I think most modern trains fall into the same category. They are like the twist and go mopeds. I think people just got sick of southern routes.
The driver does have a clear view obviously otherwise the trains wouldn’t pass the health and safety requirements. And you can gurantee the unions wouldn’t allow them to be used by its members. Perfect example being the southwestern arterios. Lovely big clear windscreen driver sits in the middle of the cab with a lovely clear view no gangway. Yet they have been delayed in service due to a problem with the windscreen which was raised by unions.
Obviously it don’t and has its own reasons. Take the SWR arterios perfect example of problems a “entire windscreen” can have
At the end of the day gangway cabs offer much better utility for passenger operations & the restrictive vision doesn’t really make much difference in the grand scheme of things. Trying to judge that from the perspective TSW gives you isn’t the same as it is in reality. Though even in TSW you get an idea of the perspective, you see that the field of view opens up significantly after a few meters, anything the driver needed to respond to inside of that cone of vision would like have a similar outcome in a full cab anyway. What issue could occur within that field of view & what realistic action could be taken to provide anything more than a negligibly different outcome? If anything the gangway cabs (particularly on Electrostars) likely afford better stationary driver awareness on account of the additional CCTV. Personally I’d rather drive with a full cab in game, but the reality is that gangway cabs offer utility both ToC’s & passengers would miss if taken from their usage scenarios.
100 percent having operated trains with full view and obstructed view cabs in real life I can tell you from real life driving experience you can adjust very easily and still do the job safely regardless.
Yes. It’s also worth noting the position of the driver relative to the windscreen. How far back are you on nosey full-view express trains like the Pendolino or IET’s compared to the ‘restricted view’ units where the driver sits almost on the window sill. The field of view could be surprisingly similar!
Not really even when you sit as far forward as the seat allows in a cab with a gangway/restricted view your field of view won’t be the same as a “nosey” train you still have the obscured view to the right of your eye line.
At the end of the day the job of the driver is to drive the train. The train follows rails so the driver only needs to look forward and can see everything that needs to be seen.
One thing I would put forward as a suggestion, is the possibility of the driving camera to be moved to match that of the 375 on TSC, or at least the one I see on people's YouTube video with the AP enhancement pack with the driving position zoomed back slightly and the small side window in view. I feel the driving position of the current Electrostar in TSW is slightly to forward for my liking. Or maybe I'm just talking rubbish though!
Signals Speed limits Obstruction on the track Level crossing PTI want me to carry on. You might think sitting playing your little computer game it’s only just pushing a lever and sitting back. IRL I can assure you it is nothing like you think it is.
There was a question on the survey specifically about cameras and one option was about adjusting field of view
Back to the topic on hand. I am guessing this will be the first release for TSW 6 in 2026 if so certainly looks to be a good start to the year.
What would be nice is a fully customisable cab camera where we can move it where we want, like most other sims. We used to have seat height adjusters in the early locos which was neat, don't seem to get those anymore.
Route knowledge. Rules and regulations. Sectional Appendix including local instructions. Fault finding on the train including basic mechanical and electrical knowledge. Just to add a few in the mix from when I worked for ATW and was able to get a couple of days out (official) on the footplate.
If they could manage in the days of steam with near zero visibility then I'm sure they can manage now. Sitting in the driver's seat of a 375 in rl you can see everything thing you need to. If you couldn't then they wouldn't be in service.
Which is what I said above if you bothered to actually read. There is a difference asking a driver for a look in the cab in your case and actually driving the train irl which you clearly don’t do. How about you take the advice from those of us who actually do the job and accept when you get things wrong get corrected and be thankful to actually getting the correct information.
Exactly but I didn’t want to confuse them with to much information vern as clearly the armchair experts know more than us who actually do the job and we must be wrong and they are clearly right because they can drive a virtual train from a keyboard and mouse lol. hope you a good vern and have a lovely festive period
What if you need to do a wrong direction move. Signals are then facing the other way. I think I am done with you here you clearly think You know it all and are just one of these gen z who never learn to accept when wrong. You also used to many letters in your name it seems and need to rearrange a few of them. Enjoy driving your virtual trains I will do the same and also driving them irl for a living.
Agreed. Watched a YouTube video of the route earlier after someone mentioned about cab ride videos. Certainly a good mix of driving opportunities in the route and a good mix of different stock. Thankfully I appear to have all the layer requirements that will be required so can enjoy the timetable full.
Lol if all train drivers have your attitude, I think I'll stay off them. I see enough road rage as it is, don't need rail rage as well.
Now that I think about it, what's the difference between a 10 car networker and a pair of Voyagers? The latter will have one set locked if there isn't a member of staff on board but the former wouldn't be. Why is that?
That reminds me of an amusing tale I heard about the REPs... When the 4 REPs were propelling 1 or more 4-TC sets, quite often there would be a slight delay to the controls in the leading cab. Often, the driver would go up from shunt to series and not get much of a response so would knock it straight into weak field. Then all of a sudden, the 4-REP would kick into action with a rather firm jolt, knocking over cups of tea in the restaurant-buffet car and ruining the suit of anyone who wasn't a regular commuter and "braced for impact"!
