Enough Is Enough!!! The Ongoing Saga!!! 3 Year Anniversary

You know, this looks quiet spammy.....

 

We have until Monday to get to 200 pages at this rate

 

I know this person is banned now, and I'm gonna be ignored, but I'll get the last laugh in either way

I guess that proves the type of person he is

Shameless. "Everyone else is wrong, except for me" mentality.

Goodbye. Fool.

 

While that guy's something, I have to ask why do we have a whole page of Silly Billie's egging the guy on and ruining the thread further exactly? Seems foolish in its own way if you ask me.

Enough on that though, anyways...

You know as meh as the Flight Simulator X era was in a lot of ways, one of the truly great things about it is the fact that it was one of the last stable sim platforms. Not in the sense it won't crash or anything like that mind you, lord knows FSX loved doing that! But in the sense that once SP2 and Acceleration are installed, bam, nothing to worry about, the underlying game never changes.

Sure, that leaves a lot of annoying issues to be sure, it also means the bugs you have are what you have. No worries about some new update completely undoing all your fixes, or introducing a million new bugs to the table. Also beneficial in the sense you could pretty well buy any add-on for FSX after around 2008 and know they'll work as it did when it released. Which certainly isn't true for 2020, lot of add-ons for that have broken over time, even payware ones. And even if they do get fixed you may be waiting weeks or months until those release.

There's so many benefits to having that concrete, unmoving platform that get ignored now, and it's kind of sad.

 

That was what I was so hopeful for with MSFS2020... And then they announced 2024 being even more always online.

 

I still have FSX SE installed over MSFS 2020, mainly so I can occasionally take the Level D 767 out for a spin. Of course, the whole thing is a bit twitchy now despite the changes DTG did to get it running better on modern hardware and OS. For starters, the file footprint is much kinder than 2020, even with a few scenery add ons thrown in. Haven’t bothered with the 2024 version, mainly because my PC is below the minimum spec and I don’t really want to faff about with down,oaring from the cloud every time I want a quick flight.

 

I like that the OP recently changed the title of this thread to include “3 Year Anniversary”

After only 2 years.

I’m guessing it’s for how long it feels like rather than actual time passed. Given enough (enough is enough?) time the title will be accurate. It’ll be like a stopped clock eventually showing the correct time. Like much of this thread, it made me laugh.

 

Well, the thread is in its 3rd year. And accuracy makes only an occasional appearance on the forum.

 

I haven’t fired up TSW5 since about February, i’ve had a busy summer and beyond that, i don’t find the prospect of running a train on it so inspiring and exciting as i once did

So today i log in to the forum, and find nothing has essentially changed. Sure TSW6 is now out, and sure DTG never seem to get anything working as expected/promised/is reasonable. And this thread continues to grow. I think I’m going to hang fire, not upgrade and save my money. This seems to be just a cash cow of getting a new release and a few routes out the door each year. Does it actually improve with age? Some might disagree but I think not

Carry on as you were

 

This forum hasn't changed, you mean. If you want to know the real state of the game, you have to fire it up yourself ;-)

 

I like how TSW is being called a cash cow when there's literally a free upgrade option that is as of now still available.

 

No, sorry I didn’t explain myself better. I mean nothing has changed with TSW itself, the same issues it seems just drag on, as they do with each annual software version. jack#9468 it is still a cash cow even if the update to V6 is (for now) free. They roll out new stuff, never fix the old, and then by the time everyone figures out that the new stuff needs fixing, they for the most part ignore that and start work on next years release. I fully expect that work is focussed on TSW7 already!

 

Because it is, it doesn’t matter if it has free upgrade or not it’s still a cashcow for not fixing any problems, releasing routes in a terrible state, ui being bugged (mastery) and finally non dealing with the core issues

 

Oh no, I know what you meant. I disagree and was just being sarcastic.

 

If Steam client tells the truth, I haven't launched it since 12 October 2024 (as the free starter pack back then). I still haven't installed TSW6 (also starter) to check what's changed, at the moment only waiting for GWE update or Tadami release to do so.

 

No cash cow would have a free upgrade option.

As the term cash cow implies, everything would cost money. Yet you can upgrade for free, albeit for a limited time.

The fact bugs and core issues carry is irrelevant - and in fact if TSW was a literal cash grab you'd be charged for every tiny fix.

 

And the fact you have to buy 10 dlcs for all layers in Riviera isn't that another form of cashgrab?

