All Aboard Studios Route- Crewe To Birmingham New Street.

Wonder if they be happy with a made up train ahah

 

I can see that, but the point remains. In this thread, if somebody feels they can answer it for you, they can. I'm aware you put forward your questions to the Devs, and that's completely fine. But there's no need to retaliate in a manner like that. This, is an *open* discussion.

 

There's different subclasses which have different variants, these still took a lot of work and will have notable differences from the original EMK version. Developing a train is totally different compared to building a route and both have great challenges. To say if a developer can't build a train they shouldn't build a route is something I have to disagree with completely. Different people have different skillsets and is why typically, to build a DLC, requires a team of people rather than a solo dev. A lot of work and time has gone into building this route and also cost. Pricing it any less than the standard price would not of made sense.

 

I'm glad you guys have focussed on the smaller details of this unit, especially the PIS/destination displays. I'm looking forward to the preview on Tuesday, and my bank account awaits

 

What a silly idea. This is their first product, just like all other devs they are learning the process to create new content for the game. For a first product it doesn't make sense to sink all the time and money into creating new stock from scratch, in fact what they have done is ideal: put time into upgrading and changing existing stock. It isn't brand new but it allows them to learn how some of the systems work on an already existing train and change it to the spec they want. The effort they have put in to these upgraded models, the route and the timetable is clearly evident and it allows players who already have a big collection to layer in a large chunk of it. The route itself is looking to be one of the best in TSW so far, and it is likely one of the most complex we have in the game so far, so to make the suggestion you don't want to support the devs (who will likely go on to create routes with fresh rolling stock in the future) on their first product is ridiculous to me...

 

I don't question the time and effort expended on the route.

My point is a more general one. From the outset of TSW 8 years ago and for a number of years subsequently, we were offered routes that included new train (s) for the standard price. I could list them but everyone knows which ones. This was the case at least up to and including Rush Hour.

More recently, the trend has been to use stock that has already been bought and paid for once or twice before. This does not sit well with me and ( I suspect ) other players. Actually I think it's more than a bit disingenuous.

A point was made that the 350 is the only appropriate train you could have used. However that's a function of the year that you set the route in, not the route itself. Different time period, different trains.

 

Dawg wth you on about. Do you want them to magically make a brand new train that don’t exist??
We are getting new 350 sub classes so
different models and specs, new physics and improved.
What else do you want?
Welcome to 2025 where you need to make a profit to keep running the company. It’s a stunning £30 route. Be the best modern route TSW has!

 

Don't want to sound harsh, but my Steam wallet is not meant for financing the UE learning curve.
I'm looking for value for my money and routes without new stock does not satisfy that criterion.
You think it's " silly " , I think it's prudent.

And, by the way, if you disagree with me, please do so politely, as I have been.

 

I couldn't disagree more. Building a route versus building a train are likely two different skillsets, and I'd argue building a train is a lot harder to get right (at least it seems that way to me).

If something is even slightly wrong with a train players will know. If the sounds are pitched incorrectly, or if the wrong font for the PIS display is used, people WILL complain. Wasn't there someone on either this or another thread complaining that one of the interior door panels on the 350 was the wrong shade of grey? That's exactly my point.

Would you let a talented development team go to waste just because they don't have the necessary skills to create a new train? If they did as you say and created something brand new without being ready it would likely come out half baked, and the uproar on this forum would be immense.

 

Speculation time again (sorry but can't resist)

New train stations are currently being built in Willenhall and Darlaston, as part of the new Wolverhampton - Walsall route.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walsall–Wolverhampton_line

Now that Wolverhampton is coming to TSW6, this opens-up the possibility of this line being recreated in the future, and a possible merge with the Cross City line at Aston, maybe also Bescot TMD.

 

I don't want or need to continue this particular discussion, you guys have your pov, I have mine. We're far apart.

I'll just end it by pointing out that you've all been around long enough to know that " new route includes new train(s) " used to be the expected norm. Perhaps someone could venture an explanation as to why this paradigm has changed.

 

Remember the first Dresden route? It came with TSW2 Rush Hour. That had no new trains. It came with only reused stock and that was four years ago. If there was a time when the ‘expected norm’ changed it was four years ago. Dresden was the flagship German route as part of the yearly bundle, made by DTG, and it came with exactly zero new trains. It didn’t even have any reworked trains in it. This route does.

Once people stopped concentrating on what the Dresden route didn’t come with (and there were plenty of complaints about the lack of new trains at the time) and concentrated on what it did come with, it became a firm favourite with fans and was often cited as the top German route for many years afterwards. New routes don’t always have to come with new trains and that was established four years ago. Glad I could help.

