Wcml Preston To Crewe Discussion

The problem with an AI-only train is that takes away a number of playable services, and it means that a few of the stations would never be served by the player. I'd rather have the 101 on these than nothing at all, although it would be cool to see the 304.

 

Think I would prefer an 86 on Load 4, though of course it would need to be allocated a through platform at Crewe to run round, rather than in one of the bays.

 

The other issue is most of the services covered by the 304s would be very short and incomplete and without a suitable place for a driver swap, such as Weaver Jc - Crewe or just beyond Crewe in the case of the Manchester services. Hence the suggestion of AI only 304s for the time being.

I wonder if there were any all shacks services from Preston - Crewe or beyond? Or perhaps if there's any slack in the timetable some artistic licence could be made with a short 86 set as per Vern's suggestion? Just an idea on making these stations playable in the timetable.

 

Such a stopper could also call at Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows. But I don't know if anything like that ever existed.

 

Agree it's a poor sub but the lack of early EMUs (in TSW there are zero modernisation plan EMUs) means it's a start from scratch project. Which means 25 years of work and 10 years of QA to produce something.....

 

They did but not frequently. Earlestown and Newton Le willows users changed at Bank Quay mainly for WCML trunk services.

 

I've said this a couple of times before, but this route really should come with the branch to Lime Street, as you'd have a full run for the 304. With only Preston to Crewe, the 304 could feature but doesn't run enough mileage to justify making it.

 

Interesting that they even had Carlisle on the blind.

 

The most sensible rat to make would be the 25/3.

 

Yeh but you have to consider not just what stock was there at that time, but how many diagrams said loco has, length of route, in the end there always going to go for the most common locos that have the most routes, as much as i would love to see all the locos and stock that used to, say pass through Preston in the 80s (spent alot of my childhood there with my dad) its not really feesable, as a portion of your audience will spend maybe 5mins in any given station setting up there loco and then leaving, so unless spotting said stock or loco a lot along any given route, is it really worth a developers time unless there target audience is spotting at a given station.

 

We could too of course have the class 25/9 which were based at Carlisle for engineers trains if I recall. They were all based on the 25/3 I believe.

 

I believe this was possibly the only time a 304 made it to Carlisle despite the inclusion of Carlisle on the blinds! IIRC it was due to disruption during a storm on that section of the WCML.

 

As regards the Class 25's, IMHO one of the variants with the high centre cab window (mainly 25/2) rather than 25/3 as the latter were not fitted with steam heating so were rare on passenger workings. If we ever got a period North and West or Cambrian Line even something Scottish, the 25/2's would be doing the passenger haulage (well Cambrian, summer Saturdays, before the 37's took over).

 

Caledonian railway

 

What stations does this route serve

 

From what we know:
Crewe
Winsford
Hartford
Acton Bridge
Warrington Bank Quay
Earlestown (Highly likely but not officially confirmed)
Newton-le-Willows
Wigan North Western
Wigan (Wallgate) (Not sure how many playable services will call there, but next to North Western)
Leyland
Preston

Euxton Balshaw lane was closed during the period the route is set but would open in 1997

 

JT should cover the entire route after this releases do Glasgow/Edinburgh to Carlisle and Crewe to Milton Keynes.

 

They already ruled out doing Carlisle to Glasgow

 

Personally I would like to see them create a more diesel loco hauled centric route next.

 

North Wales Coast, as many of us have dropped broad hints in the direction of JT. Or something curved ball like the N&W up from Newport to Shrewsbury. (Or Hereford to Crewe but around Abergavenny is probably the most scenic part).

 

The way I see it there’s a few options for JT:

North Wales Coast Line: A very popular suggestion in both BR and modern era. Would strengthen the network they’re building around the WCML.

Great Western Main line: A sharp departure from their previous WCML stuff, but not at all out of the possibility given their recent attention to Cardiff. To me this would be better set in 1988/89 rather than their standard 1986 however.

ECML: Less likely in my opinion, but if it were to happen it would probably be YRK-NCL in late 70s like the TSC route. Deltics are of course a very common suggestion.

Honourable mentions: Settle-Carlisle, Cumbrian Coast, Carlisle-Newcastle
(These are suggestions I’ve seen gain traction, but these routes don’t have very strong timetables. Settle-Carlisle was especially quiet in the 80s when there wasn’t any WCML diversions.)

 

Yeah Tom from JT said they'd stay away from Settle-Carlisle for that reason on one of his streams a while ago, he just reiterated how much busier and better the timetable was in the steam era.

