High Iron Simulations Thread.

Unless it introduces some sort of Run 8 style gameplay, I can't see how this short virtually unknown route ticks any any LAMPOIL boxes.

 

Exactly, the old Cornish China Clay for Export route for TSC, Doncaster works, and IOW (crucially with the steam railway) all were short routes but had a lot of operational interest by being more than just A-B runs.

 

How much do you want to bet the GP35 that will come with the route is gonna be the old DTM model that has been used to death on TSC?

Anyway Ill update the OP for the route.

 

This Hayden branch copper mine concept I do like, an 80’s route with SP and roadside industries. The sort of route I enjoyed in TSC. More please.

 

Well, DTM has to start somewhere bringing his own, latest TSC model into TSW, doesn't he?
Just like HIS' other subcontractor promising us the GP60?

Who will do the tracks, scenery and assets? Cane Creek could provide quite some I reckon.

About the route, this seems to me another 'getting your bearings, testing the waters, learning the tools' kind of effort.
Pretty obscure, remote operation, safe for starters trying to grasp the high art of producing 'the ultimate in realism' in simulating moving copper ore.

We've had loading and unloading operations on the original Cumberland route, and it was quite tedious with 100 or so coal gondolas IIRC.
I don't have Cane Creek but hopefully the trains and operations here are more manageable, giving old SP GP35 were running their final miles there.

 

So breaking down rolling stock and such, here is what to expect.

So the EMD GP35, Southern Pacific had 160 ordered, with an additional 22 for Cotton Belt (SP's subsidiary). Though around the timeline this route is set, 61 got rebuilt to GP35R's, with an additional 5 rebuilt without turbos, though I dont think these will appear on the route.
SP's GP35 roster were 6520-6679, SSW's being 6500-6519, 6680 and 6681, with the rebuild's being 6300-6361, the non turbo charged units being 4160, and 4200-4203.

I cant find any actual photos of SP's GP35s on this branch, but here is 6588 on the Globe Branch also in Arizona, 1978.

As far as actual photos on the line, I can only find 2 from the SP era, and they were late photos, both featuring GP40-2's with slug pairs.



Googling Magor Ore cars didn't really pull up much, I did find some photos someone took from the current operatiors of the line and came across these. They are labeled Ex-SP but not 100% sure these are the Magor built cars or not.....

 

The Anode flat car I also had issues finding exact SP ones as well, the only one I could find is 53ft one that was on the Globe Branch mentioned above, was ex-SP but went to the Arizona Eastern after the SP sold its branches, I cant find the 56ft car mentioned in the article.


The caboose is a simple SP Bay Window Caboose, C-30-4, nothing too fancy about it. The SP's ones were numbered 1235-1269.

 

Oh I would kill for a remaster of Doncaster works in both TSC and tsw

 

It’s heavy and slow haul so if it was longer I think people would get bored.

 

Well that’s not our problem

 

You see an historical representation of a short line mining RR as a problem?

 

My main hope is that it doesn't end up getting a negative reception based on things like badly rushed and bodged locos, leading to a false impression that people don't want routes like this, with this kind of gameplay.

 

Personally I think its a refreshing route and type of gameplay and what the game badly needed.
It’s going to look good too.

 

I'm guessing if done well this route might have a certain "Railroader" style appeal, it's just as things stand with the very much A to B nature of gameplay in TSW, it will take a miracle to make it really interesting. I fired up Cane Creek a couple of weeks ago and the scenery still blows you away but in the end I just blew through the speed limits to get the job done.

 

The scenery is the big draw in Cane Creek and I think they’ll be able to add a lot of those assets to this new one too. To us in England desert scenery is very novel.
I don’t mind Cane Creek as I find juggling the throttle and brakes interesting on the many declines and inclines to keep under the speed limit.
I’ve got a good feeling about this new dlc and so refreshing to see retro operators like Southern Pacific come into the game. I’ve actually got a model of that loco in the SP livery! Looks good.

 

No but I do see a problem with people getting bored with longer freight routes with slower trains ( aka people stopping us from getting some really good routes)

 

Oh I see what you mean. I think as this is HIS first actual route they are probably wise to take baby steps to begin with. Hopefully once they’ve got the hang of it we’ll see longer routes like Feather River Canyon come to TSW.

