Less Console Game, More Simulator Please!

The branding license is a separate thing, anyone can apply to use a company logo, but needs permission under copyright etc. If you wanted to stick a TOC’s logo on a pen they’d want something back.

The operations and getting access to trains facilities for the research materials is where the line is drawn, and most of the time it’s down to contacts in the community who provide support. Route maps etc were provided I believe for the Rivera line. Sadly, even with these they didn’t get the signals correctly in or the speed boards.

 

This thread is just like the threads in MSFS2024 … some say it should be a simulator without career and the such, others say it is a game… I say it is a tool to use as YOU see fit. Same argument of consoles versus PC. I am a firm believer of using it as you so desire and let others do the same. There is so many other important situations that one can get wrapped around the axel on and in the long run for both, it is just entertainment. As I am pushing 70, just live and let live I say.

best

 

I want to know when DTG ever said this game was a serious simulator for serious fans only?

Like the OP thinks it should be.

I must have missed the memo.

 

it's in the name... isn't "train sim world" supposed to be a simulator? what does "sim" mean if not a simulator? and if it is a simulator, then how can it be what it has become today, a silly arcade game?

 

People can play the game however they want and do not have to conform to one person's preference. If someone wants to find collectables then that is what they will do and if someone doesn't then they don't have to. TSW is trying to cater for a wider audience and not for one or two who have certain expectations and standards. I also have MSFS 2020, and I do not play that as a simulator going from A to B on realistic flightpaths or completing goals, setting up cockpit etc... I start off at Gatwick, set the engines to full and fly whatever and wherever, flying it as if I was flying a plane in GTA V.

I used to play TSC quite a lot, which is generally considered a better simulator, and I would mess around on there too doing London to Brighton speed runs in a TGV and hitting over 200mph on the Gatwick bit. YouTubers would race trains, use mods to make the trains go hundreds of Mph and have instant stopping abilities. People like to have fun and do what they like on these games and not take it so seriously.

 

So Powerwash Simulator is perfectly accurate or Lawn Mowing simulator. It's in the name isn't it?

Just because it has simulator in it does not make it a 100% representation.

MSFS gives you great realistic simulation with Dune and Halo vehicles.

If you think MSFS is a perfect accurate represention of flying a plane you are a long way off. The study level DLC's come close but still are not completely realistic either.

Career mode anyone? Can we get anymore arcade like?

Either way its a game not a simulator.

The company I used to work for Calgary Transit has a simulator it cost them $1.8 million, is the closest thing to the real feel of driving a trai, took 7 years to develop and is run by 15 high power custom computers that were just upgraded last year.

So if you are willing to get a setup like that you will never have a truly realistic simulation.

Oh and TSW's graphics are 10x better than what you get for $1.8 million. Think Zusi graphics thats it.

 

We thank you for single-handedly keeping this series alive and cannot wait until you stop supporting it and lead us to a true sim platform away from all the children that play on consoles.

 

If you take a look around this forum you'd see its basically 60% criticism of the game. There is no issue about tolerating criticism of the game. What the community wont tolerate is a massive...

 

Bloody hell the weekend has started early, this level of spicy drama is never conducted in the open space of a weekday, it's generally in the back alleys of the weekend where the forum guardians can't find folks.....

 

Actually train operating companies and many train operators have more than a keen interest and provide all kinds of input into the game.

They do it by giving technical expertise and improving the experience on the back end, not by coming to the forum and insulting people for their choice of platform with ridiculous reasoning and a massive chip on their shoulder.

Just saying.

 

Is there any reason the OP doesn’t just play other sims? Asking seriously because there are other train sims that are considered more sim for PC that are pretty well known and might be better to focus on if TSW isn’t meeting the need of simulation.

 

Sadly...

Now that's a great sim!

 

Is this you?, a foolish person that really thinks that this game would survive without the console funds.

it’s just like someone thinking they can win against a fighting machine with just a cross

 

Wow, what an absolute load of hogwash. Why oh why if you're a train driver are you getting so upset about a GAME and a game that doesn't ever pretend to be something it's not?! DTG are a business, they have to make a product that will appeal to the largest player base possible. Play it h you want, live and let live. You're a train driver and that's great, but it's very different to running a successful software company.

