I apologise in advance if this topic has been posted or discussed before, but I haven't seen any threads regarding this subject... Over the life of the game, I've noticed some fairly good rolling stock that has been created, but hugely underutilised in terms of playability. The Class 700: The Class 700 was a very welcome edition to the game and padded out SEHS with playable services and AI layers. On closer inspection of the Class 700 it is a really nicely modelled train that some effort has gone into creating (the interior and PIS are brilliant). However it's playerbility, whilst good on SEHS, is limited to runs between Dartford and Rainham. Outside of that it layers onto ECML, North London Line, and the GOBLIN line as AI, with limited playerbility on the ECML with ECS moves into the sidings (All of which I do appreciate). For such a decent unit it does seem to have limited gameplay experience. Now, I don't want discourage DTG from making units for lines even if they have limited runs. But I would like for there to be a larger plan for rolling stock usage. For example, when initially developing a unit like the 700 that runs on a route like SEHS, when moving forward and developing new routes, have a larger plan for its inclusivity. For example, "oh we already have a 700, we could revisit the BML, and run it from London Bridge to Brighton and the 700 already exists giving us time to develop other rolling stock to accompany the route and pad it out whilst also giving the players a chance to enjoy this item of rolling stock" The Europheonix Class 37: Another great example of underused rolling stock is the Class 37. Again, time and effort has clearly gone into developing and rebuilding the Class 37 to modern standards, but it's layering abilities are yet again very limited to MML, and SEHS, when in fact it could have been layered onto several other routes? Why has it essentially been abandoned in terms of layerbility? It just feels like an incredible waste of a perfectly good locomotive. Are there any other examples of this happening?
It was a crime the 700 not being put on the BML because all the old excuses flew out the window when a modder did it very successfully with no frame rate hit whatsoever. The only place that was really busy in that sense was Victoria and 700’s don’t go there. All the other places it appears are minimal usage and you can’t really drive it either, mostly just hanging around one station. Perhaps a 2 minute depot move in a mod. I agree DTG should have made more effort with it, they’re fast enough to layer every conceivable train on German routes. I don’t buy all these excuses about frightened to touch BML because like I say a modder did and it worked a dream. I think the real reason was time and cost, but when a private person does it for nothing in their own time DTG should rightly feel embarrassed. I think many console users would even have bought that as a paid dlc anyway, would have better that some of the junk dlc released.
The ROG 37 also has 2 light engine moves on the GOBLIN. I get your point though, It would be nice if more layers were considered for some of these packs. IIRC DTG have said they won’t be touching the BML timetable due to performance concerns. Layers are the lifeblood of the game, keeping it interesting and pushing up purchases that wouldn’t necessarily have happened otherwise. Let’s hope that they can find ways to continue with the joint gameplay pack/loco and route/timetable upgrades that they have done with the XC170 and are supposedly planning for the 805 and SN171
I'd like to see some of the US freight stock filling in some of the known industrial sites on the NEC and NJT routes. I know they don't do it because consoles would stroke out, but I personally find the absence of idle freight cars noticeable. I've suggested in the past that they just do low-poly models for the more distant sidings and industries, like they used to do in the MSTS days to achieve the illusion of full, distant yards.
The ROG 37 should have features on ECML as it’s an (admittedly infrequent) visitor between Retford and the south and utilises the curve to Retford Low Level which would also have created a different path and extra game play.
I was just thinking this morning how both the 700 and 465 are underused. I wouldn't object to the next DTG route utilising both of these with a logical journey pattern. I like SEHS but having service which just forms the middle part of a journey I find unfulfilling. The 465 definitely needs it's own route in my opinion. I would like to see the class 66 get a bit more use as well!!
The 700 needs the sounds sorting but yes it is tragically wasted on the SEHS bus stop corner. Agree re the 37 too, an iconic classic UK diesel which should be in all variants and liveries going back to BR Green. Most of the BR Classic collection is under utilised and I don't really count the odd rail tour. There are several routes which could host the Class 31, 33 or 40 as the primary traction but no one has bothered.
