Us Routes!

Another example of what not to do... another route like Cane Creek. Yes the scenery is very nice, particularly when you get down in the canyons. But the driving is mind numbingly boring, over 30 miles at 25 MPH or less, just occasionally tweaking dynamics or power. Makes Clinchfield look like the Shinkansen!

 

I get what you're saying but it fails on the "interesting" part. The freight on it is very boring and short A-B runs. Not a lot of variety. As I've said before, that's fine in a commuter line since you expect to just stop, open doors, close doors and go. That's what commuter IS. It's quick and simple. However, the appeal of freight is more the whole process. Pick up cargo (shunting), take cargo, drop cargo off (shunting) so NOT having those extra steps in freight is as "realistic" as a commuter train that NEVER OPENS ITS DOORS.

Would we claim that was "realistic?" We have numerous complaints about "better NPC behavior", but no big push to get real shunting and building consists in the game which would be the freight equivalent.

As I said, there's not much variety either. Just as NPCs aren't all identical, freight shouldn't look all identical. There's the same chance you cargos will all look the same as there is your passengers all dress exactly the same.

Again, a very euro commuter centered focus for TSW in general.

The older routes like Sand PatchGrade and Oakville were much better in this regard but that appears to have fallen by the wayside. Now we get only freight as add on layers for commuter focused likes like MBTA or San Bernadino. Which I get because commuter sells (especially to the europeans, youth and urbanites) but that's not the majority of US rail traffic.

Then, oddly when there is a chance for both and expand the catalog (like the existing amtrak stations on Horseshoe Curve or the empty commuter stations on Oakville) the ball is dropped. Huge sidings on most maps stand empty too. Whole branch lines on some maps created in detail then not used (but you can walk down them in first person and see they're done)

So much wasted effort.

 

Perfect is the enemy of adequate.

 

My main request is get away from California and the NEC. Let’s explore other areas.

If I could have any one route or corridor it would be the Piedmont Corridor in NC from Charlotte to Raleigh. Has a ton of variety between services and high speeds as well along the route.

The namesake Piedmont trains between Charlotte and Raleigh have multiple stops along the route and is currently using F59PHIs and F59PH locomotives with several end to end trips each day. Some interesting Stations and areas along the route. Amtrak also has two long distance trains come through, the Carolinian and the Crescent. Norfolk Southern also runs very frequently throughout each day.

Other routes of interest are:

1) California Zephyr Route through Colorado and Utah.
2) Marias Pass.
3)Donner Pass
4) Norfolk Southern S Line Asheville to Salisbury with the old fort loops
5)Saluda Grade
6 ) Basically any routes South of Virginia.

One of my main request is historical content to add variety. Anything set pre 1975 is an instant buy for me.

 

On another note then, Candace, with the news in another thread that Brandon aka Cactusjuice is stepping back from working as a consultant with DTG to set up signalling on US routes, where does that leave any future route projects going forward? I know you can’t discuss the internal DTG politics that may have led to this unfortunate situation, but does the EP or whoever organises the route building teams and consultants have a Plan “B” as regards bringing in someone with the necessary skills to fulfill those previously provided by Brandon?

 

Plan B is to launch routes like the Antelope Valley or San Bernardino Line without any safety systems. However, this may be an opportunity for retro routes.

 

I agree with you about the apparent loss of Brandon as a member of the development team. It's unfortunate, though I would imagine it was his decision and the reasons may be personal.

However I think asking Candace to explain the plan to replace him going forward is asking way too much of the newest CM. CM's are the PR arm of the company and are not, I would think, able to answer policy questions, especially regarding personnel.

I'm not sure what to expect from the US CM, but I would imagine that the purpose of appointing such a person is to provide more US oriented information similar to what the UK based CM's do for UK players, information that is given to them by management to disseminate to players.

If I'm correct in that assessment, I welcome Candace to the forum. We US players might as well be on Mars as far as communication about US content is concerned currently, and her appointment at least shows that DTG hasn't abandoned us.

