Wcml Preston To Crewe Discussion

They'll be using it again next year, but it'll be Crewe to Rugby via the Trent Valley. But at least you may like the Class 310 that would surely have to come with that!

 

Shame there isn't any mention of another DMU or EMU. As I do prefer them over the loco's. Also keeping my fingers crossed that there are Mk2ds as well, since I feel they are missing and I just can't remember mk2fs when I was on them.

 

I enjoyed Blackpool branches and was really excited for WCML Preston-Carlisle. I agree that it can be boring and sometimes felt like it myself. The 86 was a nice adition to the route. Really helped refresh the railscene.

Im glad we getting more wcml and that this time we go south to Crewe. The rails south of Preston was always felt underrepresented. It will kinda feel like the mix of Blackpool branches and WCML Preston-Carlisle. High speed express services, local stoppers and freight jobs. But this route feels more freight oriented. I always felt like the BR freight scene was lacking in tsw, since apart from Tees valley, we didnt have any freight heavy routes. The class 20 and 47/3 is a welcome adition to the route. They re not new but new variants are always welcome.

I feel mixed about the 86/4. This could have been in the 86 pack. Feels a bit scumy in my opinion. Well see i guess. Sleeper Mk3s please!

Also if someone want a bit of a taste of this route there is a really nice video about it. Takes place in Warrington and shows of all kinds of freight and passenger operations in 1987.

 

I think this sounds like a really interesting route. While I enjoy Preston-Carlisle very much, I must admit its length means I often don't have time for a full run, and so end up on a Preston-Blackpool North instead - only that's a touch too short. So Preston-Crewe is a nice in-between length, and with lots of interest.

For a start, although it's 'only' 51 miles (compared to 90 miles Preston-Carlisle) aside from major stations at both ends it has two intermediate stations at which a high proportion of trains call - Warrington Bank Quay and Wigan North Western - as well as a few other stations which had some stops. Running through generally urban areas it has lots of changes in line speed, junctions and conflicting movements (hopefully more opportunities for signal checks than the relatively quiet Preston-Carlisle) to keep the Driver busy.

In addition, although there are no really long climbs to compare with Shap, the gradient profile is lively - plenty of short steep gradients which, particularly with a tap-changer locomotive, will keep the Driver on their toes. Take the approach to Warrington on the Down road, for example. The last two miles consist of a steep climb to Acton Grange Viaduct, suddenly turning to a steep descent from there into the station. It will take skill and precision to get the braking right, particularly with a set of mark 2s. The Northbound departure from Wigan North Western - a 2-mile 1-in-104 climb - will also be interesting on a wet or greasy rail.

Finally, there's the scenery - much more urban than either of JT's routes so far, and if they do it justice - which I suspect they will - it will be very visually interesting and completely different to Preston-Carlisle. Once that's combined with fast running and curvature, I think it will be quite an experience to drive. I'm told that going through the reverse curves at Wigan NW at line speed in the cab of an 86 or 87 was one of the most dramatic front-cab experiences to be had. Never having got the opportunity to do it in real life, I'll be interested to see how it looks and feels in TSW.

All in all, I think this will be a great route, and I'm really looking forward to its release.

 

50/50 on it. I am from and live in Wigan so glad to see that North Western (And I assume Wallgate in some capacity) will be modelled. No real interest in the era mind (i'm 42, bit before my time) so still may not be a day 1 purchase. However I assume Westwood Power Station will have some role to play and maybe the Parkside Colliery at Newton Le Willows (this may be accessed on the Liverpool - Manchester line though?)

It should look good though, JT really do a good looking route!

 

Gotta say this will probably be the first JT product I'll skip launch period on. probably will start consider it when TSW7 is thing funnily enough. Getting sub-variants of existing engines really does nothing for me, especially when I already felt pretty meh about the mild differences between the 86 & 87, and that's a actual "unique" class. And as much of a freight guy as I am thing is there's already a fair bit of freight activity on the BR routes, particular on TVL, where another freight route doesn't feel needed in my book.

Don't get me wrong this isn't a bad announcement, makes sense from a layering and development perspective, and will probably be as well made as what came before. I just really don't see myself getting the value out of it like I have for the other two routes.

 

I am just as excited about this years JT release as last years! This sounds absolutely superb... I'm glad we are getting the 86/4 sub class and the 47/3, as people can really underestimate what different subclasses can bring to the game if you're a real railway anorak like myself. The 'Merry Go Round' element has a lot of potential for future locomotive add ons too.

For me, WCMLOS was fantastic for its mileage, but I'm pretty realistic with my expectations that Crewe - Preston will be equally as good, but with the shorter route will come some fairly decent urban environment scenary and a more busy feel compared to country runs. I'm also sure this part of the WCML will be able to offer some unique services and variety that WCMLOS didn't (both are interesting in their own ways).

