Given all this content is published by DTG, time they banged some heads together. Either co-operate to give customers the best experience, or withdraw from the 3PD programme.
So again to clear this up as mentioned on stream Following the B2C addition of the 170 and voyagers which meant the Timetable was WIP throughout testing we have taken the decision to only include completed, tested and released content in our TT's going forward and this is at the point of production hence the 90 is not included in the 805 TT's and we have no plans to include it in Trent Valley. There no issues between AAS and ATS as third parties, purely a development decision to ensure that timetables will function correctly
Dress it up how you like it’s still a very poor decision from a punters view. Unlikely I’ll purchase anything from AABS anymore.
We can therefore conclude that you are currently working on the Trent Valley timetable or you will before the release of the Class 90 !
As per the leak when Matt started the stream too early Trent Valley just started beta testing on PC. So its pretty much done except for some smoothing out.
Shhhhhhhh Seriously though, while it goes through Beta there's not an exact time it will release, so don't worry, we'll announce it when it's ready to go.
So overall I was very impressed with the Class 805 preview from the passenger timetables on both B2C, & WCMLS, to all the detail that's gone into the Class 805 itself. The sound set was very sharp and sounded really good. No other developer has ever got the accurate high pitch revs before and I really noticed it in diesal mode. And the electric mode was as equally sharp and accurate. I do have some constructive criticism though... I am very surprised that freight has been sidelined in the way it has. The Cargo Line volumes were designed to be utilised and implemented for routes that use them such as WCMLS. I did feel that freight felt somewhat neglected in that regard and am surprised that outside of static stock that the Cargo Lines 2 & 3 haven't been used, given that they are a very common sight on WCMLS. I do feel that is a great shame for a otherwise brilliant timetable. To just have the base freight stock and services does make the freight side feel rather neglected, and surprising given AABS eye for detail on most things. I would hope with constructive feedback that a possible revisit at some point to remedy this wouldn't be a bad call. I am also surprised that the Class 90 won't feature on the upcoming Trent Valley route, given this is where it would have predominantly stretched it's legs. I understand the reasoning for now, but to dismiss it for a future add on to the timetable was a peculiar decision. I feel this might need a change of heart. I do think the freight situation definitely needs reflection and improvement though, as not including the Cargo Lines DLC as part of the WTT was probably a bad decision. But again, this is not a personal dig, but constructive criticism to maybe reflect on and improve. Outside of freight and back to the passenger I was incredibly impressed with both the WCMLS passenger timetable, and the B2C, they felt far more 'alive' and improved dramatically. This is how it should have been when originally developed! So a genuine well done there and certainly something that will draw players back to playing it. So well done to the team on that front, the work really shows and shines through. I am a bit of a grumpy git at the best of times and often get called Karl Pilkington the 2nd, but I did find Harrys laugh incredibly infectious! (Non route commentary there!) This will be a day 1 purchase for me and I can see the quality and work that has gone into the 1:1 passenger timetable and it really reflects. The passenger operations look really good on this, and I look forward to getting it on Tuesday!
I just wanted to say 1) Your post was well-written 2) It's interesting, in my area we call it being a Grumpy Gus or Negative Nancy
The cut services mentioned on stream on console I am hoping to be temporary but it was either that or cut out a bunch of london underground or 710 stock so freight was the best option. Nothing is concrete yet though as we try and find a better solution hopefully before we release, if we do we will let you all know as soon as we can. We want to make sure that we provide the best experience possible for all players regardless of chosen platform
Which does make the most sense since it is more of a passenger route than a freight route. And on console to ease blurry textures for now I usually turn off all railtours and frieght first anyways.
Thank you Candace! And this is Karl Pilkington a well known grumpy UK personality: View attachment 208649 I do side with prioritising the London Overground services over freight, as the passenger services make up the bulk of playable services and this is a passenger focused DLC so I wouldn't personally want to sacrifice or compromise any of those services. My comments were aimed towards freight generally, not the 10 cut services that were explained in the stream. It seemed freight in general had been sidelined with only a basic skeleton service overall and hadn't utilised the relevant Cargoline packs. But if the answer is the same I'd prioritise the London Overground services over the freight if it is a choice between one or another. If that is not the case I do stand by my original comment that it was a shame not to utilise the Cargoline Volumes 1 & 2 outside of static stock and think the route would be missing out on freight and the Cargoline Volume freight services. I think the majority of players would prioritise the full London Overground services, if it was a game limitation that meant that it was a choice between one or another as it would break immersion if it lost all of, or even some of the LO services. But, just to clarify as I don't want to get things twisted, I'm incredibly impressed with the details on the 805 and the timetable overall and it's a really nice piece of work as always. The 1:1 passenger timetable looks incredibly good and the 350/1, /2, and /3 layers are very welcomed. When I was watching the stream the route was a hive of activity. Definitely excited for Tuesday, it can't come quick enough. I've been waiting for a 'full fat' passenger timetable since WCMLS come out and this is going to tick all my boxes as does the 805 which a really nice bit of work inside and out!