I imagine there are limits as to what insights we can expect from any CM. They can only impart to us what information they have been entrusted with.

But it's good to have that bridge on this side of the pond. We can ask questions and might receive some decent answers instead of the silent treatment.

 

As a liason between the community and the devs, and one who has been specifically briefed to gather information regarding the community's interest in US-based products, I don't think it's unreasonable to at least broach the subject through professional channels instead of everyone just wildly speculating. I'm sure she's best positioned to bring the feedback to DTG that the playerbase has concerns about what this might mean for US routes going forwards, and to at least try to coax some kind of actual professionally prepared official response out of them on the subject.

 

As above, don’t ask, don’t get. Losing a fairly key member of personnel when it comes to the operational integrity of US routes is not only a reflection of DTG poor people management of the project but a real concern for content from this region going forward. In other words, there’s not much point asking for people to state what future North American routes they would like to see, if there aren’t any staff or consultants to build them!

 

Losing Brandon for the US content is akin to losing Maik for the German content, or Ed for the vintage German and UK content. Oh my word, I’ve just started a panic attack with the thought that this could happen. These people really know their stuff and can make it work very well in game and although there are other talented devs these really are key people in making the highest quality content and it is a huge loss when one of them steps away. Brandon is a safe pair of hands and I hope he can return one day.

 

1. I would like the Metro North Hudson Line (New York to Poughkeepsie), but if distance is an issue, I wouldn't mind (New York to Croton Harmon)

2. I am a local commuter along Metro North's Hudson line and find it to be the most scenic route along Metro North East of Hudson territory. I often commute between NYC and upstate and enjoy the views of the distant foliage along the Hudson River. especially north of Croton Harmon.

These are some pictures that I have captured while railfanning along the scenic Hudson line


Metro North M7-A inbound semi express passing Riverdale



At Poughkeepsie, we have several Metro North push-pulls and an Amtrak train departing for Albany


Over at Croton Harmon diesel shops, we have several locomotives/rolling stock, consisting of BL20GH, BL14CH, Metro North's laser train cab car for leaf service (former NJT Comet III), GP35-R, Shoreliner coaches, and P32AC-DM passenger locomotive



An inbound Hudson line express en-route for Grand Central Terminal, making a station stop at Croton Harmon.


Metro North M8 Christmas special making a rare stop at Marble Hill. This was like an Easter Egg for Metro North last year, as it consists of a single M8 consists in a holiday theme, making appearances on the Hudson, Harlem and New Haven line.

 

How retro is "retro"?

It is a very nice route and it's in TSC so there's plenty of reference out there for it. I think there's a good chance they'd do this one if they have all the licensing. It's up there with Morristown and the MBTA routes for being well known amount commuters. Since DTG already has the LIRR, Harlem and the NEC out of Penn, it's really a logical addition.

Have you put this in the "suggestion" thread yet, malik? It really deserves it's own thread.

 

There have been several threads in the Suggestions forum for the Hudson Line. Maybe bump the latest one from about 2 weeks ago?

It's a very good route but it needs to go way beyond Croton- Harmon, perhaps to Poughkeepsie.

 

Hello Candace, and a warm welcome! Welcome to the loonie bin… We’re glad to have you. How did the Mardis Gras service treat you? (Oh yeah, I read that intro…)

I’ll be honest, I’m at work and didn’t have time to read all the replies, so at the risk of repeating a recommendation, let’s swing for the fences:

Route: Amtrak’s Empire Builder, from Seattle, WA (or Portland, OR) to Chicago, IL.

Why: This is an iconic American route, one of Amtrak’s most popular and busiest, operated daily year-round. It covers diverse terrain, an extremely popular National Park (Glacier NP), huge mountains, small, medium, and large cities, and vast wilderness areas.

Maybe our TSW tech isn’t quite at the point where it can handle something like this. But here’s hoping. It would be a nice showcase of what our sim is capable of. It would also be, by a good margin, the longest route we’d have. So it’s a long shot, but hey, you don’t get what you don’t ask for. So there, I asked .