 

Has that ever been the case? I've been playing since TSW since 2020 and personally I've never felt that way.

I would also say that as the number of trains in the game increases, the number of routes where brand new stock can appear can only decrease over time.

The value in this route for me is the huge timetable, and the fact I can drive so many different classes over the line. Personally, I much prefer that over a route with one brand new train, and only that train available to drive. That's why I want more routes like this. They feel populated and varied.

 

Nobody says "Dawg" in 2025.... Apart from washed-up rappers and old people trying to sound cool.

 

The WCML has all trains needed through layers.... for Germany it´s a a different story, because Dresden and Ludwigsbahn had massive potential for new freight waggons or different dostos. Germany (and the US) really needs 1-2 more developers for more variety.

 

I share your view, in fact might even have pointed out similar earlier in this thread or the Q&A one. At one point we were at the happy balance of £25 for a route with no new train (reskin or slight reworks don’t count, as a driving experience it’s still the same loco/MU), £30 for a route with one new train and £33 for a route with over and above additional rolling stock (like WCMLoS where we got the 87 and the Mark 3’s).

Inflation is not that rampant in the UK so at best that £25 should now be (say) £27. And DTG have killed off the pre release purchase discount that always used to be an incentive to make a Day One purchase (even the TSW6 bundles only got 10% off this year, unlike 20% for loyalty and preorder of previous years).

The bottom line is, this is a route and era it would be nice to have, but not essential right now. £5 is not a huge sum of money but psychologically £25 is a lot more attractive than £30. DTG and All Aboard should also consider how much money they will lose from customers like myself, who will now wait till this route rocks up in the Easter or Summer Steam sale for £15 next year, when they could have had £25 now. Is that £5 price gouge on the cost of a route with no significant new rolling stock worth the bigger effect on the product being relegated to a sale?

Plus all the above and the cost of these products has to be set against the current state TSW6 is in and that DTG increasingly look like a company that don’t know what they doing as regards fixing and maintaining their core product.

 

I don't mind not having any new stock. There isn't really anything which could be added that would add anything worthwhile.

It's also a route where I would much prefer to drive the Pendolino on and somewhere else to drive the Voyager and the class 170.

I judge the value of a route on how much I'll use it and I suspect this will become a favourite so we'll worth £30 to me. I appreciate other people have different views. I don't feel a route needs a new train especially when there is plenty to do involving existing stock.

I would love to see the Stoke line added in the future.

 

I'm fine with some routes not having new stock. If it means more routes because of a shorter development time, then that's great.

It's possible have a foot in both camps. 1. Liking routes with no new stock and 2. Wanting new stock to drive that brings new areas of the UK into TSW so that there can be greater variety of releases.

 

There is an opinion that Stoke-on-Trent is left as an extension or addition to the route (Crewe - Stafford), because it would fit perfectly into the current route (Birm. - Crewe)

 

I understand your concern around pricing but then at the same time charging the same price for a route with double the milage as say MAC as an example doesn't make any sense. Not only that but I think what is being missed here is we have actually done a lot of work to these trains providing different sub classes with notable variations. Again I understand it isn't everyones cup of tea but I do feel like it is a huge point being missed at the moment, saying that "no new trains" which is technically not true. These are not "slight reworks or just a reskin" it has had a massive amount of work done and I'm sure we will really aim to showcase this for people in the preview stream for those who currently are on the fence about purchasing the route

 

Well, for me this is one of the most anitcipated streams so far for TSW, can't wait to see the route in action. An immense and diverse amount of playability to be had, going by the dev diary. Release this week please

 

I don’t doubt the blood, sweat and tears that has gone into this and ultimately it is DTG stealth price increases and withdrawal of the pre order discount that’s the target of my displeasure. Had this been set in BR Classic with a new Class 304 EMU for the game and AC electric locos hauling Mark One, Two and Three stock I’d have happily laid out £33 Day One. (Subject to the caveats below).

And again the more cogent issue at this time is the dire state DTG are allowing TSW to get in. Botched patch, looks like botched hot fix, apathy from those in charge over simple things like more save game slots or wider graphics options. TSW right now is not in a good place and in the cold light of day not somewhere I feel confident about dropping yet another £30 (on top of the >£70 I just paid for TSW6 and a couple of items in the sale). That’s regardless of who the content is from.

As a third party partner you need to be putting pressure on the DTG management to get a grip on things which will start to affect DLC sales.

 

Birmingham to Crewe with a multitude of stock layers and a huge TT over very detailed scenery, plus new variants and liveries of classes already in the game versus the Fife Circle with one new train and bugger little else. Mmm hard decision!

