Hi Folks. Now yesterday I noticed a video on YT about TSW6 collapsing. This got me worried straight away so didn’t watch. But it did get me thinking about what would happen if TSW did fade into obscurity. What are the community feelings about the game or franchise, is at a tipping point of no return?, and is it really that bad. If so how could we the community help matters or even support a franchise I’m sure many love using, yet it would be fair to say if DTG are facing some issues with TSW6 the odd grumble from individual members will be heard and rightly so in some cases. But does it help matters, so again how would the community go about supporting a company and franchise we love so much. Adding my personal opinion on if TSW did fail is a bad news. For me TSW offers what it has. If all that was taken away then I wouldn’t be happy at all. So regardless of my own circumstances or feelings towards DTG I’ll be putting that to one side. I see adding to a situation where I’d like something fixed isn’t going to happen any time soon, obviously nothing would be fixed if anything bad should happen to DTG either. So I’ll be leaving this thread open for all to discuss the question, What would you do if TSW was failing, what could we do as individuals or a community supporting in order to make the overall situation less worse than what it may appear like to some. I didn’t watch the video so I wouldn’t be aware of what’s being said in wider context. But seeing something like that did and has made me think even worry to point I’m post this thread topic. I know how the community feels or a small majority yet I know how much bad news can spread like wild fire over positive news. Especially if there’s no good news for the hungry media community looking for content to provide. Good news or bad news it doesn’t matter as long as there producing video content. So personally I’m very dubious about what I watch and read. Just like the news papers. However I must add that with such a thread topic is an open invitation to those not so understanding and therefore kindly asking them to refrain from commenting. There are many thread available to put DTG down. Today this thread is about finding out what are the key areas to most. Not a shouting contest but one of real discussion looking at this from a consumer or a user perspective. For if DTG is in a pickle right now then like anything knowing key areas of improvement to again either from the customer or user perspective is vital for any business to see the bigger picture. I must emphasise that only critical areas are to be the primary focus of discussion. Because could it be said DTG has made a big plunder, a seed that was planted years ago and this is what that seed has proved DTG. Hence has DTG started to see things can’t carry on like this, and how to openly express or admit this. I will also add with any company with large investors want a return and is this a factor to why products are being pushed out so fast. A scenario like what’s happened in the past with many great game developers that get bought out then all the fun ideas for games are removed with revenue taking over a small independent developer resulting in poor quality gameplay or experience. This must be added because the staff at DTG must have targets. Are they set to high for the teams to have the time necessary to release their products 110 percent. It’s not always the faces we see pulling the strings. If the franchise is facing a rocky road ahead then what can the community do to support the staff and teams at DTG that have been working hard the last few months. I don’t want this franchise to be in such a situation if what is rumoured happens to be the case. To find out the facts even if DTG has made poor decisions in the past leading to now or later on down the line. No one ever likes owning up to their mistakes, yet in business there must be accountability is more important than rumours. On the face of it all would mean the relationship between DTG and its fans will be under strain, it won’t help matters tho. I say if we are all human then let’s try and show some empathy to what the teams must be facing. Like any human that’s facing difficulties then support is vital together so the franchise can be better than be before. It’s not about the fat cats running the business or pulling the strings. Just the faces and names we see I feel need the support to work through what ever issues or situations they face right now. Anyway I thank those for taking the time to read and let’s see if this thread can avoid the blaming game to move forward by learning from any mistakes and put a stop to it sooner than later. I personally wouldn’t like to see DTG or the TSW franchise collapse (Not my term) would you?. Rigsby. ✌.
I don't think TSW is going anywhere myself. Especially not leaving consoles. Train Sim World is as I understand it doing quite well sales wise, there are no shortage of third party developers coming on board and doubtless there is already (even if just whiteboard) core/other DLC being planned or already underway for TSW7 or whatever the next version of our game is called. iirc ATS said in their MAC preview it takes roughly 2 years to go from whiteboard to market on a route DLC. i think we may more realistically be headed to a firm line in the sand where the 8th gen consoles, PS4 and Xbox1/1S/1X, will need to be dropped. Not because they'll be holding anything back in a nebulous way but rather there just won't be any new DLC available - the last 2 DLC have been 9th gen/PC only and the last few routes iirc have had reduced 8th gen Timetables. tl;dr - TSW isn't going anywhere, 8th gen may have no new content however.
Well the game certainly seems to be carrying a great deal of tech debt that has only got worse with TSW6. In the meantime focus seems to have shifted to Metro Rivals. The assumption has to be, if MR is remotely successful they will build on that for a new UE5 train game. For all we know that could already be in development alongside MR. So does that mean the writing on the wall for TSW6? Well whatever happens let’s hope TSW6 gets a decent coup de grace to stabilise the code before or if it joins the other abandoned or dormant titles.
