Less Console Game, More Simulator Please!

Being someone who has been a simulation user for many years now, have dovetail lost the ability to create immersive driving simulation? What has happened to a focus on the concept of train operation and correct physics?

Yes, we now have outstanding visuals, but this feels more like a console game for younger audiences, converted to work on PC. It’s far from a simulation of driving a train.

My point is, if you want to make a console game for younger gamers to just enjoy playing around, looking for collectibles; Pokémon already exists! What place does this have in a driver simulation please?

I know if I had to explain to my driver team manager that my train was late because I was too busy collecting the latest timetable off the wall, I’d be looking for a new job!

Come on dovetail, either create a simulator or consider selling it off to a company that can make it what it’s supposed to be.

 

You must be fun at parties

 

I'm an older player and I prefer playing on console, I prefer the simulation aspect of it, likewise I also enjoy playing flight simulator, farming simulator etc on console despite owning a pc which could run them.

Sorry, what was your point again? You haven't made it clear.

 

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion about it, however I feel that personally the simulation, or immersion aspect is dramatically missing. This from the general features, sound and physics to name a few.

Being aimed at a console market for sales figures, and converting it to PC is without doubt holding back the full potential of the game engines ability.

There are many colleagues including myself, that provide feedback to companies such as dovetail, and without us doing so, the community would never get to experience what they have been.

 

Your original post though was about collectibles. These have been around for years on both PC and console so i fail to see how consoles are holding everything back?

Also, TSW and all the content is developed on PC and ported to console.

 

Groan.

Tired of this elitist stuff.

First of all, it’s a game. Doesn’t matter what platform you’re on. Unless you are sitting in a replicated cab that cost a million dollars that’s installed in a training facility, you are playing a game.

You don’t have a manager to explain things to. It’s a game. If you don’t want to put up posters don’t. But if you want a “real experience” fill out an application with the nearest train operator. You’re never going to get the full experience in a game. But TSW is about as close as you’re gonna get.

 

Just because it becomes pc exclusive doesn't mean it turns into a simulation

 

Collection of items has no real benefit in a driver simulation, instead the focus should be on the feel from the seat.

 

I am a driver, only trying to help out in trying to improve things that’s all. But this is not as close as you’ll get, trust me

 

Then just drive and don't bother with "gamey" stuff if it really bothers you that much.

You don't have to go for the collectibles you know.

 

Interesting opinions about this, but I will emphasise time and effort is going into these additional aspects of this game, where the time could be spent bringing you a true and immersive experience.
Dovetail are quick to apply to companies for research purposes, colleagues of mine assisted in providing them with a class 150, taking it out of service especially, at a time when we really needed the rolling stock.
They could have used that time to learn about the class 150, implement some of its features in system depth, given you accurate sounds and physics, signalling for the route and modelled a realistic TPWS. And on top, charge you nearly £60 for more bugs than are actually on the front of the actual train.

 

Is the argument here that every loco should be an 'expert' loco like the BR101 Expert?

I think TSW is always trying to strike a balance between people who are keen on realistic simulation and those who just want to have a bit of fun. Some people just want to pick up and drive whereas others would be fine with following the real life manual to the letter and take 10 minutes setting up the train. I think the game mostly gets the balance right.

Though if you're referring to the Riviera Line inaccuracies I'm curious what is particularly inaccurate with the 150 and signalling? Main issues seem like that it should top out more at 75mph and I saw another driver mention minor issues like the type of light used in some signals.

 

yes, and whether you guys like what I'm going to say or not, it's how it should be
after all, what does the "sim" in "train sim world" mean if not "simulator," huh?
and I'll go further, another thing that should change (and it irritates me deeply) is the issue of routes ending in random places, far from the final place where the route actually ends in reality
also add to all of this bugs and more bugs and the slowness of DTG to fix them

just an example: the transition from electric mode to diesel mode in the ALP-45DP;
just watch any video of the mode transition being made and you'll see how long the process takes (at least much longer than in the TSW)
for the pantograph to be retracted, the engines have to start first (there are two, so one starts and then, when the first has already started and the second is in the start process, only then is the pantograph retracted)
in TSW, it's ridiculous, totally arcade and pathetic you have the engine start, which barely makes a starting sound (and quickly changes to an idle sound) and then the pantograph is retracted at the same time, pathetic...

