Do Dtg Tell Us About 'upcoming Content' Too Early?

Not wanting to start a another genral moaning thread.. rather a discussion on this one subject..

Do DTG tell us about 'upcoming content' too early?

Rich coming from the guy who constantly is constantly 'moaning' about DTGs poor communication, I know but hear me out on this..

Take the GWR remaster, or Tadami line or anyother relevant example you can think of..

Is half the problem that we are told these things exist far to early I their life cycle..

If we had no idea the GWR remaster was in the pipeline.. 0.. no hints anything..
Would people be posting on here wondering where it is? Grasping at the speculation straws? And generally becoming 'upset' that it's taken a long time*

If insted DTG only waited until the product was an actual product with the QA team before they told us..
What does the community loose in this situation.. nothing beyond the ability to speculate about something we have limited info on because we simply wouldn't know!

Whats to gain from this..
Assuming DTG used this time to produce a quality product that works day 1 (bold i know)
-But the Devs wouldn't have the pressure of the community constantly wanting updates, wondering where it is, genral speculation..
- could take time to ensure everything is perfect (due to the above)
- When we hear news about a new product the Hype train would stay on its rails because (presumably) its not far away.. due to it being a real thing rather then an idea on a drawing board
- less new bugs slip through so maybe more time for old bugs?!
-we all get a better product
- we all moan a bit less, and the genral atmosphere around TSW improves!

Makes sense in my little brain.. and im interested to know how the community feels..

Would you rather not know about DLC until its actually nearly ready?

Or do want to know about stuff that is 2-3-4 years down the line ?


*100% not a criticism towards Liam or the remaster i appreciate this is a 1 man passion project just an example

 

Someone should tag the Simtrack studios in this post and quote the posts where they were upset people were questioning the continued existence of the 104 all that time ago. And look how that aged from 1-3 months to 2+ years.

Still campaigning for DTG to just tell us this is dead and put us out of our misery

 

I definitely don’t want to know what’s coming 3-4 years down the line. That’s far too long. Look at Tadami Line. We’ve had tiny bits of info with this route since it was first announced. A very long period where we heard absolutely nothing on the route. Routes should be announced when they are moderately close to being finished. Not when development has just started….

 

I'd rather see some percentages or stages rather than zero information.
For example, This Route is 60% complete, That Train is 10% complete, etc.

 

Absolutely agree with the OP. It's ludicrous that projects like the Santa Fe pack can be on the Roadmap for one and a half years.

And who knows when the Czech and Portuguese routes will materialize, if they ever do.

I would say 1 to 2 months advance notice before release is sufficient accompanied by actual screenshots of completed wip.

 

Id rather it be like the days when you was browsing in the local game store.... Oh look mario 2. Nice surprise.

 

I can answer the OP with a simple, "Yes".

Once again I don't know whether it's the excited kids mentality at DTG, but really rushing (gushing?) to announce something new as soon as it gets a glimpse from the 3P is absurd. At the least wait for proof of concept or that the content has made it to late alpha.

I would rather have heard about Tadami then been able to buy it four weeks later, than the ridiculous never ending wait. Same goes for some of the TSG stuff like the 420 and 232 should just have been kept under wraps until ready to go.

 

Mate, don't!!!

The best days of my life, going into GAME (or whatever it was called then) and checking out the NES shelves. Didn't know if the games were new or been out a year and a half and didn't care. If they were new to me, then that was good enough.

 

Driving yourself crazy over content that has been announced (too early) achieves nothing except grey hair.
Either it will be released, or it will not, it does not exist until it has been released, so I just don't worry about it.

 

I used to be in there regularly, also in the mid to late 90's WH Smith, Virgin and HMV all sold boxed games too. Every month or two there seemed to be a nice new military combat flight sim to try and it all worked on the hardware of the day without the performance issues we see now. Well I say that, but still remember having to mess about with config.sys and autoexec.bat files to get enough conventional and extended memory in DOS to run them.

 

Well i might be wrong about this, but it seemed like devs knew the limits of the hardware they were developing for better back then and worked accordingly. Plus no patches, so you better not include too much broken stuff. Nowadays you can just rush stuff out, knowing you have the luxury of updating it later.

 

No People are just too damn impatient.

Hentis

 

Just remind me when the Tadami line first appeared on road maps again?..

While I agree on a broader sense yes people are too impatient as a whole.. I do also think DTG make a rod for their own back.. by saying stuff is 'nearly ready', 'coming soon', 'on the roadmap' ect.. when surely they know its nothing more then a design brief..

Apologies for the poor annology..
Im all for full scale promotion.. but once the "cake" is "cooked".. they know how to make it.. it tastes good.. you can buy it soon...

At the moment they seem to start selling the cake once they decide on its ingredients..

 

Problem is if they stop announcing stuff there's no distraction from the mess that the game is in...

 

Nothing is announced too early. People are either too impatient or we are not given regular updates on what's been announced.

If they announce something, then it's their responsibility to keep us informed of its progress.