The real route is run in just under 48 hours, and I think many of us are ready for much longer journeys than the 1- or even 2-hour services we get in TSW now. Those are needed too, but sometimes I want a bigger sense of accomplishment. Just like how in Microsoft Flight Sim I can do a 20 minute flight, or an 18-hour flight. I find myself doing both types interchangeably, which helps keep things fresh.

I could be wrong, so I’d be interested in who here would like a multiple-hour service to drive? Is it just me? Maybe I’m the lunatic But I’d like a journey that takes me more than 100 km from where I started. I want the challenge of having a service that tries to stay on-time over a couple of full days. So I can save, come back, continue. And with the added failures of TSW6, this becomes a more realistic proposition, where we’re fighting not only the elements, but sometimes the machine in order to make our destination on time.

Or maybe I’m the odd one out?

Anyways, thank you for asking, and I look forward to your contributions! Welcome again.

 

I think you're being overly modest. They could build the entire Amtrak network in a couple of weeks with all the trains included. They just don't want to, because it's too simple.

The problem is not that the service will take too long, or that the saving system doesn't work very well. The problem is that is a multi-year project, assuming they canceled all the other addons development.
And we'll sit and wait. Wait for a price tag of a couple thousand per copy, and a million bugs that will be difficult to catch. Not to mention that all these years they will have to pay salaries to employees, rent, etc. If you are a rich sponsor, you can try to buy the development of this route from DTG. Otherwise, it is unrealistic.

 

I hate to be "that guy", but I think we need to start asking DTG to stop listening to that segment quite so much. I know they're usually very enthusiastic, but when you get them slamming every new release over some problems that are, in the end, small potatoes...I cannot imagine that being good for encouraging devs to experiment or try to bring us routes or that they might not have all the tiny little details on.

 

I expect DTG have annual survey data on how people feel about this, and that influences decision making based on how prevalent such sentiment is. Though of course, it may be that it's not as strong as someone might express when actually put to the test.

 

I sit on the fence regarding authentic sounds.

I have been quite vocal in my criticism of the Class 150 sounds, which seem to get worse with each attempt. But that's more because the pretty much identical Class 153 sounds are available but DTG won't use them.

However if DTG were to do something like an Alco C420 (I wish!) if it didn't come with correct sounds and was aliased to a GM or GE it would be a travesty. On the other hand, a NYC Subway train aliased to a BR DC unit (so long as not Electrostar!), that would be okay in my book, to get the system in the game.

 

I think that's why we get what we do. Their surveys and purchase statistics probably show the casuals on console who are very tolerant of bugs, issues and "inconsistencies" far outnumber the small number of perfectionists. That's why they release things as they do at the pace they do. If it paid to release half the content in a highly polished state, they'd do that.

In business, you have to often go by what the customer shows they want, not what they SAY they want. For example most of the people that SAY they "shop local" and "buy from locally made products" do not in fact do that. If you follow their spending habits, they still go to the same "box" stores and buy a lot of imported stuff that's cheaper and of less quality.

Most of the TSW playerbase does in fact keep buying the "unfinished and buggy" products. We don't have direct sales numbers from DTG, but we have player numbers and some sales numbers (on Steam anyway) and the fact that it keeps happening. Companies do what has worked in the past until forced to change.

On gameplay itself, yes there is an impact from if people can't play the game. That is clear. The stuttering, bluriness, crashing... those do affect gameplay and are addressed fairly quickly. However, rivet counting complaints generally aren't because they don't really move the needle. They likely don't produce enough sales to justify the delay and cost of "fixing" them.

Take the "incorrect paint shade" on the Santa Fe liveries. How many people will entirely not buy the pack based on that? How many people even NOTICE, let alone care? How many even noticed the EOT device at the back? I think the "simulator" people often lose track of the fact that the majority of the playerbase are not "hard core" simmers.

We can discuss the WHY, but in a nutshell I personally think it boils down to the platform self-selection bias. The people willing to invest heavily in the "sim" aspect in any game tend to be the ones on PC with lots of peripherals, not console players. TSW was created as an entry into the game from a console perspective. There are very few "hard core" console simmers. You just don't get "realistic" from an XBox controller.

