PlayStation What If Tsw Disappears?

To use my previous analogy, I want them to fill the glass of water up carefully, just as close to the top as they can get it without spilling over.

They should know what the limit is and act accordingly, as devs in other games do.

The game you might want to make in a perfect world, can't always be the game you do make in reality, right?

And stop saying, 'but the console owners made us do it' and take a bit of agency. If you can see that the system can't handle it when doing the dev work, then you need to chop and change accordingly.

I think you will find that us console riff raff will be a lot more understanding than you might think if you explain the decision properly.

Maybe even do some console specific research and find out what is REALLY important to us and what we can actually do without quite happily?

 

Longer routes more sidings, more detailed routes, train announcements, conductor mode, better physics, "more places to go on foot", more passenger AI, more and more layers, more foliage animation, more waves animation, more vignette animations...

Every new demand made for "more stuff."

It's not unique to console players... but since console players are the majority of players then that means the majority of the demands are from console players. While asking for new stuff isn't unique.... it's not the PC users as a rule who are struggling so it's doubly important that they don't ask for things that will further slow the game down by making the game bigger and more processor intensive.

Again, as I said it's like someone who has the same job but increasingly spends more, then doesn't realize why they are in debt.
It's the same idea, just "tech debt" in performance.
The equivalent to "make more money" is "upgrade your system"... but console players can't do that if there's nothing better being sold.
Not without moving to PC.
Therein lies the conundrum.
They're not to blame for Xbox or Playstation not releasing new consoles...BUT they are to blame if they want "more" while still using the same old system.

There's nothing wrong with working a low paying job.
It's still work.
But you can't spend like you have a high paying job.
Similarly, you don't get a "high end" game to run on your console.

You get a console-optimized middle game that is limited to run on your console better.

If anyone sees this as some sort of criticism of just console players, it's not... it's just a statement of reality.
Whether that reality offends you is dependent on you because it reasonably shouldn't.
I don't expect my 2020 computer to run as well as a new 2025 computer.
It simply won't play the latest games as well as a top shelf new computer.
And why should it?
So I know some games will be stretching it until I spend money to upgrade it.

On a side note, if you want to know why devs "don't understand the issues".... do you think they're using high end gaming computers at the gaming design studio? Or old computers from 8 years ago and Gen 8 consoles?


They are NOT getting the same experience as you because they have the latest top end stuff for work.
Of course it's going to run better on their systems.
It's not intentionally being heartless or mean, it's just a different perspective.

I'd suggest for perspective they keep a few older systems around to "test" on so they get a more "average" player performance experience, but I'm not running a software company, I just led project teams for years. What do I know? =-)

This is where the "public play test" comes in, but I'm not sure they make an effort to fill it with at least a few lower-end users on older systems. It's easy to get an unrepresentative sample of players and make incorrect assumptions about the community as a whole.

Again, not a direct criticism of DTG specifically, just an observation from personal experience of what I've seen over the years in other areas. In other game testing, it's often a certain subset that comes in greater numbers to "playtest" (younger people, new systems, lots of free time... ie "gamer kids") who don't reflect necessarily the same systems or playstyles as the "average" gamer which for most sims is older, with an older system, with limited time to play. (Often just a couple hours after work)

They're just tougher to get into playtesting because they have competing demands on their time like work and family.

 

100% this!!!
I have only 2 demands as a console player...
- they fix the mountain of core bugs that have been reported for litterly years!! (I think that applies from both player bases)

- they communicate better! .. is TSW becoming a PC first title to meet the "higher demands" (to render the toilet flushes people so crave!!).. thats fine.. communicate this to the console players so we know what to expect coming forwards.. and if point 1 has been executed maybe a byproduct of that would be a smoother experience on consoles!

If the JT routes are a benchmark of what can be done on console.. thats more then fine with me!!! If some more distant details have to be reduced.. also fine with me!!

But beens S-Bahn is always the rebuttal some PC players give... no I dont think it is acceptable to just carve out ⅓ of the timetable.. make 0 other changes and charge the same price for less of a product..

If they reduced the other things first like reducing detal trackside, removing out of veiw detals.. and said ok we've done this, this, and that, it runs acceptablely on full timetable for console now... but we also offer a reduced timetable with full detail (like SEHS) that will run flawlessly.. i think thats a fair comprise!

But like you say.. facts and narrative are to different things!

 

Some truly crazy takes on this thread and this one is right up there in point missing.