 

1) Just like the flight sim forums, taking your aim at consoles isn’t the problem. I know people think of console as “not sim” because of how consoles were in the past, but current gen are pretty powerful machines and probably more powerful than many with mid-to-low tier PCs. MSFS is a perfect example where study level planes are available for XBox users and a decent percentage of those who use them are on console now.

2) I think your issue is that more generic gamers usually play on console, which Id agree with, but just because something is a PC exclusive doesn’t mean it’s automatically a true sim. Also trophies have absolutely nothing to do with the development since it’s a different part of the sim and I’d assume a separate team working on it vs who works on the actual train piece.

3) That being said, I thought the point of differentiating TSW and TSC is that TSW was more of a pick up and play with sim options while TSC was much more sim focused for more of the hardcore players. Maybe I have that wrong, but that’s what it seems like to me when looking into both (I haven’t used TSC in years so again, could be wrong).

 

I do like the attempt of some people here to gaslight that a thread named 'less console' is somehow not taking aim at console players?

Shall we compare apples to apples?

TSC is a far cry from what TSW is in terms of realism, fully explorable rolling stock, improved suspension modelling, improved cab interactivity, pretty much everything has been expanded.

So in what way, exactly, is console preventing this from being a 'proper' simulation?

The only way TSC gets close to some aspects of TSW is with a wad of cash thrown at AP and the like, even then it still has to obey most of TSCs archaic functionality.

The team have made it clear, repeatedly, that without console, TSW wouldn't have been possible, so what exactly is 'less console' supposed to achieve here?

Even if we look at content such as the expert 101, it obviously wasn't impacted by the existence of consoles, and all signs suggest that it sold pretty well on them.

It's clear you don't think the simulation is detailed enough, but why is your first thought towards a 'consolised' product?

Further, do you really believe that collectibles of all things are impacting the development of a fully simulated 150? I suppose that's why you are a driver and not a programmer....

Its not as if the pc version is selling poorly either, surely a console specific experience wouldn't be climbing up the steam charts compared to previous editions?

By all means ask for a better simulation, but maybe try doing it without angering the majority of the playerbase, you know, the people that fund the continued improvement of the sim?

If DTG took the advice of some forum members, they'd have closed doors years ago.

 

The console game market has limited this simulators potential, and it’s a fact sadly, features are unable to be programmed because the console cannot handle it. It’s clear to me, it is about sales targets and deadline. Rushed out and charged at high prices. Sadly they’ve gone for the money and larger audiences on consoles.
Third party don’t even seem to be that interested in it or developing much for it, there’s a warning flag there I think? If I was Just trains etc I’d consider developing my own simulation platform, because they have created to me the most realistic simulation system so far.
But, I have no doubt programming would love to have added this and that for you to enjoy, but sadly don’t get a say in the final product as well because of the way management works.
Train world as I call it, will continue to grow in bug infested DLC, but you won’t get any value for money out of this without a change in direction, or it will cease to exist in the not so distant future.

 

See now, I don't entirely agree with this. Yes DTG won't add certain sim features, and yes things get rushed constantly, but I wouldn't say this is caused by console (if anything I guess the situation would actually be worse without the funding of console sales). I think the problem is more that, in my opinion, they are fairly money hungry. I cant think of a single feature that a console now couldn't handle but a PC could, unless its something that needed more than 16 buttons.
I believe that consoles can limit the game, but not in these ways, more so just in route length/detail and the way how everything must be so certified on console and updates/products are a lot more difficult to be published on consoles.
I find myself to be very much in the middle with this, I see huge positives and negatives to both sides.

Personally I feel, a lot of the problem lies with how much how much more difficult it is for users to create content for this game compared to TSC. Because default TSC is just the worst, but if you use community content that have been pushed so far over the years, it can transform it into a completely different game. TSW doesn't have this at all, not in the same way.

 

Man, whats with the forum recently driving a stake between PC and Console users?

 

If this game is developed for console 1st I'll be a monkey's uncle.

Explain why console users get the worst experience, even Gen9. Blurry textures on any route that has more than 6 types of traction on it.

I'm not expecting parody here if stuff needs to be cut back so be it, I realize I paid at most half of what a PC player did for their gear so I'm not expecting complete equality here, I put up with lower LOD, popping in mountains and scenery, not having access to mods.