Unless DTG bother to fix the texture issues on consoles then as far as I'm concerned TSW already disappeared, the last playable version of the game was TSW4 so that is where I now spend my time. I haven't bought TSW6, I did grab the free version and quickly earned the trophies, but as I own 100+ DLC from before DTG smeared virtual vaseline across my TV I don't need to spend another penny. It is very unlikely that DTG will disappear, but if they do then it will be their own doing and I shan't be shedding any tears.
First off, I know the exact video you're talking about because I watched it. And all due respect it's kind of clickbait, yes the game has issues, but then as noted a million times here and elsewhere this is hardly new, one of the comments mentions this. Honestly I do think the end is near for TSW, but I think it's more so due to as Vern mentions the development of Metro Rival's and the presumed development of the UE5 train sim. The fact that DTG's releases are broken has always been a issue, it's clearly not a existential threat on its own. That all being said, if TSW did die I'd feel similar to how I felt Microsoft Flight or Flight Sim World died. Sucks. but hardly saddening when it's their own damn fault they released those projects in such under-cooked states in the first place. It shouldn't be on the players to be a welfare program for disabled and elderly game studios, lord knows if it was we'd be bankrupt right now given so many game companies have issues. Frankly as much as people treat it as a entirely bad thing long term DTG being out of the picture could actually be a godsend for other companies. Companies like A2A were able to do genuinely amazing developments in the flight sim space even on a "outdated" flight sim. While other sims like Aerofly & X-Plane really were able spread their reach to a degree they almost certainly wouldn't have if we kept getting bi-annual MSFS releases constantly. Train sim will be fine without DTG the day that comes, and to be blunt if the future isn't TSW even under DTG then honestly I'd probably rather explore other train sims from different companies anyways.
And we also come back to the other problem TSW has… I already have more than enough content to keep me occupied for years to come. The game is saturated and I really don’t need another 60km DB Red or 30 mile modern UK electric route. So at some point a radical change is due, either in the gameplay (and that doesn’t mean Metro Rivals arcade rubbish) or content that is refreshing and new.
It’s not collapsing…. That’s just silliness. TSW is DTG’s Golden Egg. This type of stuff comes up once every couple years lol.
I'll play it and 'enjoy' playing it while I can. If it all ends then so be it. Move on to something else. It's only one of many games that I play.
I have no doubt there will be TSW on unreal 5,and hopefully will be a lot better then the one I'm playing at the moment, "Don't be afraid of moving forward be afraid of standing still"
And hopefully all the contents are ported over whitout need to rebuy all again, if this happens i'm out, not going to spend another 1000+ euros for all dlcs
First: I do think TSW 6 is not in a good shape. Unfortunately, for me personally, it has lost a lot of fun for me and I haven't bought a route since Niddertal. A game is not fun, if it is the cause of a lot of frustration. But, I don't think it will vanish anytime soon. Just look at the number of developers who joined the game. The content is still expanding and there is a lot on the roadmap for at least a year and beyond. And if you look at TSC, which is still alive, TSW has a lot of years with new content to come. I really don't think they will change the engine but I think UE4 has some life in it. Though DTG has a trust issue, at least for me, they really really with cherry on top have to adress the core issues. This could restore some trust of a lot of players.
TSW as we know it won't go anywhere, but it can't last forever. Eventually, years from now, something will come to replace it, but all that means is no more updates. The TSW we currently have: warts, bugs and all, won't go anywhere. I like to think of it like TSW2020. Compared to the newest iteration it is not as good but we can still play it if we want to. Similarly, when something comes to replace TSW, we will still have TSW (albeit without the hope of bugfixes). The same can be said for Microsoft Train Simulator (although I hear that it's a little harder to access?) Now that's not to say that I want TSW to die. I don't. But the announcement of Metro Rivals caused me to think a bit, and it has certainly made it easier for me to accept TSW's demise when it happens.
First of all I would advise to watch the vid, then atleast you know what he is thinking about TSW and why. The vid is not as dramatic as you maybe think and collapsing is a big word too, but with the problems going on, it can result in less sales if they don't fix it. No game will last forever, so some day, TSW as we know will come to end. Maybe they will release another train simulator, made with UE5, we will see. Also Xbox is changing, so we have to see how this being handled by developers in general and DTG. I also see people commenting about having to rebuy stuff if there will be a new train sim made in UE5. Well, I don't expect they're gonna remake all excisting routes in UE5, maybe if we're lucky a few will be ported over, but I don't expect this too. It will even be better when they don't, so issues aren't ported over too. You can always playing excisting routes in the TSW versions as we know now and new routes in a new game. And even when they quit making train sim games, there is still a lot of content you still can play. It will then also give room for other developers to bring train simulators. Trainz is already available on Xbox, there is a chance it will also come to Playstation.