I also really appreciate the era, as it ticks all the boxes for my personal railway interests and truly captures a really interesting era of the UK railways. And to be honest you can't go wrong with 86/87s and some old claggy BR diesels...

 

Hope for something Scottish next time, like any Scottish route in 1980s would be amazing

 

Could the pit be bickershaw colliery?

 

Bickershaw branch was at Springs Branch so that would fit. Parkside I reckon is the other one. Trains will feed in from Crewe (Silverdale) and North of Preston no doubt. Also from North Wales.

 

Parkside including the Lowton junction would be pretty cool if it was use at the time?? Would Bickershaw not be a bit far off the beaten track? They'd be modelling half of Platt Bridge!

 

Who knows but pit to power station at the time would make me think Parkside or Bickershaw. Lowton via Newton Le Willows and Earlestown is basically a WCML route. It was wired up so trains could diverted or stoppers head that way.

 

It's set in '86

 

The only thing I'm annoyed at is how for two years running we've got two sections of the WCML in 80s and modern eras.

Other than that, looking forward to the route.

 

What I find most odd, is once JTs new route is released, and All Aboard Studios route, Crewe would have featured in the game in 3 different eras spanning from the 1950s (SoS) all the way up to the late 2010s!

Is that the only station in the game that can claim to do so?

 

Get. On. Made my day

Hopefully they’ll do Crewe as much justice as they did Carlisle and we can free roam around Basford Hall, Gresty Lane, CD, and CE. Really chuffed about them heading down the line from Preston, so many memories….

 

Sounds like a good route to me. As well-made as Preston - Carlisle is, it does get boring quickly for me because it's so long between stops, so a shorter, more urban route (which I assume means more frequent stops) with more of a freight focus (I do love the Carlisle trip workings) is a very good thing in my opinion.

Making a route that includes an 86 so soon after releasing an 86 (yeah, sure, different subclass, but still...) as a standalone loco addon (for a premium price and without any new timetable services!) is wild though. Hopefully it won't be required for this route somehow.

 

I know this route will be great. I'm just disappointed about no new locos or trains. I suppose they're running out of stuff for the era. I suspect the 20s will get redone and we'll get some form of new carriage like a MK1 BSK or MK3 rmb or something.

 

Further to my initial comments… still mixed feelings though if the aforementioned freight flows are well represented that could sweeten the deal. I would hope as a minimum this route brings in the Mark 3 sleeping cars which can then also transplant across to revised and correct formations (Mark 2 day coaches) for overnight trains on the Shap route. And even if not strictly prototypical, this route could have been used to get a Class 56 in the game - turning a “maybe” Day One purchase into a dead cert.

 

Not feeling it with this one, sorry but releasing a very expensive loco DLC (which added zero additional services) followed by including a different variant in your next DLC as a “new loco” is stretching it. I’d probably get over it but then to release a 3rd route which is to include Preston in the mid 1980’s on a section of the WCML which is fairly bland just isn’t getting me excited the way a JT DLC should.

I was really hoping the 86/2 was indicating an East Anglian/Liverpool Street based route to was up next from the guys which could have been far more interesting.

 

The main appeal for me of this route is being able to drive all the way from Crewe too Carlisle.

 

Sleepers are a must, and we need a new BR era diesel. 56 or 25. I was predicting this as being the next DLC as the rolling stock produced would sit at home on it. Those calling for the Eastern region mainline and the like need to realise that there are very few EMUs that would fit in. The 314 could become a 315 and thats it. Nearly everything else needs to be created (TSW massive lead times on DLC creation) and if it doesn't run in real life now the devs struggle with getting sounds etc. Preston to Crewe was nearly always going to be next once they ruled out going north of Carlisle. I seem to recall the JT strategy was to build on existing content not a new area every time.

HAA wagons will be most welcome and again hopefully Sleeper coaches too.

 

Disagree with comments about Preston-Carlisle being a boring route. It's one of the best routes there is.
If I get tired of long runs, I'll go do some DMU services, freight or even one of the so, so, so, many shunting services. I have spent hours just pottering about at Carlisle either releasing coaches in the station or going on one of the many trip workings around the yards surrounding Carlisle.

As for this route, there must be something new for it, especially for the slower commuter services. A 304 would suit the era, as they could be drivable on New Street-Lime Street services between Crewe and Acton Bridge. And of course, they often ended up on services to Preston (my last trip on one there was a relief service). Failing that, let's have a different 1st gen DMU. Non-UK players must think the 101 was the only DMU we ever had back then!