 

Absolutely, something you realize if you actually look at the outside world besides train sim is that PS5 not only handles most games, there's actually a common attitude that the gen isn't really started yet. Legit, as much as people are demanding for it here lot of people think 10th gen machines are actually coming out a bit sooner than they should. And frankly it's hard to blame them, if we're this far into the gen and most games often can still run at 60FPS, albeit obviously at reduced settings, why would someone who isn't obsessed with graphics care?

Like to compare to other media, in the movie world nobody argues that Blu-ray isn't the best way to watch most movies. Yet a lot of people will happily pay less for "good enough" on streaming, or heck, even sticking with DVD over spending all the money needed for a good HD/4K player. And that's considered fine, nobody in the right mind argues it's a travesty movie studios let people watch their shows in those formats, lot of movie buffs sub to streaming services and buy older formats too after all.

Heck, go over to music and people will pay good money to listen on vinyl. which is a objectively worse reproduction of sound compared to CD or streaming. All because people just think that sound is particularly appealing, and that they get bigger, better artwork for display.

Console generations happened for various reasons, but frankly newer consoles and computers really ain't the big leaps they used to be. And increasingly you're probably gonna see more and more resistance to the idea of upgrading hardware every X amount of time. The only reason there's so much push for it here is just because TSW just happens to be one of the only games that really pushes the hardware. Which frankly is kind of sad in a way considering this was supposed to be optimized for PS4 & Xbox One starting out. Yet it needs hardware a whole generation ahead just to play even old routes at steady frame rates.

I was actually gonna bring this up in another thread, but yeah, if Sony are saying this gen's only half over then frankly that should terrify DTG if they ain't targeting gen 9 hardware. Frankly with the rumors of the PS6 handheld I wonder if Gen 10's even gonna be the big leap a lot of people here are expecting. I could honestly see a scenario where the PS6 "Home" just ends up being PS5 Pro Pro, with games being developed more around the limitations of the handheld.

 

*shrugs*
The original thread is about "Will TSW disappear?"
I think it's doing okay now, but the disconnects between parties are beginning and should be addressed at some point.
You're free to have your own opinions based on your own experiences.
Just sharing mine for perspective having seen both "sides" of the issue.
What you do with it is up to you.
I don't see it as a "blame" game as much as misunderstandings between all parties involved.

 

I just think that blaming console players 'demands' for all that is wrong with the game, is barmy.

As if DTG are just helpless passengers in the car crash, who can do nothing but acquiesce to the demands of a ruthless bunch of Xbox and PS owners.

All I have ever said as a console owner is do what you have to do to provide a game that runs better on the platform it should have been designed for and if that means taking something out then so be it. But also please at least try and gauge what is actually most important to console players before you do it.

If that is an unrealistic demand, then so be it I guess!!

Also I think the PC version should run great on PCs for PC players and if they can push that version a bit harder to match the specs of better hardware, then great, go for it.

 

TSW won't be going anywhere, even if DTG stop making stuff.

Take a look at TSC, while its becoming a more niche hobby there continue to be new third party releases. What is it? Nearly 5 years since DTG made their last significant UK DLC (the excellent extended Chatham line) for TSC and there are still new TP routes and traction that I know are in development.

If DTG were to abandon the TSW franchise, I see a similar situation. We'll continue to get official releases, hopefully traction/route enhancement packs too, but just not made by DTG.

 

Which might actually help the situation. I think DTG have made some great stuff and there is defo talent there, but not sure the heart is really in it anymore.

 

That's how you understand it, okay. Not how it was said though. I said player demands...of which console players are part of the player base. Not JUST console players. I also explained the misunderstanding and that it's not about "fault" or "blame."

Your statements come from personal rather than generalized group interest and that I think is why you're misreading entirely what I wrote. You aren't the one to decide what is "most important to all console players." You aren't the "King of the console gamers" are you?

Even if you aren't personally asking for more content in DLC, many players are including many console gamers who are the majority of the audience. There ARE demands for more content. Just look across the forum.
How many people are asking for the same or less level of detail, animation, NPCs, route length, features, etc?

A lot of those people around demanding TSW STOP adding more features?

If not...then you are demanding more features and upgrades. Again, if you personally aren't that's fine but you aren't all players so I'm puzzled why you're personally offended that a generalization to the player base as a whole (also PC players) was taken by you as a personal attack.

Get over yourself.

It is an unrealistic demand that DTG personally contact you individually to approve their plans. I never said they were without blemish, nor that any players were to "blame", I clearly said it's simple cause and effect. There's no need to get upset about it.

