The vision is actually good with gangwayed units (they'd all be extinct otherwise). In any case, drivers are always sat on the left side where the controls are and are usually focused on what's ahead of them. Most platforms are also on the left. They usually look well ahead and are always on the lookout for danger, known as "defensive driving" (I think that's the term used) so that they can react in time to the likes of signals and speed restrictions. The real danger to a train is often what's directly in its path, which the driver is usually able to spot in enough time to appropriately react.
I'm glad we're getting another Electrostar route, it's been long enough. In the early days of TSW and TSW2 it seemed like the only train we ever got. We definitely needed more variety but going so long without them was an overreaction I feel. Some of us younger players actually quite like them, and aren't immediately repulsed by their presence.
With regard to through gangwayed units, with the demise of the buffet car (!) such as the BEP and BIG variants of the Mark One SR EMU’s retaining through gangways allows the catering trolley to get through when one is provided.
I once boarded a 465 and when I got to the 4th car and realized there wasn't any seats available, I then had to get back off the train to access the last 4 cars. As I stepped off the train into the pouring rain the driver closed the doors and departed. The gangways might seem pointless but they are not. It was even worse when you had a 4 car 465 with 2 466s joined together on the back of it.
Yeah I remember the days of the catering trolley. Every time I boarded a 465 you would often hear the catering not available on this service message.
I mean routes where the Electrostar was the primary traction. I don't count the 377 appearing in WCML South. It's basically just a layer to flesh out the timetable, I doubt people have spent much time actually driving it. I admit I completely forgot about Mildmay, I guess in my head I treat the 378 as being outside the core Electrostar family. I still maintain that we've been deprived of some good routes in the south east in recent years because of the community's apparent disdain for the Electrostars.
….. I guess but one reason why the community doesn’t seem to like them very much is the fact most look and drive the same, with no challenge
I think most modern trains fall into the same category. They are like the twist and go mopeds. I think people just got sick of southern routes.
The driver does have a clear view obviously otherwise the trains wouldn’t pass the health and safety requirements. And you can gurantee the unions wouldn’t allow them to be used by its members. Perfect example being the southwestern arterios. Lovely big clear windscreen driver sits in the middle of the cab with a lovely clear view no gangway. Yet they have been delayed in service due to a problem with the windscreen which was raised by unions.
Obviously it don’t and has its own reasons. Take the SWR arterios perfect example of problems a “entire windscreen” can have
At the end of the day gangway cabs offer much better utility for passenger operations & the restrictive vision doesn’t really make much difference in the grand scheme of things. Trying to judge that from the perspective TSW gives you isn’t the same as it is in reality. Though even in TSW you get an idea of the perspective, you see that the field of view opens up significantly after a few meters, anything the driver needed to respond to inside of that cone of vision would like have a similar outcome in a full cab anyway. What issue could occur within that field of view & what realistic action could be taken to provide anything more than a negligibly different outcome? If anything the gangway cabs (particularly on Electrostars) likely afford better stationary driver awareness on account of the additional CCTV. Personally I’d rather drive with a full cab in game, but the reality is that gangway cabs offer utility both ToC’s & passengers would miss if taken from their usage scenarios.
100 percent having operated trains with full view and obstructed view cabs in real life I can tell you from real life driving experience you can adjust very easily and still do the job safely regardless.
Yes. It’s also worth noting the position of the driver relative to the windscreen. How far back are you on nosey full-view express trains like the Pendolino or IET’s compared to the ‘restricted view’ units where the driver sits almost on the window sill. The field of view could be surprisingly similar!
Not really even when you sit as far forward as the seat allows in a cab with a gangway/restricted view your field of view won’t be the same as a “nosey” train you still have the obscured view to the right of your eye line.
At the end of the day the job of the driver is to drive the train. The train follows rails so the driver only needs to look forward and can see everything that needs to be seen.
One thing I would put forward as a suggestion, is the possibility of the driving camera to be moved to match that of the 375 on TSC, or at least the one I see on people's YouTube video with the AP enhancement pack with the driving position zoomed back slightly and the small side window in view. I feel the driving position of the current Electrostar in TSW is slightly to forward for my liking. Or maybe I'm just talking rubbish though!
Signals Speed limits Obstruction on the track Level crossing PTI want me to carry on. You might think sitting playing your little computer game it’s only just pushing a lever and sitting back. IRL I can assure you it is nothing like you think it is.
There was a question on the survey specifically about cameras and one option was about adjusting field of view
Back to the topic on hand. I am guessing this will be the first release for TSW 6 in 2026 if so certainly looks to be a good start to the year.
What would be nice is a fully customisable cab camera where we can move it where we want, like most other sims. We used to have seat height adjusters in the early locos which was neat, don't seem to get those anymore.
Route knowledge. Rules and regulations. Sectional Appendix including local instructions. Fault finding on the train including basic mechanical and electrical knowledge. Just to add a few in the mix from when I worked for ATW and was able to get a couple of days out (official) on the footplate.
