Digital Traction Release The Lms Twins Diesel Dlc For Train Simulator Classic!

DT LMS Twins Diesel Loco Pack | Digital Traction

 

Bought it, at about GBP 15 it isn't that expensive. Master key animation and dead man's pedals take a bit getting used to, since there are no key commands to insert the key or reset the pedals. The indicator lights on the second man's side do not light up. Three headboards are provided, but they do not show up in the cab view, and therefor do not obstruct your forwards vision ;-)

BTW, didn't DT say it is quitting developing for TSC? There is still a BR Class 122 'Bubblecar' in the works?

 

There is a 122 Single Car DMU and the DPU version of the same unit.

 

What's the cab like? Is it custom built to represent the prototype or a re-hash of something else?

 

The DT Facebook page has lots of pictures: https://www.facebook.com/DigitalTraction , but I've been unable to find prototype cab interior photographs for comparison.

Given the price, the model isn't of AP high fidelity regarding operations in the sim. At first I thought the brake pin needs to be removed before the vacuum train brake handle can be moved, but I haven't found evidence of this. There also appears to be no independent locomotive brake handle, while the HUD and [] keys still work according to the inputmapper.

In the model, the driver figure is seated very low, barely able to look over the nose. While the virtual driver is seating high. Perhaps in those days, the locomotive crew still was supposed to work standing up, and the seats were only to be used when out on the mainline?

Reading the FB comments, several bug reports and suggestions have been made.

I'll look over the files myself and try to lower the headboard position on the rebuilt by BR locomotives representing the later phases and see if there are any hidden features

 

Thanks, I wish they'd put all those facebook photos on the website as it would have saved me bothering you! I don't have facebook membership so I can't see everything so your reply has been very helpful.
There's a group looking to build a replica of 10000, Ivatt Diesel Recreation Society - Recreating LMS 10000, but I can only see one photo showing part of the cab on their site. Perhaps DT might consider a contribution to the project.
If I find more cab photos I'll link them here.

 

Vacuum Brake handles never had a pin.
Does the Loco Brake work work with [] keys?

Not sure about the driver standing up as he would bang his head on the curved roof
In real life the driver was sat down and could see over the nose.
I don't know why the Digital version is different

 

Here are some F12 screen shots from the default 'head' which seems to correspond with the photograph posted above, which is staged since there is no handle inserted in the reverser.

This is how the driver is seated and looks out from the cab in "8" view:

The "1" cab view doesn't have the headboard obscuring view over the nose. There are photographs with the headboard below the nose or above the buffer beam, where there is a lamp/disc hook.

Unfortunately, the Windows Snipping Tool closes the full screen TSC window and doesn't allow me to record a few seconds of screen video with audio from the cab.
I suppose DT visited the replica (which is built using some original 1940's parts and parts salvaged from period locomotives) or had access to other research material.

The locomotive appears to have dual brakes, while the train is vacuum braked?
There are the usual vacuum gauges and also a reservoir pressure gauge.
I assume the independent locomotive brake is part of the default simulation setup and hasn't been removed by DT since it doesn't appear to have a function?
The automatic train brake seems to have been simulated using a contemporary release-running-graduated self lap-full service-emergency formula, which is at odds with a period vacuum braking scheme?

 

In your first picture there is a handle on the LH side above the DSD Pedal - is that the Loco Brake?

The loco, like most older diesels, has Vacuum Train Brakes and Air operated Loco Brakes
Hence the need for the reservoir pressure gauge
If you have a Class 35 Hymek they are Vacuum Train and Air Loco

DT have not visited the loco being reconstructed as, AFAIK, there is no body yet - just a Frame and an engine.
And for it to run on the Mainline it would need Air Brakes or Dual Brakes, not just Vacuum.
I think the Cab will be more like a Class 45 when its finished.

 

Since the DLC's manual isn't available online, here are two screencaps showing the control layout for driver and second man:

There is no DSD with the yellow flower indicator. Two man crews were compulsory in those days I suppose. Nor it there a two tone horn. There is sanding animation.

Downloading Cubbyhole's 1960's North Wales Coast and his other routes and scenarios now, to get some screenshots in a more contemporary setting using prototypical diagrams. I can use LocoSwap to substitute a Twin in stead of a LMS Patriot on the Irish Mail and see what they're worth.
LMS 10000 and 10001 look big and imposing, but at 1600 HP are comparatively weak for their weight. And given the unreliability of those early Diesel-electrics the pair of Twins were needed to substitute for a 7P steam loco or on freight workings.

 

I just asked a question about the loco brake on DT's FB page.

Some problems with the loco about coupling to stock and the other loco according to their FB post.

