Wcml Preston To Crewe Discussion

If they won't do an 85 or 81 I suspect an APT would be nigh on impossible. Also the APT was finished iirc when the routes are set.

 

Preston to Crewe

Golborne to Winwick

Latchford to Fiddlers Ferry

Springs Branch to Bickershaw

Preston to Deepdale.

Written version!!

 

That is a lot of Branch Line on top of an already long route. Really looking forward to it!

 

The JT LMR routes are set in 1986. The APTs continued to run in passenger service certainly until August 1985 mostly providing cover for the traditional WCML fleet and running additional relief services when required. I've even read reports of it in passenger service up to the end of that year. During 1986 the BR research team used some shorter APT consists for the purpose of a test bed for the Intercity 225 project so they continued to be a familiar sight working test trains on the WCML mostly between Preston and Carlisle thoughout 1986.

So it wouldn't be much of a stretch of the imagination to have an APT DLC for the 1986-based sections of the route. In terms of official passenger duties it misses the era in which the routes are set by 4 months. In terms of it running at all, it was part of the WCML scene in 1986.

 

I would buy it, just dont see it happening.

 

I would rather we saw something like a class 25 and a 108 before the APT, but I would probably buy it.

 

Regarding a 56, they probably only handled a couple of MGRs a day from Healey Mills to Fiddlers Ferry and not a lot of miles run on the proposed route. There was also the daily Cawoods containerised coal service from Blythe to Ellesmere Port but not sure if these were running in 86 and I've seen no mention of including the appropriate wagons. But again, not a lot of route miles.

 

I had originally written out a post then realised we were talking about the same diagrams That said, there is a decent potential for them just doing the tail end of it either picking up at Newton (which is rather unrealistic to do) or just working between Latchford and FFPS. The thing with a 56 would be its potential on other routes, mainly NTP, TVL and MML (though they'd need to fudge the calendar for that one).

As much as I'd love to see the APT, I think a 25, 108, 56 or Roarer would be most welcome first as they would offer a lot more to this and other routes.

 

I'd love to see a 56 on NTP but I seem to recall it was stated a while ago that NTP was maxxed out which is why the 31 didn't get services on NTP. It was suggested that the 31 was actually originally for NTP as it's a BR Blue, non-refurbished variety rather than a Railfreight refurb one more likely on TVL in 89.

 

I would expect there to be some Fiddlers Ferry MGRs from Silverdale and Point of Ayr collieries. Not everything came from Bickershaw and Parkside.

 

Also Whitehaven I think.

 

Haig did supply Fiddlers Ferry after the Workington Steel Works closure in about 80' until the Miners Strike and eventual closure, though I think it was more token than any actual real supply by then anyway.

 

Wouldn’t be surprised to see either of these as a loco dlc in the future, especially the 56

 

Easily my most anticipated route in TSW history. Really hoping to hear more from JT soon with a new blog and details.

 

Looking at Crewe Depot's allocation for 1986 as a reference for what locos would make this realistic.
Class 25 - 42
Class 47 - 119
Class 85 - 37
The latter is probably the most likely if JT are doing a new loco. The 25s were starting to be withdrawn, 2 different body types and 3 different sub-classes might make it difficult to choose the best version to make.

At the time all the 56s were based in the East Midlands/South Yorkshire/South Wales/Bristol areas so would be infrequent visitors to the WCML.

 

56s weren't signed by many Crews in the North West if any until the early 90s. The constant call for them is maybe down to the fact that they run now still. The reality is the 25 is the most needed now for the JT routes. Along with another 1st Gen DMU and Mk3 Sleepers. Don't get me started on Wagons.....

 

My hope is one day we get a GWML project from JT, preferably Bristol TM to Reading + Westbury via melksham and Oxford via didcot branches.

Set it in 88 and you’ve got a perfect playing ground for the 50s, valenta 43s, 56s and 117. With a great mix of IC, IC swallow, Br Blue, railfreight grey, and NSE.

But I’m dreaming here

 

Anyone else think this is a 2026 release.

 

Pretty much, yes. If it was imminent we would probably see JT ramping up their own publicity. And they’re probably not going to want to go up against the Xmas sales (Steam at least) which will start in 6 or 7 weeks and run through to the New Year. So I’m guessing maybe late January or even February at the earliest.

 

I would fathom a guess its due to them having to juggle multiple projects such as the pacer and getting qa done on that. And also maybe they have started work on their next project after crewe route. Who knows.

 

I'm ok with a wait. Time to get it right and fix the class 86 as well.

 

Will the route be set in 1986

 

I'll preface this by saying this is my opinion but I feel like the APT has a better chance of appearing in TSW than the 81-85. We have a pretty great model already in TSC which could be ported over to TSW (as done with the 378) so the hard part would probably be to sort out the physics. I think the APT would sell much better compared to an 81-85 as it would be seen as a completely new train as opposed to something that looks the same to what already exists in game. I know that sounds absurd (lol) but I remember seeing on FB quite a few comments complaining that the 86 was essentially the same loco as the 87.

 

I would be happy with both, who knows what the devs will conjure up!

 

Surely impossible to get anything remotely close to authentic APT sounds though.

 

What sounds were the TSC version using

 

The Class 56 should’ve been brought into the game a long time ago. Instead we’re seeing rehashed 37s 47s and an upcoming 20. A Class 60 is also a much needed freight loco. A lot of ‘new’ stuff is just a gimmick in my eyes. Yes the ‘new’ locos maybe be different variants but they look the same, sound the same and the differences by look are minimal

 

37 is sub par I would say. No 37/4 or /0 variant either. One of the most popular types of UK diesel ever and barely been scratched....