 

The core update from TSW5 to TSW6 is noting more then an update, not even an upgrade with the same old bugs and issues. It's like getting an update for the same game, just like other developers do, but keeping the same name/version.

Every route costs you money, you need layers to get some kind of busy looking rail traffic and you're getting the same rolling stock over and over again. So yeah, I see why people will call this a cash cow....

 

Objection!

the “free” upgrade doesn’t actually add anything making (since every thing is tsw 6+ stuff) it pretty worthless and it’s only limited time

also another thing there are so many free games that count as cashcows unless you going to try and argue war thunder isn’t one (which is probably one of the biggest at the moment)

 

For some routes the upgrade is a downgrade. I took the free offer for the PS5, started a run on BML to find my train derailing itself just outside Victoria. A problem which manifested in TSW4, went away in TSW5 but “engineering” reknotted the spaghetti code to bring it back in TSW6!

Anyhow in other news, SCS just announced another DLC for ETS2 this one going to be Ireland (North and South). Eagerly awaited though tempered by the fact Nordic Horizons still hasn’t got a release date plus they also have Iceland and the coach travel add ons in the oven. Well at least we know when they do release, they will be a pocket friendly price and relatively bug free. I have a £30 float standing by in my Steam Wallet - take my money already, SCS.

 

Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product =)

 

Same old moans I see. TSW6 came with new functionality ergo not a cash cow.

 

Functionality that could easily be implemented on tsw5 whitout need to move to another annual release

 

Which hasn't cost you anything

 

Until they release a sizeable patch, I have Morristown installed in TSW6 and that's it, 5 remains my main go-to until everything works to the same standard in TSW6.

 

Actually it costed performance on the good old routes and other problems which shouldn’t have happened

 

So many armchair quarterbacks who think they could code better. If this is the case why are there few competing train simulators out there? Recognize that once you have it ready make sure it is fully capable for all consoles and pcs at the same time.

 

Because the market is small, it’s just better to make a battle game than going for this small market

 

Well that’s why we pay DTG a considerable amount of money on DLC to employ competent people to do the necessary.

It might be a niche market, but so are many other titles out there.

And it’s not a charity or small business. It seems a sizeable amount of what we hand over every couple of months is being used to prop up a top heavy management and PR establishment. Not to mention diverting funds into Metro Rivals, a game very few on here actually seem to want (as opposed to a proper depiction in TSC or TSW).

 

It is a simulator. It will never be perfect. Many of the games we play from Steam do not have real life to compare against. It is easy to see imperfections when comparing real life scenarios versus what we can see. It is very difficult to fully replicate this with the budgets and time frames deployed ( and include other additional attributes like Conductor Mode, Treasure Hunt, etc). I believe we do get value for money. Is it perfect-no. Will it ever be? Unlikely due to time and financial constraints. I am a realist and enjoy what offerings are provided. Is it a bad thing to give negative feedback - of course not. We the users can have aspirations. Will they come to fruition - maybe some of the low hanging fruit and egregious errors found. It is what it is. Feel free to suggest opportunities for improvement. Don’t expect everything to get fixed as the world moves on to the next shiny object.
Respectfully

 

They just need a better planner like the way things are just makes it so there’s no time left for fixes and other stuff, they should be doing a 60/40 spilt between making and fixing routes and change over during a large wave of third parties releases

 

At the end of the day it does seem like a cash cow.
All games start off with bugs, there's no denying that. Although most developers get on top of it within months if not weeks. Tsw on the other hand has had the same problems for several years now. With the price of dlc going up and up and the routes becoming shorter and more repetitive, it seems to me like they are Just in it for the money nowa days.
A route gets released, they post a general feedback thread on the forum, people that payed for the route pay to be beta testers for a week, some bugs are fixed, then it's move on to the next release. Meanwhile the route previously released is abandoned, with no hope of low priority bugs being fixed.

Routes are rushed out with multiple problems that's left for the community to point out. You can't blame it on beta testing, there's a couple of dozen community members put their names down to be voluntary beta testers months ago. Has dtg reached out to any of them?

Why should they when there's so many that pay to be in the testing programme.

 

Wise words.

I bought the AAB route after saying I wouldn't but, TBH, while it's not as bad as the reports indicated (though there is much room for improvement), it's not setting me on fire and after a couple of runs in each direction very much in danger of going the same way as all the similar routes. Not really a £30 experience. As of now I'm starting to question whether I actually want to drop what will probably be £33 on the JT route and anything else on the roadmap can wait for a sale. (Or not at all). TSW is starting to burn out, both as a host platform (which it seems the developer is becoming less and less interested in) and some original, "Good god I must have that", uniquely new content.

