I'm from this area, so I thought I'd offer a little feedback having recently purchased it. Naturally, this was a priority purchase for me since recently getting back into Train Sim. I'm always very careful about what I buy. That goes for anything. I do a lot of research. My disposable income is not exactly massive, so I like to maximise what I get for what I spend. Because of my connection to this route and having travelled it more times than it's possible to count, I decided to throw caution to the wind and buy it without caring too much about what it contained. I just wanted to see the area in the sim. With hindsight, I can't help feeling some pangs of regret. Permit me to expand on that. Firstly, one of the scenarios is bugged. The one where you have to collect the broken-down train from Cardiff Bay. There is an issue with the signals in that scenario that has you stuck at red, either leaving Queen Street on the way to Cardiff Bay to collect the train, or, when having collected the train and heading back out of Cardiff Bay. It's broken, and that, really, is unacceptable. And since coming back, it's not the only route I have found with buggy scenarios. Secondly, the route length. I have admitted that I did not research this route, but that doesn't mean I didn't make some confident assumptions that turned out to be quite wrong. Yes, sure, my fault, but can anyone honestly claim that this route offers value for money? With a straight face? Firstly, I had assumed that this would, for certain, go down to Barry Island. I was staggered to see that it didn't. This is astonishing. It's really not far and, well, it just makes no sense for it not to and really, it should be going one past Barry and to Cardiff Airport. Secondly, is where it decides to terminate at the other end. Ok, Coryton makes sense. It's the end of the line, and of course, you can't go further than Cardiff Bay or Penarth, but Radyr and Heath High Level? Really? I mean, come on. Having driven it a few hours now, I had a feeling that I could not put my finger on. An unfulfilled feeling, and it wasn't until I saw someone else describe it as a "demo route" that I realised what it is. It's exactly that. It feels like a demo of something to come, and like a demo, it leaves you empty and ready to buy the expanded version when it comes out. It leaves you needing more. It's just a glimpse of what it should be. This route should, at the very least, go way beyond Radyr and up to either Treherbert, Aberdare or Merthyr Tydfil. Failing that, it should at least go up to Pontypridd, and if it does terminate at Pontypridd, then the route should also go beyond Heath High Level and up to Rhymney. Failing that, then the route should be going down the mainline through Newport and then up through the Welsh Marches line through Cwmbran, Pontypool and to Abergavenny. The route in its current form offers little, and for 30 quid, well, it feels insultingly overpriced. It feels like a free demo for a product that will be released in a much larger state for 30 quid. Compare what 30 quid can buy you on other routes. Compare the length and the scenery quality of this route to something like Blackpool Branches or Preston-Carlisle. The Riviera Line? Also, 4 car sets. Now, I admit, in the last couple of years I have not actually used this network anywhere near as much as I have in the rest of my now advancing years, but I have never ever, not once, gotten on a 4-carriage set to Radyr or Penarth or the Bay. Never. I don't ever recall even seeing one, but yet, it seems that every train I try to drive is a 4-car set! The platforms are not even long enough for them. I have, however, gotten them down to Barry and the airport, which this route won't let me do...... One positive I will say is that the stations are actually quite nicely done. Good enough for me. I'm sorry, guys, even with my bias and excitement for this one, it's left a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth. This feels like it should be a 15 quid early access buy for something that comes later. I'm so terribly disappointed with it. It really needs expanding, and what is there now needs fixing. I reckon I have spent about 3.5 hours on this route, and I feel totally done with it. That's £8.57 per hour. Hmm. I would have gotten more for my money, per hour, pottering about Cardiff, nibbling and drinking the day away. I also see that Just Trains will release a Pacer add-on with a new timetable. Well, this route offers so little that I can't see myself buying it to add to it. It feels like this should have been in the route as part of the package anyway. And why do I have to pay for another pacer when I already have one included with the Blackpool Branches line? Yes, I know, the doors are different, and it probably uses more modern headlights, but in the end, it just feels like a livery add-on with a timetable. Why does it even need another timetable? Why can't you just swap the trains within a timetable? This had the potential to be one of the best, most interesting, and varied routes ever for Train Sim, but it feels just so bland and unfulfilling and woefully pitifully short. Anyway, there we have it. A little perspective and feedback from someone very familiar with the area.