A decent length route to run the diesels on would be nice. I know we have NTP but the lighting isn't great and the timetable needs a revamp in my opinion. North Wales coast would suit a lot of these as we've often said or something like St Pancras to Leicester for the Peaks, just need a smokey class 127.
The 66 is the single most common layer in the game! If anything, it needs pulled back and new freight locos need to take over.
was going to say. you had me going As many have Mentioned so far, I would put the 700 on top of the list
Frankly I don't think it's far off on the 66 comment. Often the "cargo" you see in a "mixed" timetable is just 2 or 3 runs or just "empty moves." Just like when a timetable is full of "stock moves" of empty passenger vehicles constantly. Does seem a bit of a waste just to say it's a bigger timetable than it is.
Remember consoles also exist. Just because it runs fine on pc doesn't mean its fine on consoles. They couldn't just do a pc only timetable. Also performance issues still exist on the route itself. There are still places on the route where fps tanks
I know consoles exist that’s why the SEHS route and others has a TT light with reduced traffic just for them! It’s not hard to make 2 TT’s, don’t just leave off an important train that is a major feature of the route. DTG could have added the 700 for consoles and just reduced all services a bit to compensate. Look at the variety of stock on German routes. The modder concerned got rid of the unnecessary SE services on divert. I know you’re a professional apologist for DTG by trade but you are wrong there is no location on BML where the addition of 700’s causes “fps to tank”, none at all. For evidence I have my own deep experience of this route on my gaming laptop, it’s actually smoother now than a lot of other routes - as smooth as a babies bottom on the 700 relevant sections. The only place it’s gets really busy is Victoria and 700’s don’t go there. So perhaps stop trotting out the same tired old excuses for DTG?
locobilly, We don't even have to suppose what "would" happen in that situation. You have real world examples like the Frankfurt route where console players were offended they had a different more limited timetable. Leaving a loco off altogether avoids that criticism. You don't know what you don't have if no one has it.
Right? Every time I hear that BML has terrible performance and it can't be touched I think: "Wait, but frame rate is much worse on WCMLS, how can this be an excuse to refuse updating route that actually could benefit from it quite a lot, it already is one of the best UK routes in terms of playability". It just shows how little they care.
Another brilliant example right there... The Met Cam Class 465 (my favourite train in real life funny enough!), is really well built and put together. Unfortunately the majority of its runs are on stopping or semi fast services to and from Gravesend and Dartford. There are a few summer season Cannon Street to Ramsgate and vice versa, but outside of that it has very limited usage. Completely agree that the 465 and 700 deserve their own routes too. A South East London Network style route would be appropriate for the 465 (Charing Cross - Sevenoaks & the Hayes Branch would be a good contender). In terms of the 700 I think DTG could make great use out of it by revisiting the BML, but instead use London Bridge as the terminal instead of Victoria so we'd get a fair run in the 700.
The Class 700 also appears in September as a single static piece in Aachen Rothe Erde (probably being delivered). I also hope a similar even if just static piece or two gets to appear in the upcoming Rhein-Niers-Bahn. I understand this wouldn't be gameplay so slightly different sentiment from your original post, but that's a nice part of the realistic experience too.
You are over complicating a simple matter, forget the more recent routes that is not a fair comparison as BML has been around a long time and has low grade scenery and lighting which impacts fps much less. A better comparison would be another older route such as SEHS - a route that has a huge range of rolling stock on it compared to BML and was given a lightened TT to allow console users to enjoy that variety. It would be the simplest thing in the world to rightfully add the 700 (based on this game being an actual simulation and not a fantasy rendition of the route), and reduce some of the Southern/GatwickX services for the console players, à la SEHS. We already know it’s brilliant for pc players. What do you actually want - for the game not to be improved? For routes not to have real life trains on them? Strange.