 

I already own Fife but still prefer it due to the fact that in my opinion the scenery is fine, the 158 timetable will release eventually according to Skyhook, It’s had a free extension & it’s probably one of the most non-linear routes in the game.

I also prefer modern diesel routes more than modern electric routes.

 

I find it bland and very quiet to drive. The scenery is underwhelming. Typical rivet fare.

 

But the Cabs are wrong for the Subclasses, it’s all the Same interior

 

I'd like to think some of the unnecessary criticism is in the minority here... It certainly looks that way, thankfully, and the majority of people are excited for this (myself included).

It's one of those situations I do find myself getting frustrated with when the subject of prices are brought up. If any route DLC was in the region of £50 I would agree with the resentment. But without trying to lecture people, inevitably prices rise over the years, that's how things work. You can not expect prices to remain the same as the were 5 years ago and stay like that forever, unfortunately that's how things work. £29.99 is a pretty fair price for a decent route with the love and work that has clearly gone into this DLC. I feel for the quality we are receiving this will be well worth the investment for the amount of gameplay and variety we shall be getting. If you want to pay less, then expect quality to decline. We should be encouraging the likes of AABS, not bickering with them about a price that is out of their control and a very reasonable price at that. This looks like a 'flagship' route.

The ongoing issues with the launch DLC, are a DTG issue and not a AABS issue, as are some of the core issues. This persistence in the belief that prices should be dropped for the convenience of a few really strikes me as self entitled.

Also the era isn't for everyone, I get it, but in this instance my personal belief is AABS have got the era right and are a studio who produce modern era content. If you want more retro themed stuff then JT will cater for your tastes... There is absolutely no way there is reference material for EMUs from a previous era.

I am personally very much looking forward to everything about this DLC and it really ticks all my boxes. TSW was crying out for a quality modern commuter route and I think AABS were the right team for this. This will be a day one purchase from me, and I'm quite happy the majority of people are excited for this too!

 

Railway enthusiasm has been becoming an expensive hobby for a while. Compared to the price of a lot of model railways stuff these days, TSW looks comparatively well priced. I know that's apples and oranges in many ways but there are overlaps in the fan base and it's of a similar genre.

 

Being a Crewe-ite, this a great time to be alive , with the railway town soon to be represented in 3 distinct eras in TSW! It will have to be a day 1 purchase for me, and I won’t quibble over the price tag. I do have a couple of questions though. I don’t own any of the Cargoline packs, and don’t intend to. Does that mean that I will have zero freight traffic on this route?

Secondly, I intend to purchase the Pendolino along with this route. I don’t own WCMLS and don’t really intend to unless it’s hugely reduced in a sale. I attempted to purchase the Pendo when I saw it on sale, primarily for layering into BCC and freeroam options, but it wouldn’t let me purchase it due to me not owning WCMLS. Will I be able to purchase the Pendo to use in this route without WCMLS? I’m hoping the answer is yes.

Finally, not a question, but a plea to Kezz. Please please make sure Matt and the DTG team use the correct build for the stream!

 

We have made modifications now based on feedback, whether this makes release yet, im not sure, we are working to try get it in for release though

 

Established by what, whom? The popularity of a single route? Or by a deliberate policy that seems to have escaped most players' notice?

So, Mildmay and Manchester Commuter were not " the quality modern commuter route " that TSW was crying out for? I imagine the next commuter route will also be the one we've been longing for.

We've settled into a pattern here of rising real prices without the variety and fresh rolling stock that should accompany them. I just believe it's a producer policy rather than a consumer choice.

 

I would say Crewe to Birmingham is a bit more than a commuter route.

 

Each new route is "the one TSW has been longing for" for one person or another I guess

 

Both routes you have noted are brilliant in their own right... But they are micro routes.

Crewe to Birmingham will be longer then both WCMLS, and London to Brighton with InterCity and commuter route patterns. In the era it is set, their is conclusive rolling stock that layers on. And the Class 350 included is separate to the original and far superior to the original. Given the amount of differences and subclasses this is practically a new train in my opinion.

The options are: If it this for you then buy it, but if it is not your cup of tea then don't buy it.

But I think this route will most definitely be a hit with players...

 

You know what really makes 3rd party devs want to come back to a game and keep making DLC for it? People who keep whinging and complaining about stuff that in the grand scheme of things *really* don't matter. If you're really that fussed over a new route not coming with a new train why not put all that energy into learning how to make a new train yourself? I'm sure if you did that and offered it to them they'd be more than happy to take on a new ultra high quality loco or unit. This is literally their 1st bit of DLC. At least give them a chance...