There are plenty of threads & comments around this route so I’m not going to rehash it all. All I will say for the purpose of visibility, is that I really hope DTG do not gauge the interest in network routes based off Cardiff City. It is an extremely poor execution of what a network should be.
Not saying the scenario in question isn't broken, but I managed to complete it by not using the safety systems. It's more than just a livery. The interior is different. The model has added antennas for newer cab radio systems, a GSM-R panel has been added. TPWS, DSD. This new timetable is based on 2019, although unsure what the older one is
I'm inclined to agree. It could and should be so much better. It is an excellent choice of area, but it is a fraction of the size it needs to be. I mean, I should at least be able to do end-to-end runs on a small network route.
I agree it would have been better going further but I still enjoy it. There are plenty of self contained services within it and apart from a couple of instances it seems pretty well put together. I have spent several hours on it and I paid full price and I feel It has been worth it. I would never go as far as working out an hourly rate that will lead to disappointment. I would like to see it extended or a larger Valley network produced in the future.
I like it for what it is. A perfect route if I just fancy a short drive or don't have enough time for a longer one. I also use it if I fancy role-playing as a conductor as well, which it's a good route for. Could it be better? Yes, it's not perfect. Far from it, in fact. But for what it is, it's not a bad route imo.
As you say, that doesn't mean it isn't broken. Besides, I shouldn't have to keep running it in a beta testing fashion, trying to figure out how to bypass the fault. I just want to be able to play and enjoy what I paid too much money for. It's broken. As for the Pacer..... I hear you, and I don't really mean this to focus on Just Trains, but in a more general sense, but how many times are we going to have to pay for what is essentially the same train, though? When I buy a flight sim aircraft, I tend to get many liveries and variants and/or selectable differences included that I can use anywhere at any time. And those are so much more complex than these trains that they cannot even be compared. In train sim I have to buy "that route" to get "that 66" to show in "that other route" over there in "that livery" at "that time". It's absurd and feels extremely price-gouging and anti-consumer to this cynical old fart.
Your last point I commented on in another thread but I 100% agree. It used to be you bought a £10-15 add on for a route & you simply had another train to run & in turn you got a busier timetable. Now though you’re having to buy a £30 route, £15 add on for it, then in that add on you need a £20 add on, £11 add on & other £30 add ons to get the ‘full’ experience. JT’s newest pack will require over £100 of content to actually get the full experience out of it. That’s after you buy a £25 route then the £13 add on. Skyhooks latest cargo line came with around 10 services over I think 3 routes, a third of that content requires owning a separate £25 route, £13 add on & £20 add on - all to use the £13 add on you just bought. Personally I think we’re well over the line of getting more from your existing collection, when the £12.99 packs actually require anywhere from 2 to 10 times that cost to actually fully utilise them.
I think you have articulated very well there what is difficult to see in any way other than deliberate and cynical.
It's currently on sale on PS for £18 or bundled in, what I'm seriously considering, TSW6 special for £63. Is it worth it? I think so as I have none of the routes.
OP nailed this micro, or as I have referred to it, sawn off runt of a, route perfectly. I get that DTG wanted to experiment with a Network style route but they could have done a bit more in terms of mileage. Especially as a significant portion of any run is spent running at 15 MPH between Cardiff Queen Street and Grangetown (or Ninian Park). As a minimum it should have gone to Barry Island, Pontypridd and Caerphilly or ideally at least one full length run up the Valleys, probably Rhymney. There's also the quality issues including the disgraceful decision by the EP to sign off on the incomplete Cardiff Central station, specifically no concourse or frontage.