But the game should at least be playable out of the box with all our content that you allowed us to bring over. Not N64 graphics.

So no way is it created console first let alone console friendly.

 

This has already been proven wrong by MSFS. Plenty of features work fine and third party devs have made major study level aircraft and near fully featured airports working on console with only minor limitations while allowing the full features to work on the PC version.

If the sim optimization is scaled correctly, it can run fine on both console and PC with the console having near full features of that of the PC. You are just looking to find excuses for why the things you want aren’t part of TSW and instead of asking why these features aren’t added, you are jumping to the incorrect conclusion that it’s console users’ fault.

 

You also underestimate the amount of people that get involved in learning and understanding trains just from TSW, whether it be PC or console. I know a few friends of mine that had zero interests in trains at all outside of taking them to travel and when they saw that I had TSW, they all eventually got interested and ended up picking it up for console to just try it out. They started with just the basics of only wanting to drive the trains to eventually learning some of the details that TSW offers. Some (including myself) have even done research outside of the sim to try to understand how these trains actually work in real life.

The feeling of the need to gate keep the train sim community is what is going to take it down, not trying to appeal to potential new customers who can end up sharing the passion for trains and train simming. We should be happy to grow the community so it’s more people we can discuss with and more people who help keep it alive.

 

You can get the full experience of how TSW would be without consoles, you know? Just uninstall the game and play something else, because that's what we would have without console sales.

I'm on PC and I love setting up and operating the expert 101, but we must be realistic, if all trains were like that the game wouldn't have sold nearly as much as it has.

 

Am same as you, am on series x. I prefer driving the train, i mean if i spot a collectible while driving, i may go back later for it, but i dont go looking for them.

 

DTG has said repeatedly that the game is developed for PC and then scaled back as necessary for consoles. Consoles are not holding it back.

 

Actually, in the german "preview stream" (the one in german), Lukas said that the game reaches a point where consoles (especially Gen 8) are holding back other platforms.

 

DTG is a business, now driven by their owners Focus Entertainment to make profits first and to entertain the masses second.

If a game generates more revenue, more profit and is easier to maintain on a strictly controlled, tightly specified, tamper free closed system like gaming consoles, DTG will be forced to focus on that system. Simply because it generates a bigger profit vs investment.

PC is only needed for development, since consoles are sort of a poor man's PC with a completely different player base, its players aren't interested in development and do not have the tools.
PC users coming from other train sim games make much higher demands than the casual thumbstick warrior wanting to drive trains for a change.

So over time, and perhaps already, demanding PC players are becoming the pain in the *ss for DTG's customer support, and it will actually be easier to develop for the smallest common denominator aka the gaming console, instead of the infinite variety of PC hardware.

DTG is already struggling as it is to keep the game running on their different sales platforms, XBox, PS, Epic, nVidia, Steam.

 

Please uninstall

 

As a (retired) railway person (mostly Control) I do wince sometimes at a few of the concepts in TSW. However that said it is probably still my most played train game.
TSC - well I did reinstall that the other week with some curated content but you instantly miss the full timetable and free movement of TSW.
Run 8 - I go hot and cold with that one. The rail(road) simulation is first class and the industry function adds real purpose to the game, hours of fun running locals then making up manifests and taking the lot over to the hump at Barstow or West Colton to sort out. But no decent means of doing passenger ops, running to a timetable or anything like that. Their e-commerce system is a complete nightmare, too.
SimRail - a guilty pleasure once or twice a month particularly driving the old EU07 locos or the EN57 EMU. But the route gets very samey after a while, other than the Polish language servers multiplayer is now a dud and they still don’t seem serious about buffing the SP game.

So 9 times out of 10, if I’m not playing Snowrunner, Farming Sim or one of the truck games then it does tend to be TSWI hit up, despite my often vocal criticism and knowledge of all the flaws.

 

Totally agree with this. Always enjoyed seeing trains and travelling on them but didn't know much about how they were driven before picking up TSW4. Then I got more confident using what the sim had to offer and even tried to go for a driver position earlier this year.

 

Im a married dad with 2 kids. Have a full time job within the NHS. I do not have time to faff around with a PC, when I can just switch on my PS5 when I get down time. I dont have the room for a PC set up. I dont have the patience to fart around sorting out updated graphics cards and such. If you want a true simulation of driving a train, climb of your soapbox and go be a train driver. Instead of coming across as an elitist berk.