This isn't the first "end of TS*" speculation that has existed and won't be the last. There is often this feeling of annoyance and despair on the forums when elsewhere people presumably are just enjoying the sim. I would want a UE5 version of TSW to start afresh. I'll still be able to play the current version and developers can still make DLC for it, whether they will though. I'll worry about TSW "collapsing" when it happens, not because of a soap opera-esq drama!
I don't believe TSW will simply "disappear". What I do believe is that somewhere in the future DTG will decide that TSW doesn't generate enough revenue anymore and will silently stop development of TSW and updates will get less and less until it will be just stagnant and the product will be "as is" without any hope of fixes/updates. This is what pretty much happend with TSC, TSW appeared and TSC was "forgotten" about by DTG. Big difference is that TSC has a big 3rd party content scene which still produces quality content very regularly. Without this active 3rd party scene TSC would've died and forgotten many years ago. However TSW has no such 3rd party scene and doesn't look like there ever will be one. So when DTG will "forget" all about TSW the game will completely die and be forgotten by the players soon after.
I think something is going on that we do not know about, DTG are not building the amount of DLC for TSW they used to, with more and more content being produced by third parties, so what are all the staff doing. My understanding of metro rivals is it will be a stand alone game play based thing, not serious simulation, I doubt if I will be buying it. As it wont appeal to the serious simmers, I think DTG must be doing something else as well, but what?
While I enjoy playing with virtual trains, TSW is actually a very small part of my everyday routine. If I can snatch a half hour or even an hour or two here and there, it's a nice way to relax until the wife calls me to my next assignment. I'd miss it, just as I'd miss the back and forth on the forum. I'd probably switch to one of the other nascent train sims in the hope that one of them matures into something comparable to TSW. Anyway, as Vern pointed out, I have enough content to follow me into that great " railway in the sky " if necessary.
It's hard to say what dtg is doing. It's definitely what's convenient for them. During a roadmap 3-4 months ago, they stated there were no plans for UE5 (and not just in the sense of a port of the current TSW, but absolutely). A few months later (in Summer), here's MR developed with UE5 (which they were blown away by with Lumen and Nanite), which (according to them) will be the basis for the next simulator. Most likely, the new simulator could have been in development for quite some time now.
Being practical, if TSW disappeared there are alternatives... Rail Sim wise: TSC - again enough purchased content to probably keep me going until I shuffle off the mortal coil. SimRail - plenty to do here. Derail Valley - plenty to do here. Railroader - only scratched the surface, need to do far more. Then all the standalone subway style sims appearing and don't forget Trans Siberian where again I haven't begun to explore all it has to offer. Run 8 - endless emergent gameplay. Transport Fever. Zusi 3. None Rail Sim. Where to begin! Snowrunner. Roadcraft. ETS2. ATS. Farming Sim 25. Fallout 4 (need to do another playthrough). Also New Vegas and FO3 but a bit dated and flakey on modern hardware/OS. Mass Effect Trilogy. Skyrim. The Bus. Arma 3. Deus Ex HR and MD. Various Rally/Driving games. Planet Coaster. Sniper Elite 4. X3 (various), Rebirth and X4. So yes if TSW was to vanish and DTG folded, there is plenty else to keep me occupied and in any event TSW (and TSC) at the point of their collapse is still preserved in my Steam library.
Lumen and possibly Nanite too will save them a lot of time. With Lumen they can skip the baked light part, most likely also making tunnels will become easier. That's the reason why a lot of developers switching over, even the ones having their own engine.
I can't believe "the sky is falling" comments I keep seeing on this board. I really don't care what they say. TSW is my favorite game. Period. I've been with the game since it first appeared on PS4 and haven't missed a year since. I think it's entrenched itself in the video game universe because of its realism (as much as you can do with a video game) and the amount of DLC it has available which enable players to try out different phases of railroading. (I especially enjoyed the introduction of steam locos. I'm sorry that that's pretty much is behind us, but I still love the game anyway.) I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way about the game as a whole.
Actually, I like TSW too, and it's not as bad as they say on the forums (though forums don't represent everyone...). It's my favorite hobby. However, time passes and technology improves. There's nothing to complain about if the program improves. And TSW won't be shut down overnight.