Personally I liked the sounds of the locomotive and they appear to sound like they have improved the sounds from the class 801 sounds. However I felt that the loco is overpriced for £14.99 given that it is an IET like the class 801 and 802. The loco also did not appear to add many more services to WCML South and apart from other 805 and the 350 layers from Birmingham to Crewe. Once Trent Valley releases there will be additional services with the 807 on the 805 timetable. However, I don't think there will be many more services with that layer and you will need to have the upcoming WCML Trent Valley to take advantage of these additional services. I don't think I will get this loco until after Trent Valley is released when it will probably be discounted in a sale. I also wanted to send my compliments to DTG Harry during this stream. She does a fantastic job of keeping the conversation going with dad jokes and funny anecdotes. I loved the bread and zoo Dad joke as well as her anecdote on spotting trains at Birmingham New Street.There were virtually no awkward silences and keeping the conversation going in a two hour long stream is a testament to her communication skills. Keep up the good work!
Isn’t the consumer the most important party here? Sod devs having a hissy fit at one another, why should everyone’s experience be impacted. I want the bloody Class 90 in routes that it should be included in. I don’t know who’s to blame here, but this silly childish behaviour has to be firmly shut down asap. Surely DTG can’t honour another devs request to not have their content on another devs content? If that’s the case. They need to get AAB and ATS devs in a room, resolve their differences and shake hands.
Thanks for all the feedback! Just letting you know I made sure Harry saw it too, though she's going to kill me when she comes in tomorrow, since I tagged her a lot...
Pretty much what I said earlier! The other little flag I’m getting from the reveal about TV is, are we in danger of getting a glut of content in late January and February. Medway Valley and Crewe to Preston must be bubbling under and it now looks as if TV is imminent. Throw in the Class 805 and that’s probably £100 or more worth of content over a few short weeks. So as regards the 805 that definitely means prioritising spending towards the routes, also factoring in next week we also get the CD 163 for SimRail (though guessing that will be nowhere near £15) and the latest SR route extension in February.
With the 90. Trent is AABs baby. It will be highly detailed and no doubt, will have had some serious months of hard work put into it. Fair enough. It might come across as petty and unwarranted that tsw players are annoyed at the lack of class 90, as AAB or ATS are not obliged to do anything above their dlc commitment. However, this is my gripe. I had this also with the Cornwall DLC (Penzance forever being represented by a low standard route build). If I were to set up a 3rd party tommorow. Introduce a skilled team, and plentiful resource. DTG would still say no if I proposed a modern Wcml or a class 90, as its already been or in the process of being made.
Skyhook had one of their DLC in so called DTG "testing" for 6 months before DTG decided to release it.............
How many hours after release before we see someone on here complaining of a bug where there's a diesel fault that needs fixing, whilst running on the overhead?
It’s an expensive month for sure. When it comes to SimRail though I might wait until it’s released on console, as that is imminent now. I read sometime at the end of January, but realistically it’s more likely between February-March. I hope both routes don’t release in the same month, as I would have to prioritise what route I want to play more. Bills come first! I always say to myself when I get paid for the month that I’ll treat myself to at least one route
I wouldn’t knock it until you tried it, it’s a lot of fun. My time with SimRail has been really positive, It’s a different experience from what you get on TSW. Nothing beats communicating to a irl player (dispatcher) with the in-game comms. It’s very satisfying. I have yet to try the dispatcher mode, that looks too advanced for me. I would probably need to watch a tutorial first
I've played SimRail before, but I found it quite repetitive due to the lack of route variety, which are basically focused on only one location... At least in TSW I get a huge variety of routes, trains and services, plus the 24-hour schedule, which is what attracts me most to the game. Regarding the 805, I liked what I saw in the broadcast; a day-one purchase for sure. Even though people are criticizing the price, everything involves work, however minimal. There are two new schedules and a train that has been improved in terms of sound and visual aspects, more than fair.
I think if it had more variety of countries, I might. If a Polish route came out for TSW I would buy it. There are other things I want to buy for TSW and TSC before I get to Simrail. It does look nice graphically but whilst I can see that MP has advantages I'm not sold on it. That could change I guess.
It’s early days, but the concept for SimRail is great. Having that 500km playground to explore all connected is the main appeal for me and engaging with real players. It does have its technical hiccups from time to time though, don’t know if that’s my PC or the game. I can never tell half the time There’s a new expansion coming out soon which adds the Łódź to Warsaw route. I wouldn’t buy it though as my priority is picking up TV or Medley Valley, which I suspect can’t be too far away now.