 

And there was me thinking "PC MASTER RACE!!1111!!" was a meme.

 

Can I flip the coin and just say that I'm grateful to play a train game/sim (please use your own definition) on my console. Bugs, foibles and all. I quite enjoy it!

 

We all have different opinions on what TSW should be. DTG probably tries to balance between all these wishes. Personally I like the outcome for most part. Claiming it is not a simulator, without defining what a simulator is, is pointless. I am nt aware of any simulator representing 100% of real life. Simulation is always bound to a specific purpose. For TSW it probably is something like accessibility for non-professional traindrivers, a nice looking scenery (nt need for for a professional simulator) and a more or less realistic feel on what it is to be a train driver. Above all, it should be fun to play. If it is not fun, nobody will buy it. Given over 100 people are working on this product, it must be fun somehow. So what are we complaining about? If you really don't like it, don't buy it. If you buy it, enjoy what it offers instead of mocking what it cannot offer.

 

I don't have the space nor the money for a gaming PC, and am grateful that I can play such a detailed and immersive simulator without one. I used to be a PC player, but I enjoy the simplicity of console gaming, not needing to tweak settings, not needing to worry about background processes. I also don't accept the idea that console development is stopping the game from growing, or improving - that seems to be more an issue of time. I'm sure the collectibles take a small amount of time, but I'm sure it's a drop in the ocean compared with most parts of route development - the basic mechanism has been in place since the first version. What's more, having spent £100s on DLCs, I think it's going to take a much more convincing argument before I - and others - get thrown under the bus.

I think TSW strikes an excellent balance between playability and absolute detail - the expert 101 is great, but if every loco was like that I probably wouldn't play it nearly as much. Sometimes you want a challenge, sometimes you want a more relaxing journey. It's Train Sim World remember, you're not just a driver, you can be a driver, a trainspotter, a guard etc - I can't speak for everyone, but when I grab the collectibles, it's mostly in other modes, I'm not usually getting out of the cab to do it. As others have said, if you don't like the collectibles, don't collect 'em.

 

The way I play must be blasphemous since I position the camera to what is effectively known as the "nose cam" in racing games. Can't see the cab or any of the train and its height is about half a metre above platform level. For me, it doesn't take anything away from the overall experience and I am usually listening to anything other than the in-game sounds which is often a podcast or audiobook.

On a technical level, every single game whether it be TSW, Call of Duty, Battlefield, GTA and the rest, will have been made on a PC. TSC and TSW are made on a PC for PCs and then ported over to consoles which are essentially PCs (similar components) but with weaker hardware and other limitations.

Finally, If you honestly feel TSW has no future and is nothing but rushed DLC and bugs, why stick around here? We all know TSW has bugs and issues, but DTG is also a small company and not to the grand scale of EA or Ubisoft. There isn't anything wrong with collectables and no one is forcing you to find them... not to mention your apparent contempt towards younger players playing the game.

 

TSW is Train Sim WORLD (everything to do with trains including treasure hunt, conductor mode etc) TSC is more focused on the drive/journey and is limited to pc. Both have their pros and cons. If you want the best experience (in my opinion) get the base TSC and gather some of the 3rd party enhancements. I have a huge collection with both products. When I have time I like to take a long journey with TSC. When I am short on time I will mess about with TSW. DTG will never keep everyone happy. Choose with your wallet.

 

Good post buddy, don't let the console kiddies grind you down. I never walked around the depot looking for posters or timetables to grab or trophies to collect. That is all a complete nonsense in what is supposed to be a simulator. Ooooer points make prizes.

 

I don't recognise the game from the OP. I find it very immersive, maybe if you are a train driver it isn't going to be sufficiently immersive for you.

I don't bother with the collectables or worry about scoring but they are there for those who enjoy that sort of thing. I just enjoy driving different trains from different eras in different countries.

It certainly isn't perfect but they are presumably doing something right as they are still here, despite the many lecturing posts over the last few years, 17 if we go back to Rail Simulator, as if I recall they were doing it all wrong back then.

 

He is not lecturing, it is his opinion buddy. Too many people on this forum think they have the right to brow beat people into submission.
Me personally i never lecture, i don't care enough about what people who have never been in the industry think.
If they annoy me, they go on the ignore list............simples.

