Wcml Preston To Crewe Discussion

Come on JT gang give us the map before we lose our minds!

 

The Miley Tunnel could have potential for a spooky easter egg in it lol.

 

Does this mean we can start referring to the JT "Preston Trilogy"?

 

i wonder is the ribble dock branch included with the run out at preston???

 

Does this mean we're getting a prequel trilogy at some point?

 

Thought this was the prequel trilogy, and we were going to potentially get a pre-prequel trilogy........

 

Yes but really enhanced route hopping.

Rather than getting out the cab & going to the portal, a pop up at the end of service to say, do you want to continue this journey by hopping to blah. Then you are transported to the relevant dlc still in the cab with the set up you had.

 

Plus any delay to your train and others you might encounter on the continuing journey carried over.

Even when the periods don't match, as will be the case with Birmingham to Crewe then Crewe to Preston, offer a list of trains around your arrival time to drop into and take over.

 

Yes this is a great idea, especially now that we are getting routes with logical continuations. Of course this would require some assurance of continuity between timetables, and also probably some fixes to save game.

 

I would expect so, it's not particularly long so shouldn't be heavy on scenery demands but has a challenging gradient. I think the big issue with it would be what actual services could be included. I can't recall the timetable from 1986 but in recent history the tanks have come off the WCML at Farrington Curve Jn then ran via Copy Pit, though when there was an engineering blockade they did run them via Wigan and Chat Moss. Perhaps they could include the tanks in a "diversion via Wigan" scenario.

There is a similar thing with Ashton-in-Makerfield, the oil terminal closed in the early 1980s though the track was there a lot longer (some of it still in use as a headshunt) but it included the steepest gradient on the network (albeit for a very short section to duck under a roadbridge). Could JT do a little "fudging" and include it, particularly as it included interesting workings such as propelling all the way back to Springs Branch? On the subject of "fudging" do we think they will put the North Wales Coast services that run through Warrington in the hands of 40s even though they finished two years prior? - since they have them on Preston-Carlisle I'd think so too

 

Sounds like what I suggested which was a version of "Journey Mode" for longer routes. You just hit "next" and it loads the next run.

 

the in cab route hop is something which i've been thinking about for a while. like i've said before its all down to the timetables matching, if they use the same timetable as in WCMLos then in theory it could work.

the big issue that i can see would be getting the same locos (for services that use different locos) and even loco numbers to be the same when you route hop, both with AI and player services.
timing shouldn't be too much of an issue, as the ai should be in its correct location however when you hop however, this leads on to my next though about non stop service, the ai would have to be set to its start speed that it should be doing not 0mph as they start at now when you jump in.
non stop services, not so much of an issue with the passenger services but the freight might be, as it wouldn't all be stopped at preston. the only way i could see them getting though this is by keeping an extra mile or 2 north of preston and as your on approach north of the station you get a pop up whilst on the move then hop over starting at the same speed you were doing before.

my thought for that come from WCMLS where lots of expresses dont stop at MK, thinking if you did do a MK to brum run and had an in cab route hop.

 

There are very few "non stop" services though. It'd be a very limited application for a lot of work with the core, the routes, the locos, etc.
Whereas we already have Journey mode and it'd be simply a matter of bundling existing timetable segments together, while stops at stations are normal in real life.

It just seems a very "niche" thing involving a lot of work across even companies in many cases (since routes are made by different developers) for very little actual gain in game. While Journey mode is just something very easy and 90% the same thing.
Chasing that last 10% in life is often not worth it.

 

North wales coast would be spicy!

 

i agree fully that a journey mode could cover it, however the route hop could also cover it to the same extent. yes i agree it would take some work as you state in work arounds with the core to upgrade it to the point i stated however i do believe that its not had a chance to shine yet and its the way forward. where i do disagree is saying its a niche thing.

right now in its basic form the route hop is a niche thing, almost a gimmick to allow you to jump between routes that don't necessarily link with each other so id say that 10% of its usefulness is being used and 90% has yet to be tapped because the opportunity has not arisen for it until now.