 

DT is aware of some bugs and problems and said they're working on them.

I went over the .bin files and there are no hidden "secrets" AFAIK.

 

Some slight confusion here? AWS didn't appear until the late 1950s, but could well have been fitted to these locos in their later life. The term Drivers Safety Device wasn't invented until much more recently, always known as the Dead Man's Pedal before that; it had no connection to the Automatic Warning System. I did clamber into the cab of one in 1967, but can't remember a lot!

John

 

But it is still the same thing - The pedal on the floor - whatever you wish to call it that week

 

DT already updated and fixed/improved:

Hello,

Please note the LMS Twins Diesel Loco Pack has been updated to V1.1.

This included the following fixes

- Added CTRL+ P Keybind to control Deadman's pedals
- Corrected Keybind for instrument lights (I)
- Altered nameplate models and altered placing to correct as per prototype
- Alterations to brake physics
- Minor alterations to loco physics
- Altered driver position very slightly
--Altered cab occlusion slightly
- Correct fuel tank data
- Changed manual to reflect default Deadman's pedal is now depressed (on). Not strictly prototypical but ease of use.
- Vacuum gauge animation issue

I will change CTRL + P to E, as per AP key mappings
Perhaps some other features can also be mapped to AP-like keybinds

 

No information on the Loco Brake though - no reply on DT's FB page either

 

The pair were booked onto the Midday Scot job, North one day South the next 6 days a week. This was in the late 1950s as I saw them regularly in my school holidays passing through Tamworth Low Level. Coronations were the on the opposite schedule. They were taken off when the schedules were slowed and train lengths shortened to compensate for electrification work slacks. EE type 4s (class 40) replaced them and the Coronations in I think 1961/2.

 

Took some hunting for assets, but the author kindly provided a whole list.
Anyway, it is 1962 and repainted BR 10001 is in charge of The Irish Mail, and has just left Chester on its way to Holyhead.
John Rutherford is the author of this extensive remake of the North Coast of Wales main line, set in the 1960's.
While not as good IMO as Andy Freeman's NWC&Conwy Valley - BR Blue, it is still a reasonable effort.
Hopefully, the remaining kinks will be ironed out in a future update.
(https://cubbyhole.co.uk/home/downloads/crewellandudno)
There are also a two dozen scenarios taken from actual timetables and diagrams available, but you'll need a lot of period rolling stock

 

Is anybody still having problems with this loco? Even after the installing V1.1 I am still seeing issues with the vacuum gauge not showing correct values, especially after emergency application. Generally the brakes dont "feel" right, more on or off, rather than a gradual application. There are other issues as well, but are minor compared to the brake issue .
Keith

 

I have the impression the v1.1 brakes are worse.
Is the brake formula even correct for vacuum braked stock?
Or is the locomotive's Westinghouse brake considered leading in the simulation?

 

The loco does not have a Westinghouse Brake as the Train Brakes are Vacuum
It should just have a Straight Air Brake.

 

Since this was a prototype locomotive, what brakes were fitted on the following production series?
So I can have a look at the differences in the Simulation.bin files?

 

According to my "LMS Locomotive Profiles" book , The locomotives were vacuum braked, the vacuum being created by two Westinghouse 3V72 vacuum exhausters driven by English Electric EE714/5G motors.
So I think its what Peter is saying just vacuum ! No air.

 

And pressurised air was used for switchgear, wiper actuators, sanders and such?
Does the book mention anything about independent locomotive brakes?
There is a brake pin modelled I think, perhaps to unlock loco from train brakes?
It would be interesting to know something about the brake valve since it is completely different from a steam locomotive.

 

There were two prototypes - there was no production series.

 

But the experience gained was used in following classes, including parts that had proven themselves in the prototypes.
So we have first generation EE locomotives in a more high fidelity DLC with accurate scripts?

 

The difference is the First Generation EE locos, Class 20, Class 37 and Class 40 are still running today both on Heritage lines and on the mainline. That makes it easier for the creators to get pictures and sounds from the locos.

The LMS twins were scrapped by the end of 1968 and with only limited pictures of the locos you might be able to build the bodyshell but the inside of the loco and the sounds are guesswork.

 

LOL, the dynamic AP weather turned to rain, how typical of North Wales.
The windshield wipers cover only a 60 degrees arc instead of 110.
The modeled driver figure sits low enough to look through the wiped area, but the player can't.
Luckily, the weather quickly cleared after leaving one of the tunnels.

I kept the v1.0 download, because I think the v1.1 braking physics aren't an improvement I might take a closer look at the brake simulation.
The v1.1 package has some garbage i.e. unused bin and xml files still left.