All I can say, is for god's sake SCS hurry up and roll out your new map and coach DLC's for ETS2.

 

Up until recently I bought pretty much every dlc or next iteration on release. The rise in cost of dlc was not a problem nor was the bugs and stutter. But with these short bus stop routes lately. It's getting a bit boring. I start a route and get bored within minutes and find myself going back to routes like NTP, tvl, bml etc and spending hours playing.

It's a shame sos and pf have been left in the sorry state they are in

I probably will pick up a few new routes like Birmingham to Crewe and the Riviera but only with a discount. JT's new route will probably be a day one purchase though.

Not played ats or ets for a while. Will definitely pick up new dlc though.

 

Bought it out of curiosity but refunded as too similar experience to others like Manc Airport for me to justify £30. Good level of detail though, which should be the standard for all routes, so will definitely pick up again at a later date in a Steam sale.

 

It does cost you money, because the new stuff is implemented in the new routes, not in the old routes.

 

You bought the old routes for what they were, not for the potential for later added features. But if you did the latter, that’s on you, not DTG.

 

I replied on the statement about getting something without costs. You don't get anything for free, you have to purchase a route to get some new features.

 

Of course commercial cash cows give you little treats and reductions to tempt you to spend more money, it’s part of the commercial strategy to sell more in the long run. Everyone does it, most people see it as buttering up the customer to buy more, if you don’t then it just shows it’s worked!

 

Not a problem if characters like him don’t get quarrelsome in the first place. I’m entitled to laugh at people squabbling over forum fights if I want to, it’s called enjoying free speech.
I know the sort criticises and then acts holier than thou.

 

Hmmm how polite all of a sudden!
Just remember if I would like to open my popcorn and enjoy reading people squabbling over the state of the game I will do and it’s nobodies business in this nation of free speech, have a good day.
Dear mods this is not quarrelsome, rather being reprimanded for being so in the first place was quarrelsome. Fairness and balance please.

 

Not really, you’re buying individual products. The layers are a bonus for those who own multiple add-ons, they expand the experience of a route and the game. This part isn’t a cash grab at all.

Why should someone who buys Riviera only get access to all layers when others have paid and built up their collections over time?

 

This is nonsense. It has nothing to do with your limited right to freedom of speech/expression, which does not protect you on this forum anyway.

 

At a certain point layers do become essential to enjoy a route. Munich to Augsburg without any layers is among the worst route in the game, but it's massively improved with layers added. If a route is missing key service types without any extra layers, then those layers are essential for the route. In the case of the Riviera line I wouldn't consider layers essential as the 150 and 802 cover the majority of traffic anyway. And some of the layers I think actively downgrade the route, like the Night Riviera layer that is so wildly unprototypical I'd rather it not be there at all (or have it use the 802, which has happened in real life).

WCML South is a route that requires layers, since the Class 390 is an essential purchase to have anything resembling a realistic WCML. Granted, WCML South still needs a large handful of different mods to turn it into an acceptable route regardless of the 390 being there or not. There aren't many routes in TSW where layers really aren't needed. SEHS has most of the trains you'd want, bar the 377/5 and different variants of the 375. GWE also has most of the trains you'd want for that era, although a Class 180 could have been nice. There are more examples, but I won't list them all.

 

MAC is another one where layers really make the route.

 

They're not needed for a route to function though.

Although I will say that I find myself getting all layers of a route, purely to make it more enjoyable.

 

Redacted.

 

I wasn't saying whether they're essential or not though. That's down to individual opinion and I do agree with you, they can make or break a route.

The post I was replying to was calling layers a cash grab, which isn't true. You buy a DLC, the content from that DLC will layer into other DLC which is a good way to encourage people to purchase DLC and give content longevity. Anyone that expects all DLC layers for free when others have paid for them are of an entitled mindset, that's what I was getting at. I've seen people asking for such on Discord over the years.

 

I think that depends on where you find enjoyment.

 

Thought I would add my two cents to this...as someone who was waiting for the new timetable for Fife Circle, I was extremely fed up with the result. There are huge gaps in the timetable..and the route feels as sparse as it was before. What? Why? How? It is a huge oversight and slack work once again from DTG