JT are the first to make a network style route in TSW and i think will push the boundary's with WCMLpc in that (and ill be my bottom pound on it) they will use the same timetable from WCMLos. i think the route hop at preston will come into its own even as it is now. my hope is that they could do route hop points at the platform ends on both WCMLos and WCMLpc so you don't have to run from the current point now and just jump out run 2 meters hop and back in. as ive already put in this thread you can do shunts move on WCMLos for the 47 on the london blackpool service and route hop and finish it to blackpool and it worked with out fault even though both routes are on a weekend (BPO) and weekday (WCMLos) because they both aligned at the right time because the service was at the same time. regardless of if its a different loco/livery, i think people will start to realise its a good feature to have and get a lot of enjoyment out of it because there will be a lot more once WCMLpc. comes out, hence my reason to develop it further

slightly off topic but it is something i can see potential in. MAC i was an (understandable) let down as it didn't go to Crewe especially when crewe birmingham is coming out. if both routes had a uniformed timetable that matched (they could still have their own timetable) you could do a similar thing to JT if DTG ATS and AB all worked together as one rather than individual.

essentially to me it builds a bridge (not a perfect one) of the big problem of why only short routes in TSW the answer development time (understandable) and keeping the console players who cannot potentially run a 100-200 mile route in one hit. reloading in and out of routes would reset every time you route hop over and clear the route data. essentially this is why i back route hopping, might be the best way to keep everyone happy

 

So what I'm getting from all of that is you're fine with route hopping as a good compromise.

 

By the way. Is it really impossible to merge all three routes into one big map? Is there some kind of sim limitation? I wouldn’t mind paying three times more if needed.

 

It might be possible, but what's the point?

 

If it was within the realms of possibility I don't think it's a bad idea... I wouldn't mind a full Carlisle to Crewe run, saves having to route hop if you wanted the run a particular service all the way.

 

It’d be my own mini-world — riding trains back and forth, watching the traffic, fiddling with timetables… and no time left for work. So better not!

 

Not helpful to this thread but I'm drunk so why not since you highlighted St Johns Ambulance - used them for the first time ever in my life this week at the Weardale Show. My daughter had fallen off a chair, I wasn't particularly inclined to do anything but I was with my mum who thought we should get a cold compress and so we took her to the ambulance and... well they had a cold compress! So there we go. I did find it lovely it was a married couple that were doing it (like one the paramedic and one the ambulance driver) - they're voluntarily spending time with each other so they must be some of the most well adjusted medics ever...

Now I just need to figure out how to join so I can drive an ambulance and go nee nor nee nor nee nor

 

yeah in a word, because what other alternative is there, when your trying to keep everyone happy. from console users to pc. yeah sure id love a mega route from crewe to blackpool and carlisle, its not going to happen and i do think that route hopping if developed more could be the answer

 

If a loco DLC is announced, I really hope it'll be the APT-P but I'll take a 56..

When this route & Birmingham - Crewe both release, Crewe will be the first station we'll have set in multiple eras - 1958, 1986 & 2019

 

I think it would run up against hardware limitations- that is a crapload of traffic, signals and switches for the game to keep track of. Computer load means far more than just generating the 3D picture you see in your 2160-pixel window. It's the reason Gen 8 and even some Gen 9 consoles don't get full releases. I imaging a "Preston Supernetwork" would crush all but the most massively OP PCs.

 

I honestly don't think a complex route that is nearly 200 miles long is possible in the current game engine, just think about the timetable mode and how after you've been "in world" for a couple of hours it gradually begins to LOVE the bed. The way the timetable is designed and runs is a bit of a house of cards, it relies on things being in position at the right time and doesn't allow any deviation - so you can end up with your shunt release loco arriving into the platform before you do etc...

Quite a few of us have had massive queues of trains held up by one which seemingly has forgotten what to do and is blocking everything, these tend to occur after the timetable has had over an hour to run - with you in there in the mix, we know the TT's are tested but only by a machine that is running everything perfectly to time and not a user who will not drive bang on the speed limit but one or two mph below it, or get distracted at a station stop and miss the guards' tip, maybe even forget to take the straight air off in one cab having switched over to another during a shunt move, little things that chisel away at a finely crafted TT.

 

I forgot to add, as for a new loco DLC (not counting the upcoming 142 obviously) my money is leaning more toward a 25 though a 56 is possible. My reasoning being that if JT decide to do the North Wales Coast next then the Rat is a sound choice, not to mention that we still had dozens of them around Wigan back then so would fit nicely onto the WCMLpc route.

 

Yeah that's basically what DTG reps have said.

 

blimey i did do a bit of posting last night. apology's if it seemed it was all aimed at you. my initial response was but most was just my views in general on tsw aimed for everyone to read. we all want the same thing, the best balanced experience out of TSW.

back on track and those showing love for a class 25 (myself included) they were all gone by the end of 86 so it would be unlikely. be better saved for NTP/PFR upgrades. a 56 would be my shout.

on the timetables cannot speak for other routes but i have been at carlisle in the opening mins of a run and had to wait 20mins because it pathed the 08 from kingmoor through to upperby stopping basically everything. that said i did do the mammoth 8 hour service block of runs between carnforth barrow and lancaster, using the save (approx 4x2 hour sessions) and despite being over half n hour late the timetable held up 8 hours in with no issues.