In fact, your outburst only shows you aren't interested in seeking understanding but rather venting a grievance. On the contrary, I think both DTG and the player base can try to understand each other better. That involves being realistic about future growth potential and what is and should be the plan forward for TSW.

As long as DTG is trying to add more features and "stuff" to routes to please those outspoken about the "latest and best improvements" you won't get a focus on stability and bug fixing optimized for consoles and lower end PCs. They are opposing goals.

If you are for stopping "upgrades" and focusing instead on sustaining the existing level of tech and "fixing bugs" then I'm 100% with you.
However, if you want "more" then yes that is part of the problem.

To be clear, that doesn't mean stopping "content" in the form of new DLC. Just no more COMPLEX and hardware intensive. Not more layers, not more animation, not more AI like NPCs, etc. New routes and locos at the current level can still be churned out, just not more "advanced" with "new features."

Frankfurt was a great example of what not to do in that regard.
Way too many layers and moving stock for lower end computers and consoles. Then when DTG tried to reduce that load to make it work on those systems, they were attacked for giving players an "inferior product." Instead, I think the lower-end "reduced load" should be the "standard" and not overdeveloped for higher end PCs. But... that requires accepting that "reduced load" as normal.

Are you willing to make that commitment until the hardware catches up?

 

I used to be a double dipper. I had content on PC & PS5. Not anymore.
Anyone saying the gen9 consoles can't cope is missing the point entirely.
People keep harping on about a train sim being a unique problem etc, I am not a programmer, so that may indeed be the case.
But let's not forget, whilst TSW can look good at times, there are many Gen9 games that look far, far better than TSW ever will.
There are also many titles that run far better than TSW ever will, and still look good. DTG have been caught out, probably by decisions made early in the life of TSW. The can has been kicked so far down the road, it's now too late without starting over.
A few examples:
Consistent features of the game built into the core. (eg, tunnel reverb) - Nope
List of consistent features each DLC MUST have ? - Nope (This then feels like some DLC has gone backwards)
DX12 to make full use of GPU`s ? - Nope (Not officially anyway)
DLSS or FSR (Or console equivalents) to improve framerates ? - Nope (Might this help the texture issue?)
Route optimisations ? - Barely
Bug Fixes ? - As little as possible
Communication? - Not Really, The community managers come on here and say what they are told to say.

This whole fiasco has nothing to do with underpowered consoles, and more to do with a lack of ability/knowledge and or willingness to address the issues the game has. This comes from the top.
I cannot for one minute believe Matt P enjoys his pride and joy being ridiculed on streams and forums.

 

Point is proven with today's announcement..

Team are out of office at an expo..
While the patch that was due last week is still MIA.. (and according to a post on another thread by dtg staff still has no date)
But dont worry if you pry open your wallets you can get a shiny new DLC! That'll fix it all!

I beg my other console players to not fall into the trap again!! Stop supporting this lot till they actually make an effort to fix what already exists!!

 

DTG says:

"...we're no longer planning to host a livestream this week. Our teams are currently busy supporting the To The Moon Expo in Birmingham over the next couple days, and also planning our next big events, which you'll hopefully see more about soon!"

What will these great events be???

 

Pretty sure the public-facing team at the expo is not also the devs working on the patches.

 

Id hope not... but thats how I took this post..
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/birmingham-crewe-feedback-thread.94801/page-13#post-1064347

"...and the DTG team to be fully back in the office to address any major concerns"

 

DTG has ~170 current employees listed on LinkedIn. A show / expo will require 5-10 people, usually public-facing. They're not taking the entire development team with them, they're just warning us that management and community facing staff will be out of office and so not to expect any live streams or responses this week.

 

This does make more sense TBH.. the tin foil hat does creep on fairly easy unfortunately!

Just again the communication.. last weeks core patch.. due midweek this week.. and the only announcement we see is about staff being away... and a comment saying the patch is both getting finishing touches.. but is also with the storefronts waiting final approval..
Im just confused as to where that core patch is.. so im grasping at the speculation straws! That's my bad!

 

Yeah they could communicate better, can't argue with that... If the patch needs more work or they want to add extra fixes to it that's fine, just announce it and then lock the thread (but then speculation will pop up elsewhere anyway...)

Had a similar case at work last week, and a good example of why communication is important. New version of one of our solutions with various security enhancements was due out second week of November. Got pushed back last minute due to not passing QA (which is a GOOD thing) but no internal announcement to tell anyone outside of R&D. A major new customer needed this version to start their rollout and was expecting it to land last week, as announced, so they went and put on a nice big webinar to inform the relevant senior managers of its (many) corporate entities that deployment was beginning this week. We found out about the delay an hour after their webinar had ended. They were.... not best pleased (as you're entitled to be when your turnover is £20+ billion).