 

Same here. Crewe is ideal for trip workings and light loco movements! Even if we don’t get any in the game (though I’d be gobsmacked if we didn’t, given the work that went into Carlisle) I’ll be building loads of my own or just free-roaming.

Scope for further loco DLCs too… feels like a 25 or a 56 can’t be that far away now…

 

Warrington and Crewe could have a lot of shunting action. In the Warrington area alone there is 3 yards and a loco stabling point. A lot of potential. Monks Hall steelworks may have still been rail connected at the time also.

Crewe is a massive area also so no shortage of shunting. The parcels traffic alone was great in number. This DLC has a lot more potential than simply an AC electric hauled mainline run A to B.

 

Looking forward to the route, but yes the Class 56 should have been incorporated into this. It’s frustrating how this and several other staple BR locos are being ignored. Having said this, if they decide to release it shortly after as a paid dlc, I’m still going to buy it lol.

 

Yes we know how the JT business model sometimes works from their TSC stuff, notably the Met Line where you had to buy the stock separately.

I know from a marketing point might have been awkward, but we are now going to end up with three disjointed JT routes all of which could merge into a really superb mega route. In fact, Preston to Crewe should have been done as an extension to Shap, really. Standalone in the unlikely event you don’t own Shap or locking into it if you do. No doubt their next project will be Crewe to Stafford or Rugby (given AA are doing Birmingham to Crewe) unless they head from Crewe to North Wales, adding yet another jigsaw piece of a route.

 

Are JT based in Preston? Because they seem weirdly obsessed.

Not entirely their fault alone of course, but this constant bombardment of WCML routes is getting old now, especially when there's nothing in East Anglia or the North East, for example

 

I’m so glad I didn’t buy the Class 86 dlc because I was planning to wait for a sale as it was so similar to the 87. Now I get it for free lol!

 

Just remembered Tees Valley exists, but still.

 

It’s strange because their TSC portfolio is quite widely spread, albeit they have done a similar exercise with their MML and West Of England stuff. I can only assume their TSW route building expertise is firmly rooted in the North West. However that said, they could have taken a break from the WCML and taken us out to Barrow and Whitehaven or across from Carlisle to Newcastle.

 

86/4 will probably have different traffic, they had 36 way multiple working for other 86/4s and 87s. Can see 86/2s and coaches being a layer potentially.

 

They have definitely been keeping the AC stuff as the core for a while.

 

Probably a main reason why we aren’t getting a new train with this route is probably because they couldn’t get access to a locomotive in time for their release since they been working on other stuff and they also could have not get permission yet

also maybe they are making this route and adding the update to their previous routes at around about the same time making it harder to work on something completely new

 

Don't forget they are also working on the Pacer for Cardiff City as well

 

Hence why I said they are working on other stuff

 

They have also just finished an upgrade on the TSC MML and all its extentions.
My only fear for the WCMLCP is the lack of an emu for it, I'm sure others will agree it will look very bland at crewe with just 101s and 142s

 

A class 304 would be great but the only way to drive it (on regular services) would be to run the Liverpool stopper as far as Acton Bridge, which wouldn’t be very satisfying - a very short journey, and ending in the middle of nowhere as you can’t take it on to Liverpool. Apart from that it would just be AI eye-candy at one end of the route. I can’t see them building a whole new unit just for that.

I think given the amount of TSW stock there is for this era, it should be possible to make the whole route feel suitably busy, without the need for any new locos/units.

From a passenger perspective, I’m not sure what JT could have added in terms of trains. A class 81 or 85 would be great, but I suspect sales of the 86 were reduced by the fact that to the non-enthusiast it felt a lot like the 87, and the 81/85 would probably suffer further diminishing-returns for the same reason.

I don’t drive much freight in TSW as they don’t provide proper schedules, so it all feels a bit aimless, but even I have to admit that’s where the opportunities for new locos on this route lie - a 25 or a 56, for example, would generate a lot of interest.

 

Hope it's a 56. A screaming Valenta... with plenty of class too... imagine that!!!

No doubt a few livery variations will be included too.

 

Crewe is my “home” station so this has filled me with happiness and will be a day 1 purchase, as was WCMLoS. I do understand people’s frustration that JT are sticking to one area though. I’m sure once they’ve got as much return as possible on their investment in creating assets (a la Preston station) they will expand to new areas.

Slightly OT but with the announcement of AA’s route being Crewe-Birmingham possibly precluding JT heading south from Crewe, imagine a TSW route where you could set the date before you drive, and then the track layout, line side clutter, stations, signalling and rolling stock etc would be set appropriate to that era. Complete fantasy now, but one day maybe something like that will be reality.

 

Tees Valley desperately needs a remaster.

 

Ok so I've had time to think after my initial comment yesterday (it was the only way to get through my time in the dentist's chair).