 

Solving problems and releasing new features simply takes a lot of time on both sides. Anyway, I'm otherwise quite satisfied with TSW.
The only thing I still want is to add more Dutch, although my patience for that is vast compared to other people's problems with DTG for the designated game TSW, where it's been going on for a while now.
but on the other hand, communication should be better, but that the DTG staff also make themselves heard more to the players, which might also be helpful, not that reading threads would always be enough, which I don't mean in a bad way.

 

Tadami is one special case where you can clearly see that the route is a prototype. Apart from that, other addons announced recently have pretty good completeness in screenshots, so I think DTG do understand that they released too early.

 

How can you see that the route is a prototype?

 

You're upside down Antony.

People are impatient because stuff is announced a year or more in advance with no intimation as to when it will be released. This would test the patience of Job.

Several projects were announced at the beginning of September, 2025, including Portuguese and Czech routes. More recently a German route and HIS's Hayden Branch.

I suspect we'll be waiting a long time for any of this content and people's patience will be sorely tested.

If I'm wrong I'll be happy to post a mea culpa.

 

As an example, what’s happening with the 90? I feel that was announced months ago and has now dropped off the radar.

 

Got a feeling Tadami is over two years ago.

Not to mention the biggest dud of all - the PFR Class 104. That caused a genuine stir of excitement when first announced but it seems DTG and ourselves were taken in by a screen dump from a 3D modelling programme.

 

Nope, announced Feb 2024 (I looked it up).

 

I hoped and expected after the whole rush hour fiasco that dtg had learned their lesson, clearly, but not surprisingly, they haven’t.

 

Fair enough, but it will be over two years soon!

 

Most 3rd partys are either small, split the team to different projects or encounter problems.
Best example i have is the number one dlc i and many others are waiting for. The Br 420.
1. Announced as a Tsw 2 addon for munich.
2. Problem: Munich is unable to get any additional content due to performance.
3. Waiting years for a new fitting route.
4. Adding more to the pack due to TSG being TSG and new possibilitys across multiple addons.
5. Most to all is done by a single person of TSG also doing stuff for DTG with higher priority.
Conclusion: The loco originaly planned for Tsw 2 now unexpectedly releases for
Tsw 6.

For Tadami and GWR remaster, i think its more of a "players want new countrys and remasters", so we announce something way too early to silence the voices.

For DTG, i think they announce stuff not too long before release, but for some reason the early feedback they do receive by doing so mostly remains unnoticed.

 

Aces of the Pacific, Lucas Soft Battle of Britain and MS combat flight simulator? They were the days. I remember going into GAME and coming out with real physical copies of games in actual boxes, and they had real manuals too! The Talonsoft series of strategy games Western and Eastern Front II were great and the manuals so rewarding to read. Then one day I went in and there was Rising Sun about the Far East War with Japan and it had an actual full battle roster of British forces and everything, now that would be divided down into endless dlc, I didn’t even know it had been published, what a lovely surprise that was.
It would be nice to get some good surprises like that in TSW instead of big disappointments like the 104.

 

Not possible now though is it

Unfortunately.

Everything requires fanfare and social media presence well in advance.

 

I'm glad Stamford was announced at the beginning of development so I can talk to you guys a bit on how it's going. Without spoiling anything, of course

 

I feel like its a double edge sword at times.

On one hand, its nice to know that something is in the works, even if it is a bit out so you know, yes this is in progress...

On the other hand, its the long waiting game, especially when content gets push back from 1 TSW to another. Or the fact the time it takes to make said content and it still ends up being terrible.

 

Depends how long the development takes. It's already 4-5 months since it was announced. I think that's too long already.

 

Couple of years ago the moaning was related to lack of information about upcoming DLC and poor communication on the roadmaps and lack of visbility. Now it's visible, its too much too early.

Not happy with the state of the game, but can't really throw shade at DTG on this one. Dawned if you do etc....

 

I can think of one reason to announce early: Letting potential and actual third parties know that a particular route is spoken for, as it were, to avoid accidental duplication of effort.

Other than that, I just take announcements as a statement of intent and don't sweat over them otherwise. That just shortens your life. I was disappointed that the James Watt telescope launched nearly 15 years later than initially planned, but I didn't stress over it. The thrill when it finally went up (and worked!) wasn't lessened at all.

 

Just to give a bit of perspective, development for Morristown began in February. Not everyone was on board at that time, but that's when the project started. It released at the tail end of September, so you're talking 7-8 months of development time. Do the math.

 

You're misunderstanding. The point is the time between announcement and release, not how long it takes between the start of a project and the release. Of course the latter can be many months, everyone recognizes that.

We were not aware of Morristown until shortly before release, which was fine. If it had been announced in February, we would have been waiting 7 months, not knowing when it would be launched.

 

So is the issue that you know what is coming up? I'm confused. I have other things to say, but I want to focus on that point first.