All it would have taken was a call or e-mail to warn other staff of the delay and the whole thing would have been reduced to a far less severe inconvenience.

Ok so a patch for a game isn't quite as serious (although £20Bn is probably close to what I've spent on DLC now) but still, managing expectations is what it's all about, especially when you have a community management team dedicated to communicating with customers. Even just a "we intend to fix this and that" type post would go miles towards reducing the complaints, as only the most negative voices here would continue to complain about something they know is being fixed.

 

Fully agree!!
I get they cant communicate every miniature update.. but like you say.. just a small bump.. were still on it.. making good progress.. whatever it may be..
especiallin situations like this core patch we have been told to expect it mid week... So mid week comes.. maybe say something insted of letting us put the peices together (rightly or wrongly)

And genuinely laughing at the 20Bn on DLC.. it does feel that way at times!!

 

Problem is, they often do say that and then, well, don't fix it at all, ever.

And you can go and look, years later and these things are still broken.

I often type in bugs to google and get some forum page or other flagged up from the early 2020s, with someone complaining about the exact same issue and then someone with a DTG badge popping up and saying, 'yep, we know and we have a fix', only for said fix to never be implemented.

 

aka "Passed to Engineering..." never to be heard of again (like more save slots or fixing the save game follow on service bugs).

 

There simply isn't a real team within DTG anymore dedicated to maintaining the game's inventory. That just seems to be a fact, no matter what anyone claims. It's obvious:

At the start of a new DLC, there are one or two updates, but they only improve the bare minimum, like unfinished scenarios or missing collectibles. Everything else is deemed unnecessary by DTG because "you can still play it somehow," and the losses are kept to a minimum.

This has been the case for years, for as long as I can remember. Sad, but true. That's a shame, because you can see that it can be done very differently (e.g., take a look at ETS2).

 

I don't personally want it to go and highly doubt it will

 

the worse is that you just move to TSC lmao.
coding there is a bit... poor there but at least you get the entire if not most of the UK and that actually includes at least a route from bad to good from odd countries.

 

Hello to every single person that’s left a comment.

Firstly I’d like to say thank you for adding comments that are relevant, helpful and very informative.
A lot of comments have helped shine light upon issues that are key to TSW users, be those of the past now or the future.
Again a lot of fantastic comments shining light on these and other issues that some may not be aware or of.
I for one learned a lot from reading all the comments left, hopefully the same information will serve others with limited knowledge on some deeper workings of DTG just as well as it has me.

I thank you all that’s commented above for sharing your experience and thoughts.

My apologies for not being around after post the thread too. I have a nasty habit of waffling which can interfere with the flow from other users. So I thought I’d butt out and hear what the community has to say for once.

Like one member points out the video has a title aimed specifically to hype up a situation that might not be worrying as the title will or could suggest. Click bait.
There seems to be a common theme of moving away from older generation updates to UE5 is also a key theme going on.
Plus the long standing trend of the past in quality of its products that continues today that has left many users feeling exhausted by how the franchise has been run to some degree.

In fact there’s a great amount of information provided that I feel has helped focus in on key aspects to the survival of TSW or DTG.
Be in the form that user have now or a complete refresher of the franchise moving forward with UE5.
I think that would be a fair assessment using the limited knowledge and experience I have of working in the games industry or how it all works in general.
What all have provided has given me a better understanding and sense of how users really feel.
The nitty gritty stuff clearly all that has left comments understand well.

For me personally that didn’t watch the YT video did start me think worryingly with what is actually happening on the face of it all.
But I know what these videos can be like so what better way to gain real information than hearing from people that play TSW and many other train sim titles for that matter.

To put it all in to the true context for the real issues be heard from us the DTL community so the real issues or concerns that’s plagued the franchise for a number of years now resulting in a number of injuries to customers confidence can be seen and heard by hopefully those that can remove the pain users/customers face, wipe the past clean and start again on a clean slate.

Today I’ve seen some evidence of this happening with a new update from DTG Alex on Discord.
Something I personally noticed was update to the class 700. I hope that is including LD.
I sensed that the teams have been listening because they are taking the time to work on issues rather than brush over them.
I’ve seen less time spent promoting and streaming yet again I believe the DTG teams are away at some Moon event is the real reason for lack of streaming.
Yet if DTG are cracking on with core games issues over time spent streaming or promoting would at least to me suggest they are listening and so cracking on with the task in hand. If so may that continue or possibly work on what’s been discussed in this thread.
To isolate key factors in why a majority of people have such opinions, repair and move on for everyone’s benefit.