If anything TSW is growing. Not going backwards. YES it has its flaws and it’s bugs etc. It’s not a perfect game BUT TSW is still going pretty strong. Just look at all the Third Party Developers that are joining and creating content for this game. It’s way bigger than when we were at TSW3. The amount of DLC that’s being made for this game is growing fast. And it seems to be selling pretty good too. If TSW was truly failing I think all these third party devs would be jumping ship and working on other stuff instead and rightly so because who would want to bother wasting time on a dying game ??. This is not the case for TSW. It seems more teams are keen on joining and helping grow TSW. I sometimes wonder if people who make videos and posts about how TSW is failing or collapsing is because they want to see it fail deep down… I really don’t see this happening anytime soon.
Well, Skyhook seem to be jumping ship and only bothering with the cargo packs really. No routes since tsw3 or locos since 4, and even that was based off an already existing model (also to be fair to them they are reworking a 20)
As with anything, TSW won't last forever. That's just a fact, everything dies at some point. But I don't see TSW's life coming to an end any time soon.
Do you really think the writing is on the wall regarding TSW's demise? TSW is in trouble I think, DTG has bitten off more than it can chew and they need to churn out ever more not completely finished DLC to make ends meet. Business insiders probably know better, following employee hire and release news, higher echelon staff changes, stock market movements and such. When were the pink cats ears headphones last spotted again? But with any business, they are in business until 23:59:59, gladly taking your money, before closing down at 00:00:00 the next day without advance warning.
Rivet also seems to have kind of just became a outsource house for DTG, no routes from them solely in ages, and the loco packs are just alterations of existing stuff. TSG does lots of outsource work too, and has also made it clear many times they don't make much off TSW. For those reasons I'd expect them to make the jump to UE5 ASAP, I suspect that outsource work is probably half the reason they can afford to do this.
There's not much else out there for consoles. Still seems to be selling well. You don't do so many releases a year for a game that's "failing." I think it's just doomers hoping to scare DTG into doing something they want. There are relatively minor bugs and there are a minority of people unhappy with the bulk of for the focus of content release (Steam, US freight, etc) However, if you keep the majority of players buying new stuff it can't really be called a "failure."
If DTG can't fix the blurry texture issue on consoles, console owners won't buy the new content. I'm already very skeptical about the new DLC.
I've seen some images of blurry textures. It's unacceptable to sell similar products. I'm on PC and don't have this issue. I don't know if it's a fatal flaw in the current TSW and that's why they're developing a new program in UE 5 as a solution. But that's just my guess.
It's ironic that we're talking about TSW "disappearing" when all most of us want is for DTG themselves to be more transparent.
UE5 will not magically make an incompetent developer competent. That is why you see so much UE5 based game slop, every game looks the same and plays the same and has the same issues. Developers go for the "easy" route and completely rely and limit themselves by the ready made tools for UE5. UE5 will not magically solve all the issues when they shove it "as is" into TSW. Developers used to make their own engines or "mold" and existing engine in such a way that it performed very well in what it needed to do for that specific game. That way older games were way more efficient en ran much better on even low tier hardware.
I totally agree with your statement. There are to many bad performing UE5 titles out there. Also, Lumen will use quite some computing power, what can be seen from the low resolutions those games run on console. But not have to do baked lighting saves time for developers. But UE5 is not an out of the box good working engine, you really need to tweak and optimize things and this is what a lot of developers forget or not upto. I think Mafia is one of the UE5 titles doing quite well, even on console, but most of the UE5 titles are garbage when it comes to look and performance.
TSW6 already runs poorly and quite choppy under UE4. So, if DTG optimizes a potential new TSW for UE5 in the same way as before - that is, barely or not at all - I'm quite skeptical about the future and doubt we'll end up with a smooth gaming experience. Especially since UE5 isn't exactly known for its performance. But at least I played Mafia Old Country on the PS5 and I actually liked the experience quite good. I didn't notice any difference in FPS between "Performance" and "Quality" modes, so I played in Quality mode.
Flaw in TSW... or flaw in consoles if consoles are having the issue? There is a point at which you demand too much performance out of consoles and that's not seen by developers because they are on PC. So who is going to be the one to stand up and demand less game content to make it run better on consoles?
Consoles are no longer the benchmark for everything. And they will be less and less so. New Xbox, Cloud, handheld...
The consoles are the same as they were when TSW ran perfectly well. TSW itself has had some extra features added but the biggest culprit is the content getting too complex, and with the newest crop of third party devs making modern UK content there’s a tendency to go way overboard with detail. Those are the routes that don’t work. It’s a developer issue. There are some players on high spec PCs but the vast majority of players are not and the game and its content should be developed for all to enjoy not just the elite few. Don’t expect these PC people to change what they put in their routes though, just expect never to have it working on your console. Don’t give them any of your cash. Stick to DTG content and any third party devs who do exercise constraint and develop for everyone.