 

This is why I made the post..
It is a double edged sword unfortunately..
Yes it is nice to know what is coming.. its cool to be able to follow the development so to speak..

But what I personally find annoying is when we find out about a DLC, its overhyped (when at that point DTG must know its not due out for a long time)
The hype fades.. people wonder where it is.. it gets to a point people start reaching at speculation straws.. or we end up with a GWR situation where Liam is showing a product that "looks" ready to go.. but is seemingly stuck in DTGs relese vacuum..

Or even worse.. we get a DLC.. after waiting and being patient.. it has issues/bugs.. then we never see an update for it.. or communication goes silent (Morristown).. (not aimed at you personally more at DTG)

Again i thought it would make an interesting topic of discussion.. because both sides are technically "valid" imo

 

Personally, I don't see a problem. They've been announcing and announcing, and now you're just sitting there waiting. If DTG had collected money immediately after the announcement and then dragged out the release, that would be bad. But they just keep promising to release something without asking for anything in return.

 

Maybe the time has come to totally separate the roadmap between stuff DTG are doing themselves and can be held fully accountable for and stuff they endorse as 3P content they want us to know about. Two roadmaps, or one and then a list of 3P stuff and where to get info.

DTG appear to me to be coordinating more announcements and updates for third party developed DLCs than their own content. This is confusing for me.

For their own stuff, I think they're track record on timing is ok, but maybe even then, the need to hit a deadline has trumped the need to ensure quality for DTG in the past. I have read a lot on here about stuff being released too early too. Work for DTG on timing all round I reckon.

 

Despite all the excitement, I'll only believe it when I see the DLC listed for sale on Steam.

Wasn't the plan to release the 420 with the Frankfurt DLC? That didn't work out. So I'm really not sure it'll actually be released in the wake of Stuttgart and Heilbronn. And TSW7 is coming out in just under nine months.

The 232 seems to have completely disappeared from the radar (announced years ago, but removed from the roadmaps some time ago).

To answer your question: Partly, yes. Some things are announced years in advance and then get pushed back or removed from the roadmap. Other things, however, are kept secret and suddenly appear unexpectedly, and then they're released shortly afterward.

However: Not writing anything is also boring ; in some cases, one should perhaps only include a listing in the roadmap when it is truly clear that a release can also take place within the timeframe of the map.

 

You say that as if that's a binary option, when you got to bare in mind that the game historically has often had cases where we'd only have routes detailed as "US route" or "UK loco" as close as two weeks before launch. "Wanting more" doesn't automatically translate into "We want to know about it years ahead of time". Especially when often said long reveals just lead to massive periods where we don't learn anything about it anyways.

I actually good example of what I'd would be what JT did with the pre-release cycles for both WCML & Blackpool. Those got revealed quite a bit ahead, but importantly they would actually provide semi-regular updates. Shows that it's actually making progress, plus it allows them to give focus and deep dive on things that would normally get overlooked during a truncated reveal cycle. That's welcomed, revealing stuff ahead of time only to go silent for months or years at a time isn't.

 

Were they the ones that included Battleground Gettysburg etc? Spent many hours on those, just nothing like it to compare today.

 

They certainly was the good days. No reveals or previews, don't even think I had any expectations back then. When A game come out I didn't know what to expect.

 

That's because it was announced for TSW4. Getting on towards 2 years, yes. Which is enhanced in silliness by the annual TSW numbered releases.

 

Yes Vern that was the series. No now it’s all flashy graphics and no content.

 

I remember being particularly wicked and leading the Confederates to victory, Battleground Shiloh too.

 

Personally, I'm a big fan of announcing projects that are in development. I want to be an observer of the development process. I'm interested in watching the project progress, seeing working screenshots, and listening to the developers' comments. How long a project might take to reach completion is another matter entirely.
I'd rather know something is in development than constantly ask DTG, "Is this in their plans, and when will we get it?"
I eagerly await roadmaps, open seasons, and release announcements!

 

No. It isn't too early for me from announcement to release. For example I still haven't stopped waiting for Skywind remake of Morrowind, that I've known and followed its development for over 13 years now, or like I waited some 6 years for Early Access release of Black Mesa, also after following its development and looking at new pictures/screenshots like every single week. The only thing that is missing from the TSW projects are photos and videos shared more often, like they were shared during the development process of the mentioned earlier projects.

 

cough cough, santa fe pack

 

I think this early is fine. we get shown the progress and development as it's made. the problem I see is more the finished products laying at DTG or wherever that apparently get tested and whatever for half a year to a year and then finally release with many bugs. whatever happens there is more problematic. most of the studio's are not big companies and thus the releases take a bit. but it's not like there is no news at all. instead of showing what is to be released later I think there should be a better way of the releases and quality assurance of patches done

 

Anyone remember the BR 232 from TSG ?

I agree that they should keep things under wrap unless they are SURE its going to be released. DTG are so far so capable with it, I cant remember a DLC they announced and then moved away. But for 3rd party, it's getting a bit silly at this point.