 

I know it might be a novel idea, but what about making 'expert' styled rolling stock so it simulates a train operations from real world and also making it completely optional via settings menu. I know nobody did it before and that it really is a solution that require extensive thinking to come up with, but it would work really well within this product. You could select if you want casual or expert type of gameplay.

Edit: Thanks for autocorrect giving me a Nobel.

 

They have already released an expert level loco. I'm guessing sales weren't high enough to justify doing more. Or maybe they do have more in the works...

 

Agree with this . They need to make sure they dont lose the focus on creating a reasonably accurate simulation otherwise it will just become an outright arcade game . Some people may like it like that , but I’m sure the majority do want realism in the simulation. Certainly for me that’s a big part of the enjoyment of the game.

 

But I meant for it being a base feature, for now we only have just one German loco, what if you want UK, or US, or even something else, if they get full access to Rolling stock (like was the case with class 150), I would expect to have all aspects of its operation in a SIM title.

 

Is the console at fault here... not really.
DTG is of the opinion that they need a broader audience to make TSW a viable product. Personally I feel this is why DTG have to decided to "gamify" TSW in attempt to attract a broader audience on both PC and consoles. Other studios have a heavier focus on the simulation part and seem to do just fine. So one could argue the fact that TSW would only be viable when it is gamified in order to attract a bigger audience.

Train sims are a small niche in the gaming landscape, "hardcore" train sims are a even smaller niche within that niche.
Targeting a broader audience instead of the small niche or even the smaller niche means "gamification" compared with TSC. This "gamification" would've happend no matter what, consoles or no consoles as maximizing money has priority over delivering a niche simulation.

Yes consoles are technically more and more capable of running simulation games and the technical part does not need to be a barrier anymore to create simulation games for consoles. However numbers show that the average console player is not exactly the "hardcore" simulation player. So DTG is seeking a broader audience by expanding to console but would shoot themselves in the foot if they make a "hardcore" simulation game for console.

In the end it is DTG that choses to try to squeeze every cent out of the TS franchise and prioritize maximizing profits over creating a "true" simulation for a niche audience. Consoles do not change this chosen strategy.

 

Absolutely would be the best way, but I just wonder if they used that expert loco to gauge interest and decided it wouldn't be worth developing as an integrated feature.

 

As regards the expert loco, I took a hard pass on the 101. Not because it was expert per se, but simply because it was a traction type we already had in game and pretty much played to death.

I also draw on my experience of expert stuff in earlier versions of Flight Sim. The Level D 767 was a great plane to fly and not too challenging, but I remember the Ready For Pushback 747 where after 50 minutes I’d still only got two engines running and gave it up as a bad job.

 

I would be interested to know what proportion of services run with safety systems on. That would tell a story I'm sure DTG is already well aware of.

 

I'm waiting for the train sim that pays me just like a driver in the real world.

 

Imagine if it were so realistic you got fired and couldn't run the software again.

 

Well according to this post by Maik expert locos are not economical to build.

So I'm guessing it is not that profitable.

 

Confirms what I thought.

 

The expert level 101 must have made a healthy chunk of cash, they are making a expert level 140 I think it was, so it clearly is slightly profitable at least.......

 

expert DB BR 145 actually

 

Or its made by enthusiasts in their spare time so they dont care if its profitable or not as they have other jobs to pay the bills. Judging from what Maik said previously.

 

TruckersMP needs that.

 

I agree with the OP in part, for me it’s realism, realism, realism.

But I don’t think we should exclude members of the community that are about points, collectibles or mastery.

It’s a very hard balance DTG have to strike, I want to drive the train, like a driver from the cab. I’m not the slightest bit interested in going for a walk along the Dawlish Sea Wall. This is where a ATS got their Manchester Route spot on, as it’s a proper cab experience, you can see what you are meant to see from the cab, not people looking for some misplaced scenery a mile out!

Unfortunately, even the community doesn’t know what it wants sometimes, we’ve heard the calls for realism, until the updated LIRR came out with the enforced safety systems, all of a sudden it was “oh not that kind of realism”. Some members of the community struggle with the safety systems, it’s a fact and DTG are caught in the middle of not alienating a portion of players that just want to casually drive a train.

I’m enjoying properly route learning the Riviera Line, it’s a very interesting route (and my favourite in game) learning all the gradients, where to shut off and apply power, signal locations, braking points.