The FB page doesn't tell of another update and 749006 didn't get an answer yet regarding locomotive brake.
I've checked my game's class 20, 37 and 40 and all have different, probably more modern, brake valves.
I still have the old IHH on an archived RW2 or RW3 install and must check these too. I suppose however, IHH's scripting isn't very advanced above standard Kuju's of the same game.

 

Well I did raise a ticket with DT as regards my issues with the vacuum gauge not working correctly, and the brakes not "feeling right" etc. The response was as follows.
"Hello,
Thanks for contacting us.
Believe it's a TS Classic issue, but something we're looking into.
Best Regards
Digital Traction"

By the way, This issue was raised on their Facebook page by someone else, but I cant find it now !

Luckily I have the initial version plus version 1.1. So when I have time I will compare the versions.

Keith

 

You can directly compare the .XML files using the free WinMerge tool (https:\\winmerge.org) and find substantial differences between v1.0 and v1.1 simulation files.
I wonder DT tricked the simulation to make it work in the Twins, definitely non-standard locomotives, as not all parameters are taken into account by the gamemanager.dll, the core of TSC.
I am still on v75

 

When the Twins really didn't have an independent direct locomotive brake, I'll try removing it's references in the engine.bin files, keyboard mapper.bin, simulation.bin and such to remove the controls from the HUD.
And find out whether a light loco still brakes, since it appears not to have advanced brakes using virtual controllers and scripts?

 

So am I.
I wonder if its worth downloading a new bare copy of TSC just to see if I still see the same issues.

 

Well, there are lots of reports of scripts acting differently or being broken on the latest version.
Many steam era routes use modified scripts to suit the signaling peculiarities of semaphore signals.
Sometimes wrapping their .out files within the author's .lua files.
The 1960's NWC still has LNWR, LMS and other predecessor signals at many locations.

 

There is only one set of scripts that no longer work, the official consensus is that they weren't compliant in the first place but worked by more luck than judgement. The reason they stopped working is that Dovetail improved the working of scripts (both speed and memory usage) by removing redundant code in a recent upgrade.

The signals on the 1960s Crewe to Holyhead routes do not use these scripts.

John

 

Are you referring to the John Yelland's signals packs referenced on the webpage?
So far, the signals appear to work OK on the scenario where I substituted a Twin in stead of a Patriot.

I haven't run LogMate yet along with the scenario, because there usually are lots of messages since some authors have left debugging to ON and the filter options do not seem to work as intended.

As with many DLC, there are superfluous .tgt, .cost., .xml and other filetypes present which only waste storage space.
Usually, as soon as a train or route works OK, I'll run a .bat file to remove these junk files and pack all assets into .ap files to make maintenance easier and backup faster.

 

I start with replacing gamemanager*.dll with other versions. There is a thread where is described how you can force Steam to download another version of TSC without DLC.

 

"Appear to work OK"?

I don't get your point. They wouldn't have been used if they didn't work. As I said there are a specific set of very old scripts that give problems, and its quite easy to avoid using them.

Earlier you said:

You have me totally puzzled here too. Where are these "kinks" you are referring to? I'm not aware of any, but you can report issues here: https://cubbyhole.co.uk/home/support/

John

 

There are still some kinks in the mainline tracks. The author added back in the four mainline tracks removed in the 80's, making use of the left behind embankments and such.
Lots of switches and crossovers have their frogs welded together, given the complexity of some trackwork this is a very tedious job to correct. Were those curves into yards and industries, switches and crossover really that tight? Small tender locomotives and short wagons of the era loosely chain link coupled? Larger 4-6-0 and 4 axle carriages look odd in those #4 switches.
Backdating a route involves a huge lot of work replacing assets. In the early 60's Britain had just about recovered from WW II, but there were no caravan parks lining the coastline yet I suppose.
It is nice to have NWC in three era's, Conwy Branch and even some narrow gauge represented in the sim.

 

Thank you for that.

Again I would say I am unaware of any kinks in the line and would ask you to report these via the support page, being specific as to where they are located and on which running line. This will avoid hogging this thread which is wandering off-topic.

Curves into industrial premises were indeed often sharp - the lines would have generally been worked by the companies' own locomotives whch would have been small 0-4-0 tank locomotives or four-wheel diesels. There are a range of these available for TS if you want to explore those lines and they should work fine on such tight curves.

The other matters I would class as "eye candy", there is plenty to fiddle with over time - including the removal of the remainder of the North Coast Expressway and other "modern" features alongside the line. There were a good number of caravan parks along there by the 1960s, but of course not the quantity there are today.