 

Timetables can be a bit of a dark art, especially with ones where lots of things interact with each other (coupling, decoupling and all that) meaning delays on some trains can change everything.

 

JT Benedict will every new timetable after tsw 6 release have to include signal delays?

Such as for example, a new BPO timetable featuring all recently released/upcoming stock?

 

Haha, yeah. I think I'd be on them for too long as well. At least the route hops remind me to have a quick stretch XD

 

will we have WAFC 4EVA , UP THE Wolves and Forever Alexandra on the bridges at wigan warrington and crewe those with a keen eye wil know
just done a 2 hour freight run from preston to carlisle epic run but f-ed it at carlisle over running the signal. and no i didnt put any save points in

 

I know that pain, way too well

 

May have "Up the Wire" Graffiti as Warrington only became the "Wolves" in 96!!

I'd love some Latics graffiti though. Up The Tics!

 

Could do some st Helens stuff.....

 

Well there's Carlisle as a central hub.
Carlisle-Glasgow would work. (linking to two existing routes)
Carlisle to Edinburgh (linking to an existing route)
Settle-Carlisle in TSC
Carlisle to Newcastle (opening up the East Coast at a key point)

That finishes the whole WCML and opens up the ECML.
From there you have nice "bite size" segments from Newcastle up to Edinburgh,
Newcastle past Tees Valley to York (connection to existing route at Darlington?)
York to Doncaster, linking to an existing route.

Makes sense to me, but what do I know?

 

This small change would make the game so much better. Or even a fast forward time function when in free roam. I can sometimes find myself waiting ages for a service to arrive that I want to drive

 

fast forward would be good if you stay in game like me, but as things are now for me is good. if i stay in game and have 20mins to kill ill set the train up and leave the game running and set a timer on my phone. then ether A minimise it and go ont the internet or B go and do a quick job round the house, cook a quick meal have a shower etc. it brakes up the the c**p every weekend stuff with a little enjoyment

 

Lets hope so!

 

I have thought this would be a good idea before. I like to to just spawn in on foot at a random time and then see what service to pick up.... but sometimes get a bad window when there isn't something for a while or just missed a service. Or when you complete something and want to take a a service back the other way and you find there is a lot of time to kill. But a minor inconvenience at this stage

 

This is the part that has got me the most excited. Being able to run a service from Crewe to Carlisle. Even though the spawned in train after the route hop will be slightly different it is still a good starting point to build up the feature going forward.

I can't wait for the timetable to be announced. As far as I know all the express passenger services stopped at Preston so anything we run from Crewe we should be able to continue on WCMLoS. But I don't think all the Glasgow expresses stopped at Crewe (royal Scot for example ran non-stop from Euston to Preston) so I guess those services will just be replicated as AI only.

 

Most trains called at Crewe but for those that didn’t all they need to do is adjust the timetable to ensure they do. A bit of artistic licence would not go amiss in this situation.

 

Nah, I want to see some AI go straight through Crewe, don't want all IC services stopping, be nice to watch whilst waiting at Platform 5/6

 

Stuff like the Royal Scot could start from the slow lines just south of Crewe, as though it had been signal checked

 

didn't even know the royal scot still ran in the 80s, or at what time it turns up at preston according to the WTT, IRL or JTs WCMLos. although a small amount of research (wiki) tells me its first stop was preston.

my thoughts on the route hop still hold, however using JTs stuff as an example was the wrong example. i was thinking more if an extension was done to ECML and WCMLS where there are a number of services that dont stop at MK, doncaster peterborough how could you work round them in a route hop.

 

Royal Scot ran till 2003 iirc. Named trains were removed around then when Pendolinos were in more or less full service.

 

Think some of the Liverpools might have run through non stop, in which case they are only going to be AI from Basford Hall to Weaver Jn and vv.

 

Unless JT build the Liverpool spur of course :p

Little quip aside I expect if they don't add Liverpool to the mix then they will just end up putting them in as AI, it would be a shame to miss out driving them but at least they would add to the immersion. I was on a shunting run at Preston yesterday and was smiling to myself as there was so much going on, I was shunting a 47 round ready to take over a freight and there was an 86 in the process of running round a rake of coffins, an 87 rolling by on freight and some units doing their thing, it really felt alive - something that after spending several hundred Pounds on TSC I never felt once.

 

Hopefully they add a 37 for add-on for the regional services in RR livery.

 

Regional Railways didnt exist until 1991. 37s worked on Liverpool to Cardiff trains after 1988 when the 155 units had their door issues.