 

OldVern Crosstie Going to be brutally honest with you guys now, you have kept your opinions and that is fair enough but we have tried explaining over and over again the quality of the route and how it reaches it's value target. As SierraOscar95 said Crewe to Birmingham will be much longer than WCML South and London to Brighton. The fact we have Commuter and high speed runs at 1hr for both is amazing. Quality from the screenshots is absolutely stunning.
The fact you can't be willing to Pay £30 for such a stunning route just because it doesn't have a new train is just bizarre, it has new Sub Classes and as Kezz has explained it has different Interior, Exterior and specs. Also getting New Physics for it as well.
Also I as I have said previously they need to pay the staff for the 100s and even 1000s of hours they have put into this, scenery wise, timetable wise and performance wise. Also the distance.
This be the first Modern route that I say is Worth that £30 value and lucky for it not to be more as tbh would of expected £35 because I think the quality is stunning.
Yes we haven't played it but from looking at all the articles, screenshots etc everything looks spot on.

 

Spot on Matt

 

Also they have looked at what the community have wanted like an 1hr run with the Pendolino, Another route out of New street as well.
That tells me they care about the TSW Community and what will draw them more attention in future and giving them good sales and this is exactly what.
It is clear Both of you are JT BR Fanboys.

 

An old and discredited argument.
You don't have to be a writer to criticize a novel, nor a 350 hitter to complain about a baseball team nor a game creator to criticize a video game.

 

I didn't purchase MAC for weeks, stopping at a random station with no new rolling stock did nothing for me, I purchased it for my birthday with a gift card and still feel I got short changed. The novelty wears off so fast. No chance for decent runs, etc etc.

However this route for me is a day one purchase, several 350/ variants which are rebuilds of the 350/1 not just a copy and paste, 50 odd miles of either high speed running or stopping services, more layers than I could have hoped for and decent runs for the 390 and logical start and end points.

Personally I'd have been happy to throw £35 at this route.

 

Can't speak for Vern but I'll take that as a compliment.

 

Honestly think most of us JT BR fanboys would take it as compliment hehehe

 

Fair enough.
All I am saying is Crosstie, AAS have a small team and has slowly grown. We want TSW to keep going up with Third Parties. We want that quality, before third parties the quality was good but not Great. I honestly think you should give it a go and give them a chance. You be missing out a lot if you don't get this route.

 

I am a BR "fanboy" and would love this route to have been set in the 80's, as I would for practically every route released.

However the reality is that the vast majority of routes aren't, apparently due to popularity or maybe due to modern routes being easier to research.

I enjoy driving trains, even modern one handled ones. If the train looks and feels realistic with a well modelled route then I will get enjoyment out of it.

So I'll take the occasional BR route and hope that we continue to see those and maybe a change of stance from DTG might cause them to look back in time occasionally, including back to steam days.

This route looks interesting and has a variety of layers so I'll definitely get £30 worth of value out of it. Also part of it is local which adds extra interest.

 

I’m no fanboy of JT and have criticised some of their commercial practices in the past - like requiring separate stock purchases to play the TSC Metropolitan, Chiltern or MML. However they have hit the spot as regards the era with BPO and WCMLoS. Even there though, I’m considering very carefully whether to spend out £33 on Crewe to Preston. There’s also a huge missed opportunity here, imagine if we could have one magnificent conjoined Birmingham to Carlisle, set in the AC loco era.

For now I will sit back, wait and see how Birmingham to Crewe actually pans out and more importantly whether DTG pull their thumbs out and sort out the core game.

 

Sorry Vern. That is understandable.

 

Well, I just bought the XC Class 220 and Rivet Games WMR / XC 170 add-on pack DLC's, just to be ready for the extra route layers on Birmingham to Crewe.... and you all know how much I dislike Rivet Games.

So yeah, I'm putting all my faith in All Aboard for this route. Here's hoping it's a great one.

 

A nice run in the 170 for me that’s a bit different is a WMR 170 stopping at Barnt Green.

 

Sorry Vern, but that's not how inflation works. It's cumulative, so the relatively small inflation rate now is on top of last year's rate, and the year's before that, and the massive rates of just a few years ago.

It's no surprise to me that the only reason we still have £30 routes is because pre-order discounts have gone.

 

H'mmm...

Anyhow this seems to have more to do with market pricing, as in seeing how much they can push before it affects sales.

Well with no pre-order discount the fairest thing I can say is that I'll watch the stream, listen to impartial feedback from the Day One buyers and make an informed decision after that. As well as seeing what state (hopefully improved) DTG have managed to get the core in by then.