Was The Riviera Line Made In The Correct Time Period?

As mentioned by a previous forum member:

Apparently a lot of TSW players wanted an older era set route which featured BR stock.

I made this post to answer a very simple question. Have DTG made the right choice with the Riviera line set in the modern era?

 

It is a completely subjective matter...

Do I personally think it was made in the wrong era? No, not at all. I'm all for promoting BR era content, but I feel the majority of players prefer the era that has been chosen because of the variety it offers. That means if this was set in a different era we wouldn't have the Class 220 alone. You are never going to please everyone, but a single person's opinion is not representative of the vast majority of players. Class 802s, 220s, 150s, HSTs, 166s all in one package (if you own the relevant layers). DTG got it right with this one... The timetable is probably far more busy in the modern era then it would of been 30 or 40 years in the past.

I personally wouldn't want the era to be in the past on this one, it offers the sort of thing I'm after with a modern route.

 

I voted yes.

I have no connection to either the area or era, so it doesn't really matter much to me, personally.

Mostly though i just think JT has the BR Blue era covered at this point, so it's unlikely DTG would want to duplicate efforts- and, this is purely speculation btw, but i just don't sense much passion from the DTG team regarding older eras- SoS was clearly dictated from above and since the Focus acquisition they've only done modern-ish content iirc. That's not a complaint, btw- i think it's good for the players in the end when the devs are working on things that really excite them!

 

Personally prefer modern, but having holidayed in Dawlish in the 90s I wouldn’t have been against it set in Regional Railways/Intercity times.

Modern obviously makes sense with the return of the GWR license though

 

All valid points guys. I myself am happy with the set time period, it makes no difference to me on how I’m going to enjoy the route.
It’s nice to get other people’s opinion on the subject matter though, as I’m sure some people are disappointed. Then a read a comment from someone saying 90% of players would've preferred an earlier time period. Unless there was another poll made prior to that statistic then there’s no evidence to his claim. That’s why I thought, why not the question. The players make up these forums and they’re the ones who will give a truthful answer.

 

I voted yes. Generally speaking, I would mostly prefer to have a modern version of a route with the chance of a 'Legends' loco pack of classic locos that would have run on that route in the past.

 

Perhaps further down the line DTG could look at releasing a dlc with the route set during the 80’s/90’s period?. Upgrade the current locos, give us some more liveries (blue class 33, 37 etc). And for the love of god, a Valenta HST!.

Having said all this, I absolutely cannot wait for this release. I have so many good memories of holidays in this region, it’s nostalgia overload!.

 

I voted No, cause nothing comes close to "Riviera Line in the 50s" in TSC. Nothing wrong with a modern Route but I prefer some good old GWR Steam over basically nearly everything. I would love to see this again in TSW.
This game is in desperate need of something like a Castle or Hall Class, if not on its own route, then atleast for Railtours and the WSR.

 

Star in shambles.

 

How can there be a correct time period?

They have made it in the best time period for them.

I would have preferred it set in the 70's or 80's or even better the 50's with a Castle, Hall, Prairies and a Pannier.

 

Where did that person get the 90% from?

I could make a statistic up, doesn't make it correct.

Lies, damned lies and statistics...

 

I think this picture shows Torquay passengers queuing up to vote in this poll in the 50's



IMHO the Riviera line is fine in any time period as it is the scenery that is the star. (Assuming it is done right).

However, just imagine the route being set on a Summer Saturday in the late 60's / early 70's with trains from all parts of the country queuing up at every signal post, all the full carriage sidings, freight services and Newton Abbot depot in play. Now that would've been something else

 

Or in the 50's when anything which could turn a wheel was put into service often with carriages to match.

 

Am I the only person who has no real preference when it comes to eras?

Sure modern stuff is nice because it feels relatable in a way (even if I've never been to the Devon or rode a GWR 802 or 150. I have used other companies 802s and 150s mind).

But equally older stuff from before I was born is interesting because it allows me to enjoy trains I never really got the chance to experience.

But I think the "problem" is more along the lines of how DTG needs to go to where the buyers are; and I expect that the average person browsing the store would be more interested in the modern stuff because of the aforementioned relatability.

 

69% of statistics on the internet are made up

 

Overall, steam era would’ve been the best choice with the original GWR. However, considering the state of steam physics I don’t see that happening g unfortunately.

Next best option would’ve been BR Western Region, but JT are the only ones I trust to do that era justice and they’ve got enough on their hands with their WCML based content right now.

Modern is okay and better than nothing, but I certainly think it’s the least interesting option of the bunch when it comes to era choice.

You say that but the Peak Forest preview streams way back, Matt said the team were more engaged than ever when making the route. They were excited to work on the steam era and honestly, it does show in the route building for PF. It’s the physics side that let it all down.

I do think something changed after the Focus takeover though, I think there are more business heads at the top now and less enthusiasts, which realistically, you need to survive as a company. They see modern content sells more and pass the message down the chain to do more of that.

It just makes the game a bit less interesting from an enthusiast point of view.

Personally, I like modern era content but I like what came before a lot more, especially the steam era. It’s always going to be a subjective thing.