All those who defend the tiny aperture windshields are simply guilty of rationalization. I'm certain drivers would always prefer a full cab view as they got with loco hauled trains. And a full windshield is " clearly " much better for those playing the game. The restricted view cabs are purely for the convenience of the rail companies. They could certainly build emus that have leading cars with full view windshields and still provide walk through saloon cars.
Well I believe the question posed was “what’s the point in gangway cabs” or something similar, not which is better. I don’t think rationalisation comes into it considering there are objective pros & cons - it’s not like it’s just a cheaper method which only a ToC or stock manufacturer gets something out of. I also reckon there are indeed drivers who do see the appeal in them by way of having on board crew being able to access the entire train, or even themselves not needing to exit the train, to get to another section of it, should the need arise. Never mind getting into the natural increased protection they give from They certainly can & do make full cab MU’s but those in themselves have drawbacks in the way of not fitting into platforms, or not having enough capacity & then you introduce compromises in utility and safety. There are pros & cons to both sides, in terms of the game itself, yes we don’t really get any of said utility since the player isn’t especially put out by needing to exit the train, rather they are mostly detracting from gameplay experience, but then I’m sure many of us don’t want to see fictional trains.
Don't understand the " not fitting into platforms ". Trains wouldn't need to be wider, if that's what you mean. Also did you read where I said just the lead cab would need a full view windshield. The whole train would be fully accessible to drivers, other staff and passengers.
Platform length. Take a 700 as an example of your suggestion & they’re great for the routes they’re built for, but you then have a fleet of 12 & 8 car sets that can’t be used interchangeably with a wider fleet & can’t be used on various routes due to length. On the other end of that extreme you have the 465’s & 466’s which are too short & often get thrown together in bastardised sets such as 4+4+2, all of which you can’t walk through. On the other hand you have a fleet of various Electrostars that you can run as short as a 465 or as long as a 12 car 700, route dependant. The only reason gangway cabs are still used is because you have operators serving regions full of routes that have varying passenger levels throughout the day. You can have a 12 car set 375 that can go out as 1 train at peak & then split into 3 for the midday vs a 700 that you’ll need at least 24 cars for, to achieve the same number of trains.
because a voyager is a longer distance train and could run for a good while before stopping at a station. Networkers are like buses they start stop start stop and run in local routes where stations are nearby so if assistance was needed can be giving rather quickly.
700s can be used on many routes even with a shorter platform the same as a 377/375 can form a 12 car train and stop at stations which only take on an 8 car train thanks to SDO
Yes, SDO being famously uncontroversial among crews. In any case we’re now just rehashing points from earlier.
In fairness, gangway cabs have been a feature for a very long time now, certainly on the Southern right back to steam days (4-COR for example), where the view from such stock would still be an upgrade over any contemporary steam loco. The operational advantages of allowing access throughout the train can't be overstated either, meaning that facilities such as catering, or in the past luggage doesn't have to be doubled up for each portion.
I used to use this route many years ago to go fishing on the Medway at East Farleigh. I'm pretty sure it was EPB stock on the line at the time. I've stepped away from buying DLC recently but will have to make an exception for this.
Says a lot that when people were expressing concern about performance the devs attempted to dismiss the topic, saying it was off topic (which is an insane claim) and nothing to do with them and effectively told people to shut up, albeit less directly and a bit more politely. But then when people had a massive discussion about the positives and negatives of gangwayed units, which is way more off topic than performance, they don't say anything...
The problem is, what more do you want them to explain? They did reply about the subject, but there is only so many responses someone can give about the same topic before they are repeating themselves again and again and it gets unnecessarily repetitive. Further more every thread about new DLC has the same topic about performance coming up (which is most definitely important), but there are only so many answers a dev can give before they repeat themselves. The larger picture is performance seem to be a core issue that is the main responsibility of DTG. The developers can only respond about their own product. And in this thread they have made the effort to reply to the performance questions and haven't avoided them. It turns from asking questions about performance, to completely hijacking the thread and offering nothing more then unnecessary back and forth negativity. The discussion about gangway doors was going back and forth because it offered a array of opinions from forum members. The subject of performance hit a brick wall because there is nothing more that can be added about it. Anyway, that is just my opinion on the subject. I'm not saying I am right, or wrong for that matter, but you've got to recognise when a subject needs to move on when there is nothing more that can be said on it. I care about performance very much, but I know at heart it's a core issue at fault and that frustration needs to be aimed firmly at DTG.
The Devs are also prominent forum members and were a well respected part of the modding community before becoming devs. They're aware of the issues having also been part of the people raising them previously. If they can't understand the worries we have, no one can.
Yeah, I do side with them. Because they've explained themselves and there is no more to it than that. All you're doing with these type of replies is trying to antagonise a reaction which is a bit childish. People can make there own minds up on that one, I respect most people's opinions when they offer something constructive. But anyway, I don't want this thread to become hijacked with non constructive nonsense and for it to get closed.
how quickly players forget all the free mods the devs have done for the community. You have to shake your head sometimes. I think they have given us enough explanation and just have to hope DTG can fix the issue