So IF TSW/DTG is at a point where a majority of users/customers aren’t happy right now or even willing to buy new content could again suggest something ain’t right and so DTG need to act now.

I’d like to think by adding our two cents in how a company goes about its business is supporting DTG and a TSW franchise console players in particular bought thinking they had made the right decision to plough hundreds of pounds into a franchise that offers lucky dips in what works off the shelf and what doesn’t.

That’s asking customers that have been paying over the years to keep gambling. People don’t like to gamble especially with money in today’s climate.
Is DTG doing a bit of gambling itself with the development of MR, if so in time all will see how that gambling match went on.
Gambling is a risk full stop.

But whom ever is at the table right now means the customer has walked away and no longer placing wild bets like that of the past.
Therefore if MR doesn’t pay off and no players at the TSW table that walked away while gambling was going on, then the house will lose money.

The gambling didn’t pay off and it’s too late when the damage is done to a main standing franchise when past players took to other games or franchises.

These are one of many examples or concerns I feel some commenting have, I do looking in.

What ever the case maybe in, I’d like to see DTG sort the game and franchise full stop. No pomp or ceremony, a stable quality game is what users need and payed for with confidence or mis placement of confidence if left behind with a confusing look while each year the same process continues with a 9th or 10th alliteration of the original franchise. (Don’t quote me on that information tho).

Many commenting have possibly seen it all, and it’s that very reason for a majority of how users feel.

DTG, I can only assume how much money those commenting have invested over the years.
I know I’ve made a big investment.
I’m sure all those commenting only want to see they made a good investment.
We are all in some way little investors, investors will always invest if they see a good return.
Forget the formalities and get down to business.

Can’t speak for everyone, yet if I see an improvement especially with what I’d consider small issues that spoil my individual TSW experience then I might flash the cash again.
Not a fan of the One Armed Bandits.

And on that note I will say thank you to everyone for being here to spend time sharing their experiences and honest opinions.
I know it’s not an easy subject to cover, with respect for others opinions then it will allow the truth to be heard away from petty arguments that distract from what’s being said.

Listening is what most do, they can’t hear if everyone shouts.
A clear message must be sent.

I think the community commenting has done that in a constructive manner.
It’s up to DTG now.

Rigsby.
✌.

 

I’d like you to know I agree with what you have said.

I appreciate your knowledge too, I don’t follow that much you see. DTL is my little hide out.
So I value the information provided.

I’d firmly believe and so agree by DTL possibly wasting time money and resources on a console that even Sony has stopped supporting is of no great benefit unless PS4 users are still a huge source of revenue. I know DTG Matt has been over this subject of development and support for PS4 users and how PS4 sales is worth DTG time, at this present moment tho.
Could I say that based on this would be a valid argument or reason for DTG to draw a line in the sand as you put it for supporting or new content catering for an obsolete console. I don’t own a PC but I’ve heard a PC can be obsolete within weeks the technology moves so fast.
So treating consoles the same as PC would make PS4 totally obsolete and so a little pointless focusing on in the long term.

For any reader then for clarification on this I feel fixes and then new content or features or totally separate things.
Going of all original TSW content then that content must be left in a working order.
What is defined as working order tho or the legal jargon.
Simply put it means devs have certain room for bugs to be part of a game with huge amounts of data being the name of the game so to speak. Bugs are all part of the development cycle to sales. I’d assume it’s upto the devs to iron out as much as they want for customers and not sticking with the basic legal requirements laid out under the terms working or defined as working.

So how PS4 or game content is left before DTG cut the support is down to the law and the individual company.
Leave PS4 content to a basic working level or something that surpasses the standard of requirements defined as working order.

If looking at this from a PS4 customer perspective then I think DTG can cut support or ties with PS4 under those conditions.
To what state it’s left is down to DTG and its overall reputation.
Passed all that then DTG can freely focus on TSW or MR be new content or improvements.
I hope we both share this understanding applying the logic of time and money wasted in ares of low or no profit margins.
It’s completely unviable for any company to continue losing revenue if the time to cut is long over due.

So yes I do feel moving on with the times could be a benefit for the franchise in the longer term. I’ve always said this about the franchise.
Having LD or Photo mode just isn’t enough for today’s players. Does trains offer limited opportunities for fresh ideas and why DTG have gone with MR. Yet DTG could offer more to TSW users by supplying new classes of traction for sim players. Not gamers or arcade players wanting more action from TSW.