IOW is a smaller amount of overall Mi but it is a complete end to end route, so even if it was only 5 stations, it also has no DLC that you need to add into it to get any extra and besides (iirc) the GWE it has no other DLC that have a dependency on it Sorry if that's ot but the IOW22 is a personal favourite of mine (top 5 contender imo for best TSW route)
Because it exists in real life or used to exist at some point. Should it not be made at all? They couldn't release it for free because there are still changes to the 3d model and livery. Others already answered the timetable question, but if it doesn't run in the year the current timetable is set, it would be unrealistic to include it anyway
I know well that it existed. I had to ride the dreadful, draughty, bone-shaking, squeaking, screeching, little rot boxes far too often . No one said it shouldn't have been made at all. Flight sim developers don't have any problems offering such changes to their models as variants included in the original cost of the purchase. Also, let us not pretend that making a few changes to the model is the same as building the train from scratch because it isn't. This package, one way or another, should have been part of the original route in order to offer some value for its price in the first place. Either that or the route should have really been built to a standard where buying this package felt worthwhile. On this subject, the way content is structured and sold in this sim is as anti-consumer as I have ever seen. I have no issue at all buying good train models with nice systems, but I dislike buying them over and over again. It should be much more like buying an aircraft in flight sim. I pay a developer for a model, and with that model, I get variants and updates and many liveries and I can use that anywhere. Now, obviously, there are differences between flight sim and train sim and the some things must be done. However, there or things that need not be different at all. The routes should be the routes, and the trains should be the trains. That way, I wouldn't have to buy 3 routes, 2 of which I don't want, in order to get the train from Routes B and C to run in Route A. I could just have Route A and the Trains to run on it, which also runs on any other route. The way it is at present is deliberately obtuse and very cynical. You're buying stuff you don't want to get things you do, and you're having to buy what you do want multiple times. It's absurd, let's be honest.
The above supports my plea to ' debundle ' trains from routes. Sell the bundle at a price lower than the sum of its parts. We have several copies of the same red German control cars, locomotives, several Class66 Diesels, Mk1 carriages, every one of them with different features, different bugs though they essentially are the same model. And ' old ' models do not get updated to the latest features because that is too expensive and time consuming for the ' teams ' at DTG.
Exactly, I completely forgot to mention the absurdity of having different versions of the same train with different bugs because updates have not been bothered to be applied to them. It just all adds to a completely incoherent product offering that is very confusing and often.... broken.
I’d have liked it to have ended at Pontypridd and Caerphilly or Ystrad Mynach or in the other direction Bridgend via both ML and VOG and Barry Island. And why are some trains using platform 4 at Cardiff Central all valley line trains use platforms 6,7 and 8
It would certainly help those who struggle with the pronunciation of some of the stations on the route. Assuming they don't use "text to talk" to generate the voice.
I remember the old Amiga Train Driver 3 used the built in text to speech feature for announcements (by the time I found the programme was running with an emulator on PC). You had to type in the names phonetically and when the announcements were made, sounded like a Cylonic monotone from OG Battlestar Galactica.
Yes, yes and yes. Locos and routes should be separate, it is so obvious. Amount of routes I got that I did not really want, just to get one loco to appear as a layer in another route I actually play!!!
Some of the replies on this thread help to explain why we're rinsed so much on the price of DLC. When some people passionately defend DTG for charging 15 quid for a couple of locos which are basically the same as something they've already paid for barring a few tweaks and different liveries what's the incentive to price things more reasonably? Lest we forget, DLC for TSW2020 and TSW2 is still being sold at the same RRP as it was at launch despite now being ancient by videogame standards. That's what we're dealing with.
We are all responsible though unfortunately. The business model is clearly working, which means we are all still spending!
Tsw2020 and 2 are already being sold at a lower price compared to tsw3 and beyond. They also get massive discounts during sales so if you are patient, you can get them for really cheap
Station announcements only say Llanfairpwll instead of Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.
I wouldn’t be so sure. I was once at a station called puynfahpoubynlophisheadoffdigminsterpopnbubblesohwaitimscottishwtfmikiyvplypuou and I’m sure the bloke on the tannoy was talking gibberish.
Well said by the OP. This is one of the only things I've bought for TSW where I walked away disappointed. It's not due to low quality of what's there, it's the missed potential to make this a bit more complete with some full runs and it could have been a gem.
Wrong on all counts, at least on XBOX. TSW2020 and TSW2 DLC is still listed at the original RRP. DLC for later versions is being sold for more. Important distinction. And on XBOX at least discounts on older DLC are extremely rare. We’re frequently told that this is the fault of MS rather than DTG, but there’s nothing stopping DTG from just lowering the retail price of older add-ons. Dropping the non-sale price of older games is the norm on the XBOX store, but obviously not palatable for DTG.
Unfortunately true, but only because if they were to use the full name, they would have to start the announcement 2 stops before.
The name originates as an early gimmick to draw attention from tourists passing through. In fact, there are two villages - upper and lower. Fun fact - in the movie 'Barbarella' the name was a suggested password for a meet.
Wasn't that the film Duran Duran got their name from? Or have I misremembered that? Entirely feasible.