I am still delighted at the route announcement, of course I am biased given I live adjacent to the WCML near Wigan and have my own "spot" carved out at Bamfurlong where I can go and watch/film trains, the route's also set in "my" era so it's win-win.

While I did say yesterday about being disappointed that the 86/4 should have been included in the Class 86 DLC and that it was a bit of a cop-out, I still stand by that however do need to point out that no doubt JT will be putting in a fair few new wagon types for us, both for the 86/4 and for the coal traffic in a similar way to how the 86/2 DLC included the MkII Coffins and Vern's RMB. I would of course have preferred it had they gave us a "Roarer" which were very common on freight and low priority "Inter-City" services at the time but hopefully plenty of 86s with the odd 87 chucked in should suffice.

Hopefully the Class 20 is being rejigged as JT do great work and bringing the Chopper up to TSW6 standards would be excellent, I am sure the 47/3 will be excellent too of course. I had said yesterday about it not really being common on MGRs of the time, forgetting that my memories of MGRs in Wigan and Wazza were 20s & 56s because the 47s had moved on by then. I do remember one having a flashing beacon on it's cab roof, I wonder if we will get that one included?

I am positive that the freight activity will be the big draw on this route, even if JT do not do the branch to Bickershaw Colliery the player could still take over at Springs Branch and work it to FFPS via Warrington and it's reversals. Golborne Colliery was still open in 1986 so that could add some extra coal traffic. Depending on if they add the branches at Golborne there is the potential for the chemical traffic from Ashton as well as stone from Kelbits.

I do really think that they should include the Wigan-Liverpool and Liverpool-Crewe lines, the former would be a great opportunity to use the existing 142 and the revamped 101, the latter would easily see more Intercity action. If they did go ahead and include an 310 that would fit nicely on the Crewe - Liverpool run as well as the odd trip to Preston. Even if they didn't make a 310, both of those lines would be a very good use for the existing stock, as for example the 142 would be pretty much useless except as AI traffic coming in/out of Wallgate and maybe the odd run from Wigan to Preston as part of a Liverpool - Blackpool service.

Adding in the Liverpool to Crewe line also adds a plethora of freight opportunities from Halewood and Garston, maybe car carriers For Leyland don't forget HGV bodyshells on wagons too

To answer someone's question about JT being based in Preston, no I don't think JT are however I believe a number of the devs who are working on the projects do live between Preston and Blackpool (with JT being the publisher for their work). I am remembering this from one of the Blackpool Branches streams on Trainsim TV where Tom was going through things and highlighting certain parts that came from memories etc...

All round, I am really looking forward to this - day 1 for certain, I just hope that they release in Nov/Dec and don't push it back too far (since we've been told that AA Crewe to Birmingham is the first DLC to release).

 

As does NTP, the enhancement pack that someone made is brilliant but it just needs more traffic more than anything else. I was on NTP last night and did a run from Manchester to Leeds and back, I enjoyed it more than any of my TSW experiences this past month or so. I don't know what it is, the colours look more realistic and less "cartoony/bright" and the grime and grunge makes it feel like the 80s (which is where I want to be). Something odd had happened too, it was now layering in other things such as the 31, 37 and 142 which was great to see, it was just a shame that it is still so quiet as it's missing so much freight (mostly coal, hopefully when the JT PWC route drops with HAA's we can get some on NTP).

 

Will this have pax operations. Imagine we will also see a pacer, 101, 08 etc

 

Yes, there are still plenty of stations Crewe - Winsford - Hartford - Acton Bridge - Warrington BQ - Wigan - Leyland - Preston, the question is what will operate and what services?

 

I'm going to be brutally honest because as much as I love how much detail JT put into their routes...I am a little disappointed with the route choice and no new rolling stock. This is the third time in a row they've featured Preston and I wish they'd push the boat out a little more because it's starting to feel a little repetitive imo.

Also not a fan how this route has an 86/4 when I just paid £20 for an 86/2. This route also comes with more 47's instead of something more interesting.

Route length isn't an issue but the section isn't all that interesting to me. On a positive note I am interested to see what they do with the Class 20 and MGR trains.

I won't write off this route until I see more but those are just my thoughts right now.

 

You do realise this is the very first announcement of the route?, like they are probably doing more freight rolling stock that hasn’t been mentioned and we sure as hell need it and who knows what else they will bring out

 

How would you feel about some cross-border action like Edinburgh to Newcastle set in about 1980 when the Deltics were still a common sight alongside the brand new HSTs? I'm not from the area but have traveled that route a lot since the 80s and I'd love it. A really nice length with some beautiful scenery.

 

Hope we can see screens soon

 

I loved the screens of when the wcmlos route was teased etc.