The same base of "hard core" gamers on PC have lots of other options like Run 8, SIm Rail, Railroader, or Derail Valley which are much more "realistic" vs "gameplay" focused. TSW is more "game" focused. It says "sim" but so do lots of mobile phone games. It doesn't MAKE them full fidelity simulators just because it's in the name.

This is maybe an 80% sim if that. Probably less however you'd measure it. The player base is strongly console and strongly casual. Demanding "hard core" simming just doesn't work because the number of people that notice and will pay extra for that level of authenticity is low in the community.

I can't speak for all the players, but I know MYSELF, I take the DLC reviews of TSW products with an open mind. I look at it for "fun" not "realism." They are not the same things for everyone. What is "fully realistic" for one person can be "boring" to another. A tiny number of people want full 8 hour train rides with full safety systems and faults. That sounds like work, not a fun diversion AFTER work for an hour or two.

I won't notice or care about the paint shade, the EOT, the safety systems, the threadcounts on seats, accessing the bathroom, if the timeline for a train is off by 1 year, or if the timetable is 10 minutes different from real life. They're just not important and the amount of work to determine if they're "realistic" is frankly a lot of WORK that just makes the game LESS fun in the end.

To me.
As I said, everyone is different.
However, people are a lot more "normie" in TSW than I think many of the hard core fans would like to admit. A HUGE amount of the DLCs are bought by normie gamers. They want something "fun", whether it's "realistic" or not because they're playing a game, not curating a museum collection.

It's not "wrong" to be a hard core rail fan. It's just admittedly a much smaller group than normies. Normies pay the bills, like in most businesses. Most car buyers can't tell you the details of how every part of their car works. They're not car "collectors" , they just want a car that works. They'll notice if the car won't run, but they won't notice if the paint is the right shade for that year of that model.

Regarding this thread (and others like it), having the EXACT "right sounds" isn't as important as them "sounding right" to the normie who has never been on that train...because most players have never been on that train and will NOT know the difference. They will NOT go into a deep dive to find the "correct" sounds. They will not buy the DLC more if it has the "correct" sounds, nor will they stop buying the DLC if they're "not authentic" as long as they "sound right."

If a diesel engine sounds like a diesel engine...that's "good enough" for most people that are buying DLC.

I'm not saying it's "good" or "bad", it's just the reality of how the world works. That's not just true with trains. It's how business works.

Market what sells best to the most people.

You could try the other business model of ONLY selling perfect content to the tiny number of people that demand that level of fidelity, but now you're into corporate and government customers because it costs 10 times as much. You can GET a better flight simulator than MSFS on XBox with full fidelity and an authentic cockpit. But you'll be paying airline/military amounts of money to get it.

I'm sure they have BETTER simulators at the railway companies for training, but expect to pay thousands for it and you can't play it on Playstation.

Just saying have some perspective when making demands. There's a lot about the game I don't personally like, but I'm not always the target audience and that's okay.

 

Outside of the Tier 4 ES44 none of the TSW American engines have had particularly good sound sets, yet all sold well enough initially. So many assume DTG's analysis is correct on sound being the killer, but frankly I think it's worth a wonder if maybe they're just as off on that as they are on steam. (In my and some others opinions at any rate)

Frankly I think recent discussion about how little variation in service variety they have is more on the money. I'll bring up a old post I made in a thread talking about ECML two years ago. (Jesus)

I don't think it was a coincidence in retrospect that freight died after the release of Sherman Hill with those factors in mind.

Really if you want a good argument against listening to players I think that's a actual good one. Routes that are well known IRL aren't necessarily known because they have good qualities that make them great for. I've said before in regards to Settle - Carlisle that many of the qualities that make that great for railtours actually work against it in a train sim, particularly the fact it's lightly traveled and doesn't have tons of industry and yards.

It's nice sounding to let players have feedback, but reality is they ain't game designers. There's a reason why some of the greatest ones are known for taking wild and weird risks with their titles that often alienate players at release.