The two markets the two different game theme.

For the sales figures (Console?) then if in the green that’s good news.

The franchise has given me so much as it helps with some of my personal issues.
So I don’t want the or game to go anywhere but I do agree they need to move on when the time is right from PS4.

✌.

 

I’d agree to that and you’re probably right after a user pointing out DTG working two years ahead.
So in some aspects TSW6 would be old news soon as it’s released.

✌.

 

I don't know if calling MR a gamble is the right term.
TSW (I play on PC) for me is satisfying.
I don't see all these problems.
Perhaps it's because of the way I use TSW.
The only advice I can give is to select the DLCs you want to buy or buy on sale.
Currently, if I'm not mistaken, TSW has reached a value of €3,200.00 in content.
A nice sum.
After that, technology advances, and TSW will reach the end of its lifespan.
Nothing lasts forever.
I can't go to a dealer and complain that the Audi I bought 10 years ago doesn't have current technology.
The Audi from 10 years ago is simply old and has depreciated.
If I want the latest innovations, I have to shell out the money again, and I can't even ask for an upgrade for my old car, because it would most likely be impossible.

 

Once again, this totally misses the point!!

If you were sold your Audi with a twenty year 'future proof' guarantee and then it was obsolete after 10, would you be fine with that?

They are selling us a console game that is supposed to work on console, nothing has been said to suggest otherwise from anyone at DTG.

If they had sold the console game with a 'buyer beware, this may not work optimally on your console and proceed at your own peril, as DTG bears no responsibility for the reduced performance you may encounter' sticker, then we would not be having this conversation.

And just for some extra context, this is a screen grab from one of my runs on Birmingham CC on Series X today...

 

If you almost close your eyes it looks fine

 

So the update went well then .. i see it download today..but have 0 desire to play TSW right now!

 

Fair comment. I too use TSW4 more but each game has it own foibles. TSW5 I’ve given up on with ECML and WCML south. And then there’s more fun to have on TSW6 so I believe with issue from TSW5 porting over.

And it’s also fair to say if anything did happen then it’s probably due to massive greed from the money men and not the devs.
That always seems to be the case in the past with games companies. It’s more about money than fun games and quality content.
Why I’ll never buy a EA game really because they turned gaming into something else. Addiction by spending stupid amounts of cash on the game then added money packs or kit packs all to target younger gamers wanting to keep up with their mates on the social ladder.

Money ruins everything that matters.

✌.

 

To be fair to them, they fixed quite a few things and if it was specific to the locos/routes you play a lot, then you can be at least somewhat pleased.

But that is about 1% of the total required and also does nothing to help the performance issues on consoles.

 

Thanks for putting my mind at rest there about the context of what the YT video is about.

If anything I guess it’s raising awareness or a question, I can’t blame anyone for that.
And if so the YT may have a point just as you point out and where others see what the problem is too with TSW.
Or the bigger picture on what’s really going on.

Plus even tho I don’t venter out on the games scene much being a creature of habit or routine I stay close to TSW but I do see your point where if anything did happen to what I’d consider a big player with a large monopoly over the market and its customers could be a huge benefit for smaller players that you’ve mentioned. Some I’ve never heard of.

It would allow a clear path for others to fill the gap or DTG’s boots in a manner which pleases players/ customers.
Man if I had the money and experience I’d probably have a pop myself lol.

At the end of the day removing any loyalty to one argument or support for DTG I do see your point.
It’s all business at the end of the day. Numbers of Sales and Profit. Customer satisfaction is one way to keep sales even but in business no company can rest or become complacent because it only takes one company to see the cracks and exploit them.

Hence look after the customer and the customers will look after business.
And if DTG don’t then like you say there are many waiting to fill the gap.

✌.

 

Yeah.. I saw the notes looked promising!! But i struggle to get over the whole Birmingham - Crewe patch delay till December.. yet it still being available to purchase for the very consoles it wont work on.. it wasnt ready on release day.. it wasnt ready last week, or this week, or this month... so why did it (and still is) go on sale..
The whole DLC was nothing more then a cash injection..

 

Well, I've just fired up Steam and downloaded today's core update. Looks like we're starting to get the console experience on PC now (this was five minutes after loading the route at Euston)

 

I wouldn't be surprised if DTG is making it easier for its 'teams' to support the manifold of releases by dumbing them down to the smallest common denominator, the power of the average console.
And thinking 'to heck with PC' because the consoles is where the easy money comes from?

