forum is for, but making silly accusations such as calling someone 'toxic' or 'aggressive' for having an alternative opinion isn't great either.

 

It's quite clear to anyone reading this and the other thread who you are talking about. Calling that group of people " tight " " moaners " and " self entitled " is not an opinion, it's a personal attack on those individuals. As one of that group, I resent being called such names and, if I weren't in such a good mood today, I'd hit the report button.

 

I'm just gonna say that seen many users take the same tone as SierraOscar95, but on the opposite side. If someone here commented "The 86 is a sham, and it just another failure of the TSW community to fight back against intrusive pricing" in the same tone so many here would instantly come down on it. I fail to see how the inciting post for this argument was expected to be taken well. I agree with the above, and if you want actual criticism making post aimed toward no one in particular labeling everyone as entitled isn't gonna encourage the best of us to speak.

Heck, I remember in the JT threads a handful of people complaining about how people ain't critical enough about JT's content. I can only imagine how those people are gonna feel seeing this response to the frankly mild criticism toward the pricing so far.

 

Hit the report button, please be my guest, it would be absolutely no skin off of my nose... I'd certainly lose no sleep over it.

Holding my views, is an opinion. You don't have to like it, but it's there, and I stand by it and will continue to do so. By taking the opposite opinion, you risk offending others unfortunately. Every time there is an add on released, there seems to be fairly similar usernames pop up making comments about the price of the content being to expensive and moaning about it. The only people throwing there toys out of the pram so to speak seem to be 2 people, over a someones somehow 'controversial' opinion that some of the moaning about about pricing is a bit over the top and some people are bit stingy. Hardly personal in my opinion, given that I do not know you or others personally to make 'personal comments'.

I've given the reasons I've held my opinion quite politely, and in return the argument I've got back is 'I am toxic', or 'aggressive', and making 'personal attacks', which to me just seems a bit ridiculous.

 

There is definitely an element of JT riding a wave of positive goodwill, which in fairness is deserved after the quality of Blackpool Branches and Preston - Carlisle.

A good example is how JT told us back when Blackpool Branches launched that if any suitable stock was made in the future for the WCML then they would substitute it onto Blackpool as AI, then in their previews for Preston-Carlisle they mentioned that they were looking at doing exactly that with the Class 87. 9 months later and they still 'want' to do it but haven't done any work on it to date.

They pretty much get a free pass because of the quality of their releases, but can you imagine the bloodbath on these forums if that had been either DTG or Rivet setting those expecations while never actually working on delivering them?

Not that I'm hating on JT, I have happily parted with my £20 for the Class 86, but they need to be careful not to squander their goodwill.

 

Looks good, but not £20 good. One for a Christmas sale