Even I’d say I’m not a properly authentic train driver in the game, as most of the time I drive with the HUD on (with the exception of the signal aspects) and if the game forced you to be HUDless for example, I’d be lost on a route I’d never played.

 

I think the discussion isnt about "consoles or pc", i always liked the fact TSW offers a lot to anybody. Ride as passenger, doing collectable hunts etc.

But i agree with the op that DTG should keep a strict line for train related features, sinces its a train sim.
The yearly release of "new features" makes it more difficult to keep up with the quality in the future.

The 114 is a perfect example how train related functions get cutted of for giving priority to nonsensical gimmickery.

 

The LIRR episode was very illustrative of the hard choices DTG have to make on TSW sometimes:

If they had cancelled the release after it had already been announced, it would have been a PR and financial nightmare for them, so they agreed to the licensors' demands for safety systems always being on, and were met with a wave of angry forum users inisisting the route was broken because they failed to do the tutorials, or complaining that restrictions/complications were being foisted upon them and demanding the mod community rectify this horrible injustice.

What's really interesting to me, is that there was a LOT of overlap from the frequent "console kiddies/one-handled plastic toy trains" complainers, and what that tells me, is that "realism" is subjective and a lot of time most players want a sensible balance between reality and fun, but many also want to be perceived as "authentic" and "hardcore", for whatever reason.

Another example is when Sherman Hill released the air system on those 100+ car trains was taking a realistic amount of time to apply and release the brakes, and the forum collectively lost its' mind- DTG lowered the time and it's been mostly forgotten about since.

 

I’ll just illiterate what I’ve already stated.

This is sadly now a console game for a younger audience. Your simulator is dying.

It won’t be long now before MSFS goes the same way, people can’t even log on some days because of the consoles playing the cheap DLC doing the loop the loop.

Hopefully an alternative comes along for this market, and I’m sure it’s lurking in the background at ATS in the no so distant future. Have faith in Alan to save the community!














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Reiterating (oh the irony!) your argument doesn't make it stronger.

 

I have no idea what you're trying to get at here, sorry. Have you any evidence to back up this claim? Perhaps the problem is that Microsoft/Asobo can't keep up with the bandwidth since they decided msfs sound be completely streamed from the cloud. If so, doesn't that hint that consoles are more popular than pc?

(No rush BTW, I'm off to see if i can fire some cannons with my thumbsticks on console)

 

Do you ever get bored about being so wrong

 

You could also raise the question is a cannon that shoots towards passing trains and passengers on a platfrom really appropriate?

 

They found time for that, yet doing a quick run on WCMLS earlier I still had people wandering across the slow lines at Harrow in front of my (fortunately stationary) train. By all means put the little features in to widen the audience and make people smile, but get the basics working properly first.

 

Because a freight train changing crews on the mainline would already have its brakes charged from the previous crew, with Sherman Hill, there is no air when you start up, so you have to wait for them to charge, then wait for them to release before leaving, which isn't realistic.

 

Just checking there are mature members on this forum that can understand the meaning of words

 

Sorry, I won't fire virtual paper confetti at a virtual train containing virtual passengers in a game called train sim world ever again.

Must cause havoc with real life RHTT trains cleaning up all the confetti I've fired in TSW.

 

Because your too mature and sophisticated to play this childs game?

Or are you an elitist? As you seem to be looking down your nose at everyone on these forums.

We get it your right and we are all wrong little children.

 

No chance of that; they can't even simulate low adhesion!

 

I think we should all stop feeding the troll now, the biggest kid of us all. Oh the irony, again.

 

I must have imagined the time I managed to spad on BCC in the snow then because I braked too hard on the decline and couldn't recover?

 

Guys, if you want a real driving experience, whether it be on your console or pc, this software will need to change.

We're often asked how realistic it feels, look at the live streams with drivers they've done, this is scripted so they can stick words on for marketing.

But when they ask people like myself, I won't hold back. Sadly your simulator and it's dlc is far from anything like it's marketed at.

I'm not a troll, DTG is supposed to be market leader in a train simulator, and remember that. And they charge enough for it too!

 

yes, but people here seem to be happy to give money to a company that sells one thing and delivers something completely different

 

It's strange isn't? I'd love to see the true refund data, maybe a freedom of information request would be a good idea?

 

Has happened to me too, more than once