 

We don't have a tier 4 GEVO? Only the Skyhook Games ES44AC, and DTG BNSF ES44C4 (Which is what I assume you meant)

Also a Tier 4 ES44 is an ET44.

 

You're right Mich, it's a game at the end of the day, not an industrial simulator to train engineers on. Just like MSFS is a game, not something you train airline pilots on. Games need to be "fun" more than "realistic."

It's not like it's ONLY trains that games don't get 100% accurate. Can you imagine war games where you spend 90% of your time sitting around on guard duty doing nothing? How about you have a racing game where you're the guy who just changes tires? That'd be totally "realistic" but not very "fun."

Then you have the issue of "fun" for whom? Everyone has a different version of "fun" to them.
Freight people, Commuter people, Conductor mode people, Passenger mode people, on foot exploration people who like "easter eggs"...and even in a group there are sub-groups.
Freight has shunting and driving.
Commuters come in local stoppers and intercity long runs.
Keeping all those people "happy" is often impossible.

 

...God I suck at GEVO names!

Thanks though!

 

NP, but back to your original point, it does make me wonder why people keep asking for the same freight routes we've seen in other sims in the past. Most especially with how TSW handles things just wouldn't work well or those routes were already done to death.

Donner Pass is an example, it wouldn't be very, well exciting. Double track main where you are notched up to 8 looking at nothing but pine trees for most of the route. Yeah you have the scenic Donner Lake at the summit, but its a double track freight main thru the mountains, with no local industries, and TSW really cant handle a full yard of cars so Roseville would see very minimal action. Only thing that would make it "REMOTLY" interesting would be snow fighting duties, but I don't think TSW could make that work aside from scenarios.

It's still a shame that Clinchfield didn't do that well, because it was at least somewhat special.
-Single track main with passing sidings.
-Multiple branch lines with coal loading
-Interesting era (1970's)

It really just needed cleaning up and post release loco DLC with more period accurate cars and it would of been a nice 70's era route.

 

WRT access:
We have been told that a major problem with US operators, other than Metrolink and Amtrak, is that since Covid (and the UP lootibng incidents), the Class 1s no longer provide access like they did, and research surveys have become impossible.

However, the US has lots of Class 2 and 3 railroads, as well as heritage lines, running classic traction every day, and who may well be more eager to make a few pennies.

 

That makes sense.

It's always a big problem when any developer is based a significant chunk of the world away from a sizeable portion of their userbase.

As a night owl, I've always found myself engaging with US-based support staff more, but I know people with work schedules that really don't line up with the available time zones where it's easy to get someone. I've done customer support for a game studio before, and I've seen the difference it can make just having someone one or two timezones behind who will still be there when the folks at HQ clock out..

 

An open, honest discussion of licensing and licenses would be refreshing. A whole lot of "rumors" but very little meat on the bone. Is the reason for not doing certain things truly licensing being denied? Or not bothered with? Or impractical? As you said, Candace there's not a lot of boots on the ground for DTG in North America so that can just be problematic in itself.

Routes were done here, so it can't be just that. Someone came out to to Antelope and San Bernadino in the last couple years. Those trips were made to do research. Those licenses are in place. So anything piggybacking on what was established there can't be just "licensing:" per se.

I get a lot of the Class 2/3 are smaller and not "corridor" routes with lots of traffic and commuter content like San Bernadino or MBTA. But maybe an honest discussion of what DTG IS looking for in particular would be good for the community? I know it opens up the Pandora's Box so to speak, but it's necessary at some point to clear the air.

If it's something as simple as "this sells" or "that doesn't sell" it'd be good to know.

 

i wasn't necessarily thinking of DTG recreating the Podunk, Dogpatch & Western as a route, so much as the small RR serving as resources for rolling stock research and sound surveys. UP won't let DTG examine an SD45? Well, the PD&W might.