 

Do you ever shut up about consoles and the people like me who choose to use them? I thought I'd left all the "my Commodore 64 is better than your spectrum 48k" in the past where it belongs.

 

Wow.

On PC!!!??

That is classic console performace.

 

I posted a separate thread an hour ago to see if anyone else was seeing this, but so far no replies and no poll responses... It may just be my PC but it's odd that it happened immediately after the update...

I checked if any Windows updates had been installed (nope) and rebooted my PC for good measure, but no change.

Waiting to see if anyone else out there is seeing the same thing before I file a bug report.

JB

 

This I’ve mentioned on your thread, the one about lack of assistance so perfectly agree with the statement of having such a huge back catalogue are users in a real hurry to go buy newer releases.
You know by the nature or topic of discussion picks up on all these matters.

Yes DTG does need a radical overhaul soon. Would this be the ace up there sleeve if things did go slight of track.
But I can tell that you’re not a huge supporter of to much of a change to what is a train sim and that’s who it’s aimed at. Train fans and sim players. So I can see where you’re coming from. Yet I have disagree on the matters of DTG doing something different as it has with MR.

Looking at all of this from a business or commercial perspective then DTG needs to bring in new players or theme of game away from TSW.
I see this as a good thing for number of number of reasons.

DTG needs to shake it up and move with the times or younger generations that are a huge part of adding to a multibillion pound industry.
Tapping into to that market would open a whole new audience that are statistically more likely to spend money on micro purchases than adults. We don’t have the need to or under an peer pressure to to do so.
Yet take Fortnight or Rocket League as prime examples of a free game making money.
It’s tapping into a huge market willing to spend money on quite literally anything these days as long as it means keeping up with their mates.
There is a social aspect to how such games are designed and what I mean about peer pressure. I know because I’ve witnessed the effects on a child’s state of mind.
You wouldn’t need to go far to in order to read up on how damaging such games can be.

Just like being in school in the 90s. If a kid didn’t have Kickers then they’d be considered poor and down the social ladder they go.

So getting back to the point of why I think it’s a good thing that DTG is trying new things is not really aimed at TSW players.
It’s designed to try enter into a new market with new customers because depending on how many different markets DTG is in will be like having all their eggs in one basic if TSW is the main revenue source for the company with no other major game to plug any drop in one area revenue share.
No one can blame DTG for sticking its fingers in to others pies. They need to explore different avenues of revenue and not hang on to TSW like it’s going to providing a good turn over forever.

Yet it’s only fair to say that if one game takes away focus on another then like we were discussing in your thread we will see the results of that with issues your raised a tickets about the overall lack of support, then separately to your own individual issues the team have the set backs to fix buggy products not long released.
Again a sign or clear indication some rushing around must be a contributing factor and is that due to MR being worked on with a small number of staff that did originally work on TSW.

✌.

 

I’d agree to that. I’ve seen and heard it all before, so yes I see your point

✌.

 

Hahahaha, Matts new name could be Mr Cellophane

✌.

 

I’ve been reading over all these comments and my life there’s a lot.

Anyway I want to say you summed a TSW user day to day gamers experience perfectly.
I agree with everything said. I’ve been saying the same thing for a number of years.
It’s only human nature that in time and under such circumstances will people realise then walk away.

Big issues are big issues but looking at any individual issue will show it’s the small ones, like what you explained is what can put users of the most I feel. The time wasted, and the amount of frustration that comes with wasting that time.
I’ve had so many frustrating experiences, grouping issues in LD and without going into detail then with formation designer too.
I’ve encountered the same issues with the GWE Class 43 and the MML Class 43 (Just the Power Cars) the MML PC will not show up in LD.
The whole experience can be draining thus no fun to be around if wanting a nice relaxing evening with the game.
Something will always pop up to spoil the experience.

Then the money factor or fading trust. Again it’s only a matter of time before one says enough is enough.
I’ve definitely cut back on spending money now because after purchasing 5 add on packs or freight packs including a number of routes and TS6 all have a problem be little or large they all matter to me the individual.
But it’s becoming more and more apparent that unless a massive issue is affecting a large users base then DTG might act, yet anything else important to the individual seems to get filed away.

It’s a vicious circle of weak products and poor users/customer satisfaction that will eventually come to head if left to continue as it has.

So no need for me to go further as again you have perfectly summed it all up. I really do agree with you on everything and if anyone from DTG is reading can see what many of us have been banging on about for some time now with no response or being mocked even for trying to get our voices heard by raising the issues many are now saying enough is enough and something has to change.