John

 

Getting back to the thread

A video review -
I will save my money

 

A pity, great opportunity unfulfilled.

 

I thought he was being overly critical, using extremely negative language, when it wasn't justified. The texturing of the face of the buffers is poor, but it's only the buffers for heavens sake! I thought the generally body texturing was good. I didn't like the cab blind texturing, but I disagree that the rest of the cab is bad.

Sure, there are some other bugs and faults here and there with sounds and some features, but it's not irredeemably broken, which is the impression he seemed to be giving.

I have always viewed Digital Traction as being a medium quality content provider, and this is no different. It's not AP quality, but it's not AP prices either.

 

On my laptop I have signatures off, but on my PC they are on. Only then I saw the route's author 74005 was responding to my postings.

We don't know where DT got their LMS Twins references from. Perhaps the same book KeithG is referring to?

Buffer discs were perhaps initially polished on brand new locomotive, but most often coated in thick black grease, and covered in insects stuck to the grease. I didn't mind the textures, LOL.

I wondered about the sun blinds, looking like some kind of carpeting, and there is a whole roll of it above the nose door.
There are no authentic audio recordings from the period, but this particular EE engine is still around or the production engines derived from it..
Bogies sound OK on jointed rail and going through switches. One can always want more clunking and clanking, creaking and groaning.

Overall, I am satisfied with my purchase and hoping for another update to remedy the reported bugs.

Ben from PLD has the Bulleid designed D16/2 locomotives 'in development', Southern Railway's parallel development of a mainline Diesel locomotive. https://www.precision-loco.co.uk/in-development.html

Prototype locos often are and remain white elephants, 8P 4-6-2 Duke of Gloucester for instance. But are still popular with some fans, if only for the lore surrounding them.

 

I thought the lamp brackets are poor as some are attached to the curve of the main body so when a disk is on it is not straight.

In the picture you can see the lamp is at an angle instead of showing forward
AP did the same thing on their Mk2 Coaches
Bogies sounds are poor as it is the same sound from early Rail Simulator days.
The couplings are missing from both ends - just the hooks are visible

The Drivers height in the chair needs adjusting as its too high but that can done in the Cab View bin file.
Although you could see in the the engine room it was only in the editor
The Buffer textures look strange close up but not in a normal view

 

I tend to agree with you. Overall I dont think he had a good word to say about it! Yes its not perfect but far from unusable. Hopefully after a week or two an updated version will come out addressing issues that are still present.

Keith

 

There is some audio from an Argo Transacord EP here:-

https://soundcloud.com/neil-ferguso...d&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

 

Digital have now released a new update. V1.2

Keith

 

Loco now updated to V1.2

Please uninstall only version and redownload new version.

Cab Cam alterations
Texture Improvements (Decal/Roof)
Physics Improvements/brake gauge
Sound alterations
Driver figure texture improvement
Train wheels textures
Ammeter damping changes
Red lights on AI corrected and key bindings added
Clock timing tied to scenario start time
Brake and Throttle sensitivity alterations
S&C Scenario issues corrected (manual update)
Cab visor texture improvement
Lamps/Discs correctly mounted on brackets
In-Cab sound alterations

DTG should take notice of DT's swiftness of updates!


ready for departure from Llandudno station ...
(you can change the electric headlights into lamps into discs while running, and this is still the old model)

passing through Conwy, just underneath the castle.
These, and many other locations and stations already nicely backdated to the early 1960's

 

I wonder if the lamps point in 3 different directions instead of Forward?

 

Should they? Those kerosene lanterns/lamps aren't supposed to lit up the track, are they? Even the electric marker lights are just pinpoints.
The brackets and hooks sit at right angles along the curved nose and the lamps and disc sit square on their brackets/hooks.

Perhaps some period photos will give the definite answer?

Were those six position kerosene lanterns and discs even still in use during the BR phase of the Twins' careers? The explanation of headcodes in the manual points to an Southern Railway section and the Twins served the Southern region for a few years.

It is either lamps/discs or lights, no combination of both, the script takes care of this.

Since the lanterns/lamps and discs are nodes to the GeoPcDx, editing the 4x4 matrix allows you to reposition them. However, blind editing of a matrix outside of the 3D environment is tedious.

There is a driver figure seated in the leading cab. How about a second man? What kind of uniform would be on a second man? He would be send out to throw switches, couple and uncouple, or rummage in the engine room in case of a failure? No posh uniform and badged cap but ordinary coveralls and a plain leather cap?

I am not sufficiently interested in the Twins to go hunt for that sole book on them.

I suppose DT took their research from that book and I trust their rendition of the model.