But your "solution" removes "real world" trains for console players only. So doesn't that make it worse? Granted you on a PC get what you want at the expense of others and you can pretend that's for the "greater good" but it's not if you're screwing the majority of players (console) so you can get the 700 on only PC. What about just substituting it in for something else already on the route? Then there's no more layers in total and both console and PC could see it equally.
You're saying that as if other routes didn't already had separate timetables for consoles and as if BML was the worst performing route out of all we have currently and that simply isn't true. Removing some AI layers that are barely visible also seems an option considering this is what happened to SEHS. Yes, because obviously, class 700 is running random Southern / Gatwick Express / Southeastern services. How can one even come with idea like this, I could agree if it was train from the same company, but what do you even want Thameslink to substitute into? Also keep in mind that if we were to get class 700 layer we could get rid of Southeastern diversions that were placed in the original timetable, so that would also free up some space. You just sound as a person "If I am to have less content because I play on console then it is unfair, I want everybody to get less instead", and this attitude is one of the reasons PC players dislike having to deal with console players.
People already complain about having two or more timetables, so you're advocating more of them which will guarantee more complaints. Didn't say it wasn't POSSIBLE. Just that there's pros and cons of doing it, and right now the "cons" seem to be worse than the "pros."
What's the major complaint with having multiple timetables? You have one with more rolling stock with recent DLCs, and you have the original one so you preserve your completed journeys, so that is a bit weird to complain about, especially if it gives more variety into the game. The other problem, regarding consoles, I will say again, reducing services is much better than not getting any timetable at all, especially if those are barely visible during the run.
I honestly don't care, but I think the multiple timetable complaints center on a) confusing and b) you have a whole new timetable to "complete" for people who like to check off boxes. I disagree that "more for some" is always better than "less for the many." If only PC players get access to them... can you understand why the console players would be upset to be left out? Now I do understand that you could always "turn off" the 700 layer, but we see how well that suggestion went over with Frankfurt. I'd suggest putting it on the suggestion board for a future SEHS "remaster" in the future when the whole route can be opened up, cleaned up and looked at. Or...alternately is there a way to make it "substitute" for an existing train already in the timetable? Didn't it replace tee the 465? So it'd make sense you wouldn't have BOTH of them in the same timetable, so just have the option to swap it in for the 465. Then you don't need a new timetable. You don't need to redesign the timetable. You just need to toggle the "tags" in the game files to allow you to replace one with the other.
I’d say the Class 33 is by far the most under utilised. Its base route is 25mph so can’t stretch its legs. I think it is included on at least one other route but not much of a run, certainly not end to end. Does the WSR Class 52 add onto Diesel Legends? Another underutilised loco!
Mostly the fact that if I buy a new train, I want to see it when I drive the route, but if it's isolated off in its own timetable, like say the nuke trains on WCML, then I never see it unless I specifically choose that route (and of course it never appears in Journey mode, which always uses the base TT). I can see new timetables if they reflect different eras, like the two on Left Rhine, but not at all if they are contemporary.
I may be going crazy, but I could’ve sworn in either TSW 4 or 5, I saw CSX freight running on the Valley Bridge from the old CJ tracks going up past the EWR station stop. Haven’t seen it since so either I’m misremembering and saw this in real life or it was in and has since been removed.
The 33 gets a railtour on SEHS. The Western is the primary diesel in Diesel Legends and does most of the Journey mode runs.
AI freight was/is present on some of the scenarios on NYT. Freight layers were also accidentally activated on Series S for a period of time, including static stock and one timetable service. At the time I was on Series S and did not experience any crashes while running the full-fat timetable, even with the added freight (except at Sunnyside which was never very stable on Series S in any case). So this does show that added freight is possible on NYT and probably other routes as well, at least for PC/Gen 9. But eventually the added freight was removed from Series S after an update to NYT.
I guess I wasn’t crazy after all haha. I saw it on one of the scenarios and thought it was cool to see it on the appropriate line. For those that know, is there much freight that still runs on the NEC? In real life I usually only see it on the CJ line or other lines that pan off from NEC. But id assume there is some freight that still runs late at night when the tracks aren’t as congested with commuter rail.