 

Like seemingly everything in life these days, the game is divisive.
It tries to deliver on both fronts - a game and a simulator - and falls somewhere in the middle.
I like to ignore collectibles and you can forget Thomas the Tank Engine.
My enjoyment from TSW mostly comes from Just Trains. Learning to drive the Class 87 was a challenge I threw myself into and now I enjoy the challenge of driving it and navigating the neutral sections.
It will never happen but I now want to drive an 86 or 87 in real life!

 

To The OP.

I suggest you uninstall the game and find a game that suits your needs more appropriately.
You seem to be unhappy so find something that does make you happy.

 

I play on both PC and console (PS5) but have to say so far the console version is not lighting any fires.
First of all the faff with downloading DLC which decided to install itself as the TSW4 version first. As an aside, topic re that in Troubleshooting locked by the mods before I had finished my investigation and confirmed solved.
So thought I would fire it up this morning (PS5) while the rest of the DLC downloaded in the background.
Anyone familiar with the movie Poltergeist will have heard the phrase, “They’re back…” Well so is the derailment bug on BML with the Electrostars at Victoria. Someone managed to unravel the spaghetti code which fixed this from TSW4 to TSW5. Presumably nobody thought to check how these older routes work in the new version on all platforms.
Next up, NTP. Fired up the Class 101 DMU for a quick run but found the D-pad is now super sensitive and cannot be used to control the gear change.

Just glad I only “bought” the free Starter Pack for the PS5…

 

Get your facts straight i did not call any console players names. Ignore list......................

 

Why any train operating company would spend time working with this company, or allowing its brand to be shown when some of the above comments are made is beyond me.
I’ve taken time to provide some feedback, both as a consumer and from a professional perspective. Remember, you wouldn’t have this content in the first place without people like myself whiling to share industry knowledge and expertise. Sadly not much of it is represented in this software.
I make a valid point about a simulator, one of my closest friends is a captain for a well known low cost airline, and uses home simulation to help prepare for his recurring missions on the sweatbox, could I do that in this software? I think not.
I’ll leave you now, thank you for the insults, they are touching I must say. But you won’t be getting any more horn blasts from my IET when you’re out next with your tri-pod!

 

Wow, did this thread take a turn for the worst. Never did I think people could get so toxic over trains until one day I found this forum.

 

Haha I absolutely agree. The forum here is so toxic. I really can't understand the problems, like it is a GAME. There might be people that like it just for casual gameplay experience and some maybe want it more detailed. in the end it's a game that simulates driving a train. And simulation does not mean 1:1 accuracy. It can have different levels of simulation. And if the guy that started this thread is anyways a train driver then he has the ultimate experience. In the end it is a game just a game that should entertain you some more some less.

 

"$60 Game isn't 100% the same as real life!"

And

Lmao oh no we won't be getting anymore horn blasts from the condescending real-life choo choo driver!!! What a devastating loss!!!

I honestly think i might need a sick-day to recover

 

Ultimately it's about market, not hardware platform, and I think the market research will have shown that the balance they have now is the most successful model. Hardcore simulation might be wanted by a few, but I feel it will be a smattering of users. So, an in-depth simulation would be best served, potentially, by a separate software solution. But a developer investing in that seems unlikely if market research shows there will be negligible return. I would bet sales of the expert loco would have already shown a low appetite for such things and it's telling that no more expert locos have been developed yet.

 

Instead, we get gimmicks like faults and announcements ....
but these won't make a shallow train driving game any deeper?

 

It's sadly clear here, the comments speak for themselves. People don't like hearing the truth, or are too young to undertand.

It's a marketed apporach by DTG, and one that will bring in the most revenue, and little turn around costs to produce. This will never be a simulator, and I advise you don't waste anymore money on it.

If you want to explore and collect things, there are many other good alternatives out there, but a product that states it's a realistic driving simulator?

Also when a company hires people who all have conflicting ideas, but no real interest in the industry they are trying to represent, then you have the issue. I can tell you now, most of the research material in this was probably never even considered due to cost, or lack of interest in the idea.

I know a lot of you have aspirations to become real drivers, but don't insult people for having a valid opinion, especially from someone who knows how it feels to drive a train safely. You won't go very far in life with an attitude, not in this industry anyway.