And if DTG has left many users feeling a little gullible for spending each year would mean the cut to customers confidence runs deep.
Like I said to me quack if one put their hand on a hot kettle we learn not to do it again.
Same principles apply here, customers have been burnt one to many times and no longer prepared to allow it to happen by not spending money on DTGs latest release or given up entirely.

I appreciate the time spent on writing your post, I really hope DTG are able to read over these so they can see the existent of the pain and frustration users like your good self have encountered over so many years.
I don’t work for DTG but if I did then for me personally I couldn’t leave issues unresolved for that long.

God willing if anything should come of this or any comments that you and all get what users paid for in good faith fixed to fair or decent level of quality/ working condition.
There’s no excuse for poor in game functionality or cutting corners to save time.
I’ve played Ubisoft games where I have been a member of a few sites in the past, if this was happening to players of Ubisoft games there would be absolute chaos on the forums.
Games today have be near perfect from day one, especially the main titles from the big gaming corporations players uses most.
There’s no room for error at all, one wrong move or mistake could spell the end of a major market player.

DTG needs to do the same by making a pure solid game that a younger player could pick up and understand.
Kids these days don’t have the patience for messing around trying to figure out the bugs or get their head around what’s going on over playing the actual game. One of my children played TSW but gave in because it was to much of a hassle or such poor quality to what they are normally use too if playing GTA or Fortnite.

TSW needs all the basic features on top of what else needs to be improved looked into.
Basic such as search features, menu options or formations and LD designer not only for any individual needs but for easy use of all ages.
This would be heading towards a topic of target sales or age group the game is aimed for.

But I feel I’ve waffled on enough, again thank you for your post and sharing your whole experience with TS, TSC, TSW.
You’ve defo seen the lot and have my respect when listening to what you have to say.

Have great weekend now

✌.

 

Hey just seen this. Have things changed since posting?.

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Good point. Keeping things short then it’s either A, it’s deemed satisfactory working order according to any laws or gaming industry regulations. Meets basic standards or requirements so goes to market.
Or it is as you say a cash injection if released by DTG knowing the issues.
I doubt DTG would do that tho because why would they, unless DTG is really struggling financially so took the risk anyway.
But again I do doubt that to be the case because again I’m sure some questions would be asked in higher places.

If the situation with Birmingham - Crewe is bad then it should be taken off sale or customers to be aware before purchasing the product.
Surely customers need to be informed about the situation before purchasing.
Otherwise it’s like buy a car from a salesman that tells you the cars all sweet, but when driving of the wheels drop off.
Customer should be aware or informed before purchasing. I also feel the product should be sold at discounted prices due to the risk associated with buying the route in question while in the state that it is now.

If the product stays on sale would a suggestion of putting some other DLC’s on sale to help improve matters.
I know I’d buy other routes if discounted with the cash set aside for Birmingham - Crewe.

What ever the case I feel DTG need to do more to soften the blow to customers loyalty or spending confidence.
If not players not willing to wait for the fix or a new sale and go take their money else where.

If I ran a business then I’d rather get 5 pounds than nothing at all, to see my customers and revenue walk away to a competitor would make no commercial sense whatsoever in my book.

✌.

 

As ive just posted on the feedback thred..
Im 99% sure it breaks Consumer Laws in the UK..
They made it avaliable for sale .. acknowledge its broken.. and acknowledge it will not be fixed until December (at least) yet it is still avaliable to purchase..
Not allowed to KNOWINGLY sell broken products in this country..
(Obviously this only applies to the console version)

 

The broken timetable with no arrival times applies equally to the PC version. As do the Class 350 physics issues (the accelerometer still wobbles up and down even when coasting).

 

There are far more hardware-intensive games for current-gen consoles that all have far better performance on said current-gen consoles.

Dovetail is the problem here. They will not fix core issues that have plagued the game unless it starts affecting their profits, which clearly it hasn't because they still haven't fixed said bugs.
Train Sim World is very poorly optimised and it only seems to be getting worse every time they drop a new DLC.
I hate to say it but the only realistic way I see this being resolved is the game being remade in UE5.

Train Sim World 6 is a dumpster on fire dumped on a game that was already a dumpster on fire, itself a game dumped on a dumpster on fire.

 

Furthermore, it's become a mess over time because features from each new edition aren't implemented in previous DLCs (perhaps due to programming that's too difficult to modify?).
There needs to be consistency.