What we need is a third party similar to JT that focuses on British steam. Honestly, I think if we had that then a lot of the “ugh, more modern content” comments would lessen. Problem there is, DTG need to make it appealing to develop steam locomotives for TSW and those physics? They ain’t it.

 

Mind you a picture like this smells and sounds better than the current day (but, sadly, you'd never know it now).



Still, as I said before, it is an iconic route in any time period. DTG were always only going to make it present day which is fine. It is just a shame that we aren't able, via the editor, to alter the time period and, maybe, make things a bit more interesting.

 

This is what I feel. The look and feel of the railway has changed so much, especially going back to steam days.

I was young in the 80's and the JT routes have rekindled that era for me. I wish I had a time machine and go back to a sleepy WR branchline in the 1950's. Sadly TSW has not offered that experience and seems won't.

I do feel TSW is too skewed to modern routes and I hope there is a slight rethinking of this stance.

However it's hard to blame DTG if that is where the money is.

I will contest that I don't feel TSW is a "complete" train simulator if it leaves out the most formative era of the railway and one which seems to enthuse people of all ages when it comes to the preservation scene.

 

No. I like content of all eras and kind, but there's plenty of modern content. Would love a bit historic content for variation. Not limited to the UK, it's a thing that applies to all countries.

 

There was a huge build up to SOS with the community getting involved and I recall discussions over possible DLC with PFR and as you say much enthusiasm.

It's sad but inevitable that the bean counters have different priorities.

 

I don’t like this idea, it means all routes are modern with the historical element being a “second thought” so to speak. All historical content should have its own unique version of a route that fits the time period that the timetable and stock are based on.

Before details were revealed, I expected the original Diesel Legends pack to be a 1970’s remake of GWE and was disappointed to see it was just a timetable. They could’ve just done a railtour pack with a BR Blue 52 really and we’d be the same off.

 

I wasn't even born in the 80s so the JT routes (plus NTP and TVL) offer me a way to experience how trains and rail were back then

 

I’m a 90’s kid, I should probably be into modern more than anything else but I have a Dad who has a model layout based on end of steam and who also took me on many childhood visits to many heritage railways.

I have to really, really go out of my way to see a Pendolino or Azuma.

 

I voted yes, I love the Class 80x and the 150, it’s already one of my favourite routes from TSC and in real life. Modern era is perfect and it’s even changed from 10 years ago!

Now if you’d have asked me for example about WCML over Shap, BR blue/Intercity era is completely correct and much more of a challenge.

Like alluded to above, it’s all subjective. Obviously if people aren’t happy, they don’t have to play it.

But DTG have got the era spot on, and if it was anything other than modern, I’d have certainly been on the fence about TSW6. Modern is popular like it or not and it obviously sells, and I’m sure many people feel the same.

 

To recreate any period up till 1985 on this route would mean most of the signals being replaced by semaphores.

 

Yeah, it would take a lot of work.

I was responding to the person who sounded like he was asking all routes to be modern, then doing Diesel Legends style packs instead of historical routes.

I still think there’s room for a possible historical version of Riviera to exist in TSW alongside the upcoming modern one. Just as it was in TSC.

 

Agreed, even a “vintage trains” tour pack with clun castle for this route would be enough to tide me over for a few more months/years, steam has to return at some point

 

For me personally?
Wrong because I don't care for the modern era stuff.
But that seems to be the majority of the TSW playerbase, so it's right for TSW.

 

Yes please

 

I would have been happy with either, though I appreciate why folks are more attached to certain eras.

 

I live near the ECML so see a lot of Azuma's

 

You have to differentiate 90% on this forum and 90% on the TSW community

First, I would like to know how the person in question found these 90% because the community is large, it is not just the forum.

And finally, doing a sondage in this forum is not useful because you will only have the opinion of the forum which, once again, is not the entire community.

 

Well on bright side maybe a route with Skegness in may happen as that’s still all old signalling beyond Grantham to skeggy

 

There's not always a single right or wrong time period - I would have preferred the sectorisation era, but that's my personal taste, and the current day is still fine, the route is still gonna be busy and varied. There are routes where setting them now would be much duller than in the past - and vice-versa - but this doesn't feel like one of them.

In general I'd like to see a wider spread of eras though.

 

Hmm not sure... personally no, but I can certainly see why DTG would set it in the present day, and the voyager is sure to be a popular choice given how many other routes it could layer in, so also yes?

Tis' a shame though that we're unlikely to see it in a BR blue guise or even better (but even less likely) set in the steam era.

I think I'll abstain from voting for this one.

 

theorganist There’s no right or wrong choice here, people’s preferences will always differ from your own. 90% I thought was too high of a statistic, that’s why I made this poll. Unless there is actual evidence to back up the original person’s statement then I will put my hands up. There could be a 3 year old post knocking about on the forums, who knows

 

Fair point, we can only go by what they said, but i''m sure all of us have said what the bosses want to hear on occasion- it's known that the former CEO was heavily involved in getting SoS made. The fact that Steam development stopped almost immediately after his departure could just be a coincidence but i'm sceptical tbh. If it was truly the devs' passion, they'd have pushed to fix SimuGraph, right? Or developed a bespoke steam simulation to bolt onto it?