 

Valid point. Same equipment (at least underneath the paint.) An EMD engine will sound like an EMD engine.
I was hoping it would open up some more retro routes with older stock that was available in museums and smaller lines but phased out of the bigger ones, but there seems to be a reluctance to do anything older than late 1980s, and even then it's third parties not DTG.
I get that it is what the "kids" want, and it's easier to build modern routes you can physically walk to not 50 year old photographs, but it also means less access to modern routes and equipment so it's a double edged sword.

 

Agree. Given how well riviera line was received, I think Hudson line would be an excellent choice for the US. One of the most scenic passenger line in the US.It's busy and had DLC options. Metro North -P32AC-DM with Shoreliner IV ,Amtrak- P32AC-DM . P32-playable services 93, M3A/M7A- 130 playable, 26 Amtrak,f reight estimated 12

 

As an American, I really appreciate the fact this thread exists. I always expected that the focus of TSW would be European, but it's great that DTG is reaching out to the U.S. this way. So thanks, Candace, and here's to the future.

 

TSC already covered parts of the Hudson route line. Not saying you have to do all TSC lines in TSW, but DTG already thought it was worth doing under the other game banner. Unlike say some of the freight routes that don't translate well from TSC to TSW, I think this is right up TSW's alley. Urban commuter routes, with NYC already being done several times. There's arguably from what we've gotten and sales just as much if not more potential US content demand for urban commuter lines here as there is in the UK and Germany.

It's a given we'll see more US commuter content. There are twice as many people in the United States vs Germany and UK combined and most TSW players like urban commuter content. This would be a good suggestion for the next step up the Hudson.

 

Still, if the Water Level were to be done, I would prefer to see it in its four-track heyday, the 1950s with NYC diesel streamliners.

 

And Cary Grant and Eva Marie Saint as NPC's in passenger mode.

 

The Metrolink and MBTA stock sound very good and were recorded from the real ones.

 

You make some interesting points but aren't there some inconsistencies? For instance, if most players don't care about correct sounds, or other "rivet counting" details, then why did DTG tell us that they aren't doing more US freight because of the difficulty in getting correct sounds? Shouldn't they be pumping out DLC after DLC of the "popular" freight routes that everybody has heard of but, as you correctly point out, don't offer any new gameplay ideas? Why would it matter to them what the "hardcore" people thought about their sounds?

Also why would DTG even bother to have a new US community manager, ostensibly to help the "hardcore" players who do things like frequent a forum, make their voices heard, if they were just going to make whatever sells the best anyway? Why would any of our concerns here even matter to DTG, with the exception as you say of "game-breaking" failures such as CTD and textures?

I tend to believe that DTG does have an interest in what the hardcore players are saying, because they probably sell the most to these people, and also because the best way to get a casual player to buy more is to have a game that seems to be getting a lot of the details right, which would also generate positive reviews here, and in other spaces.

 

Because the hard core players tend to dominate the forums and reviews.
It's not all or nothing.
DTG doesn't ignore say the 20%.
They give them 20% of their attention.
If that's the case (can't speak for DTG) then that's normal and proportional for a business.
In fact, for actual workload it's probably far more attention given to the louder customers because that's the nature of business.
The quiet customers just buy and enjoy their product quietly. Hardly any work post-sale.
The saying in the business is "you spend 80% of your time on the 20%" although I've heard it said as 90/10 too.
It's in that range. Depends on the situation, business, etc.
I think it's just human nature because I've seen it in business but also in government, in project management, in leadership, etc.

 

Maybe we should change the term for perfectionism from "rivet counting" to "casting shade".

Your first sentence is my own approach also, but the second is subjective. That part makes it more fun for some people.

While I confess to rolling my eyes when someone rends their garments while lamenting that a small cosmetic issue makes the game "LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE!", if you're specifically making a sim game, it's important to listen to both the casual gamers and the more hardcore simmers, because you're trying to cater to both audiences. Then you have to find that ideal balance, which I don't envy anyone trying to do.

 

I have also heard a saying that goes, "You make 80% of your sales from 20% of your customers."