If you pick one of the quiet servers you wouldn’t even know you are on MP. The only issue is, if you have to come off you end up doing a portion of a run. Also they are now working a bit more on single player, including getting the save game into a workable state. Most of the routes have a fair few scenarios, no worse than TSC tends to come with. I have gone hot and cold on SimRail during the course of its existence but currently on a bit of a high with it and that CD 163 coming out on Sunday looks to be a superb bit of kit.
I doubt Medway and Trent valley are both close to release. DTG tend to announce things rather early in development to fill the roadmap up
Hi all I wanted to clarify the situation regarding the upcoming Class 90 loco pack and why it is not included in the Class 805 and Trent Valley timetables. As Kieran mentioned on last night’s stream, during the Birmingham to Crewe release we encountered issues where players were required to own the Class 170 in order to run Voyager services. This happened because Voyager services had been authored before the train itself was ready, and the Class 170 was temporarily substituted for testing. Making late changes and modifications while the project was already in QA directly contributed to the problems seen at release. As a result, at All Aboard we have taken the decision that, going forward, only completed and released content will be included at the point of timetable creation. This policy applies across the board, not just to ATS content, but to all third-party partners and DTG content as well. Following the errors and performance issues experienced with the Birmingham to Crewe timetable, it is essential that future releases meet a higher standard of assurance and testing. Similar to all of you in the community, we only learned about the Class 90 following it's announcement in late 2025, and with no practical method to test it due to certain constraints, this means we wouldn't be able to properly validate the full working timetable or performance with the Class 90 layered in. Our priority is to ensure that players receive the best possible experience and value for money, and under the circumstances, including the Class 90 in any of our timetables would not allow us to provide that level of confidence with our stage in development. I hope this helps to clarify the reasons behind the decision. Dan
Yes I know. I’m waiting for it to release on PlayStation and that’s still “to be announced” unfortunately. PlayStation is my preferred platform. I still have SimRail on PC to scratch the itch while I wait though Also waiting for news on ETS2 and ATS too, they’re suppose to be coming to consoles this year as well.
Presuming Trent Valley is coming soon, it'll surely be out before the 90 is ready so the 90 would only be a patch focused on that rather than bundled into one whole release.
I don't think this is an unreasonable stance to have to be honest. As both you and Kieran said, trying to add content that doesn't exist into something essentially means that the TT cannot ever really leave a testing phase. I think what a lot of people are arguably more concerned about is the seemingly definitive answer regarding adding it post release. I think we all understand that continually developing a timetable is resource consuming and of course you want to avoid scope creep. It's just a shame that you seem to be closing the door on the addition of such an iconic locomotive for these routes, even as a future update. I think what needs to end up happening is that the way timetables are developed and released needs to change in general. DTG should ultimately be providing player with a seamless experience that utilises the their entire library where appropriate. If that means they need a dedicated team who update all the timetables post release (including the 3P ones) to ensure they include newer stock, then that's what needs to happen. As it currently stands, the player seems to end up somewhat short changed, either having to choose between multiple "unfinished" timetables or just forgoing the timetable experience and spawning in a train. I'd like to add that this is a more generalised complaint rather than something entirely directed at AABS. I'm still very much looking forward to this, I can see the great amount of effort that has been put into it the pack. Just echoing what others have said regarding things like the Class 90 and Cargolines.
Couldn't ATS just duplicate the respective timetables with the 90 on it like skyhook do with their cargo packs?
Thanks you for giving the community a response on the situation. Regarding what routes the Class 90 will feature on though, this is only for TV and the 805 TT’s. WCMLS, B2C (non 805 TT’s) won’t be affected?
No mans land between Crewe and Alderley Edge. WCML routes featuring Daventry and Basford Hall that ignore a modern Class 90 DLC. Or a Class 90 DLC that ignores certain WCML routes.
I fully agree with this statement. The star of this game is the 24 hour timetable. Many people keep stating they prefer TSW over Simrail or TSC because of the 24 hour timetable. It should not just be released and left in it´s release state forever afterwards. They charge good money for the DLC and I think it´s a reasonable thing to ask.
Was thinking this myself - hoping this can happen as Trent Valley would be an excellent place for the 90 to stretch its legs.
This sounds like a good solution. I understand AAB standpoint and their decision as they have explained it. I hope some solution can be found, it would be great to drive the class 90 on the new route.
Yeah, definitely read the in-game manual and optionally watch a tutorial on YT. Also don't start with a big station (the game will prevent you from getting into the more complex ones until you have a number of hours in the easier ones, but still, increase the size of the stations step by step).
That's a really good suggestion actually. And a really constructive one that works around the developers constraints. Hopefully that is the plan from a ATS point of view too.