 

Yeah, I mean I also just have a interest in the type of cargo included, we really just need to hope it’s not like their first pack

 

Amen, they cut corners on that for sure. If they’re building the whole thing from the ground up let’s hope they show more pride in it.

 

I think personally variety is the spice of life. Being able to drive a slow USA freight train through a desert, driving a Sprinter on a 20 minute stopping service in Wales or driving a high speed train between two German cities is one of the big appeals of TSW.

There is something for most people.

I have my favourite routes but it's good to have the variety for when you want something different.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Bernardino_train_disaster

 

Technically i like those kind of routes too, since i can enjoy all types of routes.

But i didnt like the first impression of HIS with their first TSW release.
Too much disappointment by feedback who called the content rushed. Missing traction motors on the 3 axle bogie..,

So yes, is somebody expecting me to spend money on unfinished content?

 

Actually think this could work pretty well. The highlight of the Santa Fe pack was the timetable, so i trust them to get the operational side of things correct within the confines of TSW.

A short, straightforward route is pretty smart for a first try.

The rolling stock is the real question mark imo. The freight stock additions sound good, especially if they can layer into future projects. Maybe DTG will FINALLY fix freight car substitution!

The GP35 is a fantastic addition if done well (please let us use it in place of the GP38-2 on other routes if we choose), BUT the locos in the Santa Fe pack were incredibly disappointing.

Gotta hope building from scratch goes better than working from DTG's existing models.

In any case, this is the most buzz i've seen on the US Freight side in a long time. Combined with some of the questions in the survey i'm ever so slightly optimistic.

 

With a short line like this detail and quality of track and rolling stock should be paramount for maximum immersion. Nevertheless, this should definitely not qualify as a full price route

 

Execution's everything for a concept, easy to say "This sounds great on paper", but then fumble the execution of it. Nobody would argue for example that any of the Rivet routes were bad ideas, the controversy has always been on if they'd actually pull them off well.

Sometimes you can also get the opposite, a idea that sounds bad on paper only to be executed to perfection and blow everyone's minds. I would argue that Niddertalbahn's actually a example of that, like, it's not terrible, but it really isn't anything to write home about in concept. But the sheer detail of the route and included stock makes it such a must have experience, even for someone like me who doesn't like these short, one trick pony type routes.

 

Think the problem is most of the stock doesn't really have a use outside of this route in general.

-The GP35 is too old to layer into most other freight routes, and an SP one doesn't really belong anywhere else in game except backdated on the few routes it theoretically can.

-The ore cars were assigned to the line and went nowhere else, and I don't even know what other branches ran copper ore cars like the ones on this route, after the SP sold the route, they were still in use on this route.

-The flat car may have use as a manifest car, if the anode parts were removed and allowed other cargos to be loaded onto it.

-The acid tank car is probably the most valuable car on the route, given it gives us a different tank car to use aside from the DOT-117 one that has been on ever other modern route.

-The caboose is another one that may have a use as well. The modern day Sagus Local, that runs on part of the Antelope Valley Line, uses ex SP Bay Window Caboose' as a shoving platform, so the C-30-4 can be used for this, though one needs to set that up with formation designer or free roam with the UP GP38-2.


-There is also supposed to be some more stock for manifest purposes, so I expect at least 1 SP boxcar, which should at least add to the 1980+ era of stock usable.

 

Dug around and found a 1984 SP employee timetable with some grade profiles and notes for the Hayden Branch, though they dont cover Ray to Ray Junction, or anything past Hayden.

 

Funny enough, there was a small section pass east of Winkelman going to Christmas, AZ. But got abandoned by 1960s and the tracks are completely removed. Can't really say I blame HIS for doing 20 miles on the other side of the branch, since between Magma and Ray Jct doesn't do a whole lot but scenery views for 30 miles straight.
(Edit: Which now I see there was a line south of Hayden operated by San Manuel Arizona, but looks like that's not been operated for some time now)

But, it's still an odd choice to do a GP35, guess they have to start somewhere to do a new loco that isn't in TSW yet. Still, will have to see how this is gonna come together in the end, for better or worse.

 

Interesting, I suppose this is the American equivalent to the sectional appendix?

 

You can use this site to get elevation maps if it helps

 

That track chart seems to indicate we are in for a 10 or 20 MPH crawl along this route, unless some liberties are taken with speed limits.

 

There are some 30MPH bits along this line