 

It was even worse when it first appeared on TVL. Sounded nothing like a 37 and had a ghastly looping effect too.

But yes it needs a bit of TLC, a BR Blue version, a steam heat version and as you say a 37/4 ETH version. One can only hope, if JT did turn their attention to North Wales Coast in the mid to late 80’s a 37/4 would be top priority for the (then) Regional Railways 4 or 5 coach loco hauled sets that worked many of the services.

On a subsidiary note, we also need a BR Blue 31/4.

 

Yes, just like the other 2 JT routes

 

Related to routes like northern trans pennine, a cl.25 would fill a huge gap. Could be used on tvl, and the other jt routes. Technically even on peak forest. Its on my "want that as next loco" wish list for many years.

 

I do wonder how we have got to a point where the clamouring for a Voyager (worst UK train ever) is far more than for a 37. Despite many newer or younger enthusiasts professing a following for 37s, that is evidenced on social media when they work test trains etc. The best years of them are long gone (Ravenscraig Ore, South Wales Coal, West Highland Passenger) but still devs continue to trot out one handled carts of various descriptions with all the spin and exclamation marks going. I am pretty certain a 37 on a par with the TSC AP ones would sell well and as can be quickly found the loco has a use on nearly all UK DLC from all eras....

 

Yes indeed, loads on heritage lines also for sounds and measuring etc.

 

I couldn’t agree more. The TSC AP class 37 is absolutely brilliant. The sounds and exhaust dynamics are tempting me back to PC just to drive it!. I can’t face the TVL version anymore as it’s just so underwhelming.

I’m also starting to think there are other reasons at play as to why we haven’t seen the class 56, Deltic and Valenta HST!.

 

Ahhhhh, I love seeing these pictures of that era, when trains WERE trains, proper trains

 

Same, these modern 1-piece units do nothing for me I'm afraid, a train consists of loco and carriages in my eyes, modern units are souless, same with modern cars, all designed by the same computer no character or personality, yes i understand why there like this it just feels like we lost something along the way.

 

I would rather see locos suitable for the route.

A class 60 would be nice but not for this route.

 

If we keep going down this road of “it’s not suitable for the route” we will never see the locos we want in the game. If it needs to be a ‘Diesel Legends/Railtour’ type dlc then so be it. How many more iterations of TSW do we realistically have to wait for a Hoover or Grid.

 

Would you really want to see a class 50 on a 1986 iteration of the WCML?

I would love to see one but let's have a suitable route to go with it

 

I can't remember if 37 was included in DLOGW, but perhaps the improvements Liam is doing for GWE remaster DLOGW will filter into the other routes that use it (and the other blue stuff)?

 

No, no. That’s not what I’m saying at all. I don’t layer in the class 40 on Preston-Carlisle for instance as I don’t find it realistic.

I just feel there needs to be more of a push for stand alone locos and enhancement packs if we are never going to get a route to go with it.

 

56s and 50s could run on most modern routes. If you go back to BR days more correct use of traction is appreciated by many. The layers on West Cornwall were pretty poor. 40s to Penzance in 1992 just wouldn't have happened period.

 

Just an obsession with all things clinical and modern. The Valenta HST again would be a hit but instead we are lumped with the MTU and VP185 versions.

 

Ah okay fair enough. I also don't like seeing the class 40 on the WCML route. It would be nice to have an updated NTP to run it on.

 

Do they have a route diagram yet showing all the stops along the route?


I’ve looked up the route online and it says a train from Preston to Crewe will stop or pass through:

Preston, Leyland, Euxton Balshaw Lane, Wigan Northwestern, Warrington Bank Quay, Acton Bridge, Hartford, Winsford, and Crewe

 

Inter City trains tended to be Wigan NW and Warrington BQ only and sometimes one or the other, or non stop from Crewe to Preston and vv. Maybe a very few at Hartford and Winsford but they were generally served by the hourly Crewe to Liverpool stoppers. Not sure how they will be represented as at the time fairly certain still worked by Class 304 units. I don’t think Euxton Balshaw Lane existed then and Leyland was served by trains to and from Manchester.

 

Good point Vern RE the Crewe Liverpool stopping service. I reckon the 101 will be seen on these unless someone has something seriously good up their sleeve to layer in at at later date....

 

Plus Earlstown and Newton-le-Willows: these are on the Liverpool to Manchester line that crosses at right-angles, but there's a couple of chords that allow trains to join this line from either direction. You can see the latter station in the latest article, so this does appear to have been included.

 

The Class101 would be a fairly poor substitute TBH, partly because in reality BR at the time would not have dreamed of running DMU's on a service group entirely under the wires and because the 101's were not that common certainly north of Crewe. A 108 or 104 would be more likely. Another possibility, not sure if it happened IRL, would be loco hauling 3 or 4 coaches with a Class 81 or 85 (would need to use an 86 in game).

 

Personally, I wouldn't be opposed to an AI only 304 model being included, maybe with a very basic cab that's inaccessible and not having the full suspension physics and a more paired down soundset. I can't really think of anything we currently have that would work well as a substitute otherwise? The trouble is they were quite prominent south of Weaver Jc on that stretch of the WCML, with the odd 310 terminating at Crewe as well.

It also opens up the possibility of a future fully featured 304 further down the line as an addon, which could be quite at home on several other routes as a 'retro' timetable - the modern Manchester routes, & even the Cross city line during the brief period when 323s were having teething issues.