 

A famous working from 1990! Worked a relief service from Crewe to Carlisle and back again.

I remember them working between Crewe and Preston on relief services, I even travelled on one, but I can't remember them in regular timetabled service. 304 would be a wonderful addition to TSW, but I won't hold my breath.

 

https://www.branchline.uk/psul/1986-7.pdf
- This may be of interest, with pages 24-25 covering the route. I wonder if JT will work any of these unusual workings into the timetable?

 

Agreed. A baseline 25 would be very applicable to other versions and routes. Building the base asset would pay off far beyond this one DLC.

 

I’m not sure if there are any JT staff reading this thread but a suggestion from me for both this route and WCMLoS as well would be the inclusion of these on some of the carriage door windows.

For me they are probably the biggest omission when looking at trains on the route as in reality they were something we saw every single day on all passenger trains. (I was one of those who would usually liberate one when I was out and about)

I’m not expecting them to be fully readable but even a representation of them would be great in some of the carriages per rake.

 

As it's quite likely that a Driver who signed 304s wouldn't also sign the route to Carlisle, the two people in the front cab may well be a Driver and a route conductor.

I hope it had some booked stops. Otherwise, with the 304's maximum speed being 75mph, the route conductor's instruction to the Driver after leaving Carlisle would be "now keep it at 75 for the next hour-and-a-half and I'll tell you when you need to brake for Carlisle..."

Even if JT do produce a 304 one day, I'm not sure I'll be first in the queue to re-create that run.

 

That brings back some memories. There are some great examples there. I like "Carlisle, Preston, Watford Jn, Euston" as a stopping pattern - a genuine Anglo-Scottish express. I don't think there's anything as fast as that any more.

A question for those with a better memory than me - has there ever been a West Coast express which omitted either Preston or Carlisle? I have a feeling there has, but I'm not sure whether I'm making it up.

 

Wow, I think the 104s and older DMUs were even slower so if you think 75mph takes forever... =-)
Or freight trains, which can be limited to 55 or 60.....

 

Found this from a former Crewe driver called Les Jackson, who did the same run in 1986.

"Tuesday March 4th 1986.
The Unit No was 304041
The train...1L49 Relief Crewe to Carlisle
5L49 ECS Carlisle to Crewe."

On the return ECS it was non-stop back to Crewe. Quite a well-known driver from what I can gather and he seemingly drove everything from Steam to 87s on that line.

 

Curious to see what region if any they expand to after preston to crewe. Would be nice to see newcastle to carlisle

 

104s and other Modernisation Plan DMUs have a maximum speed of 70mph.

The Drivers I have the most sympathy with are those who are allocated the unenviable task of returning locos/units with wheelset damage back to depot on a wheelskate - which imposes a speed restriction of 5mph.

A recent move where I work - carried out overnight to avoid disrupting services - was over a distance of 40 miles, taking 8 hours.

It’s a shocking oversight by DTG not to have created a scenario recreating such a thrilling event…

 

Hmm yes, I remember spending 8 thrilling hours dragging a 56 on a skate, got relief at Shap!
Also used to do fuelling runs with the yard 08 to Springs Branch from Carnforth! Not as bad, but the Preston to Lancaster stretch seemed to go on for hours at 15 mph.

 

JT mentioned the 86s would be used for future releases (note plural), the 86/2s famously went to God's Country (East Anglia) in the mid 80s, which is their favourite era.

 

A Driver who made similar fuelling runs told me that the ride quality on the 08 at 15mph was appalling and gave you motion sickness. Everyone hated the runs for that reason. It probably depended on the particular 08 though!

 

I was just going to mention the Bolton station pilot having to do a nocturnal journey to Newton Heath (or was it Longsight) every week for fuelling, must have been fun At least the Wigan one only had a mile to do down to Springs Branch

 

This is definitely on the buy list with fingers crossed that an expansion is added for class 25s! Have there been any more updates from JT on the route, usually in the past they have added things to the store page every 4-6 weeks but we've seen nothing since the 28th August.

 

Yes, it's odd that they've been quite quiet on updates via the JT channels - even the modern pacer pack has had a couple of updates. I only assume they're very busy working on the route.

 

Honestly it's probably as simple as the route just being further out, bare in mind the last two routes came out during the lead up to the holidays, that's certainly not the case for this one. Probably partially because unlike last time JT have more on their table with both the 86 & Pacer being developed in between.