 

I don’t know how DTG get their statistics, but could TSW player base be on the younger side, hence why we get more modern routes in general?

I personally like seeing a mix of the two (old & new era’s) as JT’s routes really made me fall in love with the 101. Manually changing gears on a train, you don’t get that kind of experience with modern traction.

 

Or that it just didn't sell well so they changed their mind.
Maybe like Thomas... or US freight.
They just make what they think sells.

 

Maybe JT may do an BR era rivera line? They have been brilliant with their west coast mainline routes.

 

About 2/3 of console users are under 34 according to industry studies. That means they don't even really remember before the 2000s.
Also increasingly urban, so city based routes probably sell well if we go by the "people like to play what they're familiar with."
Another interesting bit I picked up was the fastest rising game system was "mobile/smartphone."
Far outstrips console or PC.
I wonder what they consider a Nintendo "Switch" to be....

This has to be balanced of course by who HAS the money (older people in general), but that's limited because you only really buy a DLC once.

I really would like to see more sales figures for individual DLC because that would give a better idea of what the "players" want instead of just what the "forum" suggests.

 

They won't redo a line that is brand new.
What is this fetish people have for wanting JT to do every route in the UK?
I get that they're good... but they are focusing on what they enjoy and sells.
I'd rather they complete the WCML and then work on the crossover and ECML.
That's where their bread and butter is... not remaking a route that isn't even released yet.....that's redundant.

 

I voted "No". I mean there are so many different eras they could have picked going back to steam and through to the HST and Sprinter era which preceded what we are getting.

It is subjective but in this particular instance they should have gone for something historical, certainly pre late 80's when Exeter Panel Box came on line and the track at locations like St Davids and Newton Abbot was severely rationalised. Running along the sea wall and over the Devon Banks under lower quadrant signals, with a 45, 47, 50, or 42/43, 52 diesel hydraulic would have been something really special.

Part of this hobby should be taking the opportunity to show a bit of history, the modern railway is out there for us to look at and ride on now if we wish. Obviously the decision was influenced partly by renewal of the GWR licence plus acquisition of one for Cross Country and maybe they decided this was the only real location they could incorporate both franchises. It's also easier to go out and look at what's there on the ground now and in contemporary cab rides, than poring over old maps and trying to get imagery to see what the area looked like. I mean it is scary to think that 1971, when we had our first holiday in Dawlish, is over 50 years ago.

Anyhow I'll enjoy the route regardless but as previously stated no-one is going to make or re-make it in an earlier era and duplicate what's already there. The same worry applies if DTG ever decide to do one of the scenic Scottish routes. They will do it with modern day Sprinters and we will be denied a Class 26, 27 or even 37 haulage experience.

 

I voted "Yes" as I'm not from the area and a "Diesel Legends" version based in the 70s (introducing the Class 50, with original HSTs, 52s and 45s on the Cross Country services maybe) wouldn't look out of place for me.

 

One good point of getting older is you can just take your glasses off, squint a bit and pretend it's the "old days." =-)
Looking forward to running the Scotsman or the 52 down the Riviera even if it's just a "rail tour" or if I have to do it in Free Mode

 

Yeah, I was thinking of grappling with a free roam 52 down to Plymouth. The real version struggled with the gradients so I'll have fun totally messing the Timetabled services-up.

 

You made this thread like I’m the only one who over exaggerates to get a point across but yet quite a few others do it.

also the whole the younger generation only wants stuff they have seen seems pretty dumb for me because first of history is quite a popular subject in quite a few schools, and second I’m literally only 19 which going off your logic I should be doing the complete opposite of what I’m doing.

the main reason why I want more 1980s or older is because I don’t want history forgotten and second it’s just nice getting to live the eras that’s my grandfather was alive in, so I’m not going to stop saying my opinion

 

Nobody has a problem with you expressing your opinion, I'm sure many here would like to see more 80s content for the UK including myself.

But to state that dtg ignored 90% of the player base with riviera lines era was a poor way to make that argument.

I see you arguing against people's modern suggestions in the suggestion thread, maybe make an 80s route suggestion instead of doing that? You'll be more likely to get what you want that way.

The hyperbole has only lead to the creation of a thread that largely supports modern era content, quite the opposite effect than you were going for.

 

I know man, the only reason I used you as an example is that you seem to be very vocal on wanting older/heritage railways (nothing wrong with that). I see you post a lot saying I wish X route was set in an earlier time period on suggestion posts too.
I did say in an earlier post to you…
I know it’s frustrating as everyone on the forums is of a different age group, and we all relate to different time periods on the railway better than others.
You said 90% of all TSW players would’ve preferred the Riviera set in earlier time period.
Let’s put that to the test I’d like to know too.
So don’t look at it like i’m gaslighting you or something silly like that. I’ve simply taken what you said an expanded upon it so we can debate further.

 

Was just pointing out the fact that I’m literally not the only person that over exaggerates to make a point, wink wink certain modern fans, I’m not trying gaslight