If they could manage in the days of steam with near zero visibility then I'm sure they can manage now. Sitting in the driver's seat of a 375 in rl you can see everything thing you need to. If you couldn't then they wouldn't be in service.
Which is what I said above if you bothered to actually read. There is a difference asking a driver for a look in the cab in your case and actually driving the train irl which you clearly don’t do. How about you take the advice from those of us who actually do the job and accept when you get things wrong get corrected and be thankful to actually getting the correct information.
Exactly but I didn’t want to confuse them with to much information vern as clearly the armchair experts know more than us who actually do the job and we must be wrong and they are clearly right because they can drive a virtual train from a keyboard and mouse lol. hope you a good vern and have a lovely festive period
What if you need to do a wrong direction move. Signals are then facing the other way. I think I am done with you here you clearly think You know it all and are just one of these gen z who never learn to accept when wrong. You also used to many letters in your name it seems and need to rearrange a few of them. Enjoy driving your virtual trains I will do the same and also driving them irl for a living.
Agreed. Watched a YouTube video of the route earlier after someone mentioned about cab ride videos. Certainly a good mix of driving opportunities in the route and a good mix of different stock. Thankfully I appear to have all the layer requirements that will be required so can enjoy the timetable full.
Lol if all train drivers have your attitude, I think I'll stay off them. I see enough road rage as it is, don't need rail rage as well.
Now that I think about it, what's the difference between a 10 car networker and a pair of Voyagers? The latter will have one set locked if there isn't a member of staff on board but the former wouldn't be. Why is that?
That reminds me of an amusing tale I heard about the REPs... When the 4 REPs were propelling 1 or more 4-TC sets, quite often there would be a slight delay to the controls in the leading cab. Often, the driver would go up from shunt to series and not get much of a response so would knock it straight into weak field. Then all of a sudden, the 4-REP would kick into action with a rather firm jolt, knocking over cups of tea in the restaurant-buffet car and ruining the suit of anyone who wasn't a regular commuter and "braced for impact"!
All those who defend the tiny aperture windshields are simply guilty of rationalization. I'm certain drivers would always prefer a full cab view as they got with loco hauled trains. And a full windshield is " clearly " much better for those playing the game. The restricted view cabs are purely for the convenience of the rail companies. They could certainly build emus that have leading cars with full view windshields and still provide walk through saloon cars.
Well I believe the question posed was “what’s the point in gangway cabs” or something similar, not which is better. I don’t think rationalisation comes into it considering there are objective pros & cons - it’s not like it’s just a cheaper method which only a ToC or stock manufacturer gets something out of. I also reckon there are indeed drivers who do see the appeal in them by way of having on board crew being able to access the entire train, or even themselves not needing to exit the train, to get to another section of it, should the need arise. Never mind getting into the natural increased protection they give from They certainly can & do make full cab MU’s but those in themselves have drawbacks in the way of not fitting into platforms, or not having enough capacity & then you introduce compromises in utility and safety. There are pros & cons to both sides, in terms of the game itself, yes we don’t really get any of said utility since the player isn’t especially put out by needing to exit the train, rather they are mostly detracting from gameplay experience, but then I’m sure many of us don’t want to see fictional trains.
Don't understand the " not fitting into platforms ". Trains wouldn't need to be wider, if that's what you mean. Also did you read where I said just the lead cab would need a full view windshield. The whole train would be fully accessible to drivers, other staff and passengers.
Platform length. Take a 700 as an example of your suggestion & they’re great for the routes they’re built for, but you then have a fleet of 12 & 8 car sets that can’t be used interchangeably with a wider fleet & can’t be used on various routes due to length. On the other end of that extreme you have the 465’s & 466’s which are too short & often get thrown together in bastardised sets such as 4+4+2, all of which you can’t walk through. On the other hand you have a fleet of various Electrostars that you can run as short as a 465 or as long as a 12 car 700, route dependant. The only reason gangway cabs are still used is because you have operators serving regions full of routes that have varying passenger levels throughout the day. You can have a 12 car set 375 that can go out as 1 train at peak & then split into 3 for the midday vs a 700 that you’ll need at least 24 cars for, to achieve the same number of trains.
because a voyager is a longer distance train and could run for a good while before stopping at a station. Networkers are like buses they start stop start stop and run in local routes where stations are nearby so if assistance was needed can be giving rather quickly.
700s can be used on many routes even with a shorter platform the same as a 377/375 can form a 12 car train and stop at stations which only take on an 8 car train thanks to SDO
Yes, SDO being famously uncontroversial among crews. In any case we’re now just rehashing points from earlier.
In fairness, gangway cabs have been a feature for a very long time now, certainly on the Southern right back to steam days (4-COR for example), where the view from such stock would still be an upgrade over any contemporary steam loco. The operational advantages of allowing access throughout the train can't be overstated either, meaning that facilities such as catering, or in the past luggage doesn't have to be doubled up for each portion.