I think that there is an important reason why details matter. I will never actually drive a train. When I play TSW, I want to know that the experience is reasonably accurate. If it is mostly imaginary, what is even the point? Then we could play any game.

But how can I know if it is reasonably accurate or mostly fake? It's the details. You can use the Santa Fe pack as an example. No I'm not particularly bothered if the color isn't exactly right. But there is a litany of mistakes that people have pointed out. Would I have noticed all of these on my own? No. But it speaks to a poor quality job overall. Now we have reports of players driving a train up the summit at 40-50 mph. So, should the trains be doing this? I would say probably not. We can surmise that, since HIS got so many of the "small" details wrong, they have probably missed on the big stuff as well. If everything for TSW was made as poorly as the Santa Fe pack, there could be very little assurance that there was any relation to driving trains at all. It would be all fake, and pointless.

I might also say that the whole idea of "casual" players in a game like TSW is a distinction without a difference. If you are playing a train game, then you are already occupying a niche. The more hardcore players, a niche within a niche, perhaps. For the true casuals, Thomas, or Metro Rivals.

 

Wrt to trains in the pack reaching the summit at 40-50mph, i'm not sure that's a mistake.

Especially for their high-priority trains (like TOFC) they wanted those moving as quickly across their network as possible and would assign adequate horsepower to ensure it happened. One nice thing is that the HIS timetable actually lists the horsepower/ton, so you can see which runs will be faster/easier, and which will be more of a slog.

Honestly my absolute biggest beef with the pack is the non-functional HOTD device and lack of suspension updates. The cosmetic errors are less of a problem for me, personally.

Finally, i just straight-up don't believe DTG when they say the community being up-in-arms about inaccurate sounds is what caused the end of US freight development. It sure hasn't stopped UK or DE development despite many similar complaints about sounds.

I think DTG lost a significant amount of organizational knowledge on the US side that was never replaced, and the sounds kerfuffle was an easy excuse to throw in the towel on something the remaining devs just weren't that knowledgeable or passionate about.

And, listen, this all happened during the height of COVID disruptions, so i do have a bit of sympathy to the underlying causes, but they've had plenty of time to fix it in the years since. The fact that they've hired a North American CM gives me the tiniest bit of hope, but i need to see them deliver on the development side before i'm willing to say US/NA freight is back.

 

Agreed about the sounds and US freight. I have always thought, and often said, that it was more of a red herring.

As far as the speed of trains in the Santa Fe pack, that's very interesting. It would have been something worth mentioning in one of the articles for the route over the 18 months we were waiting for it. However, even if correct, that just makes the point stronger that there is no way to know what is accurate in this pack, and what is not.

 

Regarding the speed on the hill:

Speed is related generally to horsepower per ton. Depending on which route (shallow vs steeper) and how much hp/ton you can get pretty good speeds. All just depends on what you're pulling.

I think irl it's "advised" for Eastbound (uphill) trains to be 2.3 to 2.5 hp/ton at a minimum. Preferably more if you have it, but irl railroads are trying to cut costs so "less is more." Freight loads aren't usually about speed, so if you can get by with less, it saves money.

I saw a reviewer playing with 3.5 hp/ton.

I'm sure having 40% more horsepower available would get you up to much higher speeds than is normal in real life.

Especially on the flatter parts (especially if you're going westbound where it's a shallow run up the hill from the North)

 

I think there's an online map that shows the existing routes.
Do you mean adding new route ideas?

 

Like this?
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/train-sim-world-1-6_1138345#3/29.69/-58.18

 

It does really show about how much of the US DTG has covered, which isnt much...


Though it also shows the size of the US as a whole too. Because even comparing it to TSC (Which does has some routes not on steam) the coverage is still very sparse.(EDIT: I accidentally cut off Florida from this map)

 

When you can only go 30-50 miles with a good service pattern and with license the options get really small

 

This. People forget how much geography plays into it. Yeah, the US gets fewer routes/content compared to Europe, but the country is also absolutely massive, so the contrast ends up looking even worse when you put the coverage maps side-by-side. Both things can be true at the same time.