West Coast Main Line: Trent Valley From All Aboard Studios

Oh great just what this game needs is a nice carbon copy timetable with added services, so we can add that to the 3 WCMLOS & 2 WCMLS timetables we already have.

I (and many others) have tried the "diplomatic ways" for months and nothing is changing. What is left other than being frank and withholiding the tool left to us (our cash) do you suggest we try?

Im sure I am not the other one totally fed up of the multitude of timetables each route is getting because Devs are either incapable of working together or too bone idle to put the effort in to make things work if its outside of their rigid self imposed timetable?

 

The thing is, the points you're making are completely valid and I completely agree with the overall sentiment.

It's just the way you go about it that I am disagreeing with, particularly talking to Devs in that manner just lacks respect particularly when they are offering diplomatic responses and taking time to give us their reasoning.

 

When the Devs are treating us like total and utter morons and taking us for mugs then they'll get it straight back at them.

 

I’m going to be honest I don’t know what else you want me to do as a director of a company! I have made multiple statements on this and yet people like yourself continue to slam All Aboard Studios! WE have NO access to the Class 90 and can not include it in our content! Perhaps you need to read between the lines rather than continuously berate me and my team who are open with the community and have worked with more 3PP than any other studio!

We are here to work with you and take on board feedback and suggestions at times probably too much, but to reiterate we can not include content we are not given access too….

 

Here here

 

And thats why DTG need to bang heads together, if you arent getting access you need then they need to sort out their 3rd party program out.

Its not the customers job read between the lines and work out what is failing in TSW to the extent we are in this mess, but ultimately if a product isnt meeting the wants of the customer then the customer is quite within their rights not to purchase and provide feedback.

The book stops with DTG and all 3rd parties.

Edit after reading back and double checking I havent laid the blame at anyone door other than DTG and havent even mentioned AABS once, you have chosen to take it against you.

 

Still doesn't excuse your abhorrent tone and language.

 

Civility hasnt got the point across in months.

 

And you think hostility will work? Because I assure you now that it won't, quite the opposite even.

 

Spot on there.

I also take onboard the very last part of your comment and hope others read between the lines too!

 

"BS excuses" or "an explanation"?

I think what Dan posted was actually the latter and it's nice to have an explanation.

Customers aren't being treated like "mugs", this is a computer game, a hobby, fun stuff.

I dread to think what some would have said about the amount I spent on another hobby at the weekend.
If we use an average price of a TSW route of £30 and an average Timetable service of an hour, then I spent equivalent of 3 TSW routes on a ticket to watch my football team and another TSW route getting there and back and one more TSW route on food and beer. All for a match that lasted for the equivalent of one and half timetable services.

Unlike most TSW routes my team didn't play well and lost and left me feeling really fed-up for the sum total outlay of £155. If anyone in this forum is a mug, it's me. I don't get to ask for a refund because the product was a let-down and no matter how talented the modding community is, they can't retrospectively make my weekend's outlay seem worthwhile.

 

Well nothing else has worked.

We keep getting 3rd parties refusing to work with other, having cheap digs at each other (remember the rail replacement to Wilmslow "easer egg") in game and the only losers seem to be those paying theiir hard earned cash.

 

Only losers eh?

Well I for one will be buying the 805 tomorrow and several other upcoming dlc's besides, guess I'm a loser then, oh well, could be worse I suppose.

 

Wow. Good luck with life if that's your attitude towards other human beings.

 

so you’re winning because you’re getting a 2nd rate experience? And you’re happy that because of the internal wrangling within the 3rd program that is preventing you from getting the best experience possible?

I don’t call that winning personally

 

I will buy but not tomorrow I wanna see how it performs on xbox first if ok then i will buy.

 

I think one lesson I've taken away from this is, ATS haven't made their Class 90 DLC available to Devs to include in their DLC/routes... So this would suggest AABS have been completely open to have content included in their routes, but have not even had access to the ATS 90 to be able to include it in their route in the first place.

If I've understood this right, that means any of this frustration should then be redirected towards ATS to get them to include it or atleast going forward make content accessible to other Devs so they can include it in their routes for the benefit of all players.

AABS have always utilised as much rolling stock as possible to bulk out routes as we can already see with B2C.

Anyway, the vocal minority doesn't always necessarily represent the majority who are appreciative and see what hard work is put into stuff.

 

People forget that this is a hobby, but they're taking things to extremes, treating developers with hostility.

If you don't like what you have, simply switch to another simulator, because that's all they have to offer, simple as that.

From the moment third parties start abandoning the simulator because of these unnecessary discussions, then I want to see them complain about the lack of content variety, becoming dependent on DTG, even though they have much greater concerns about game correction.

Complain to DTG. DTG provides the tools; third parties work with what the game owner makes available.

 

There appears to be a significant amount of projecting going on in this forum. One or two individuals perhaps need to step back from the keyboard and reevaluate your approach.

A perfectly adequate response was given in relation to the class 90, yet there is more stamping of feet and behaving like a petulant child. If you’re not capable of being a third party developer yourself, you should really consider what your actual input and contribution is here.

 

Perfectly reasonable

 

You've literally been told that the Class 90/Trent Valley situation has nothing to do with "internal wrangling within the 3rd program" (sic) and yet you're still convinced you're right. Unbelievable.

 

There is no internal wrangling, you just don't want to believe that.

 

Spoiler alert it probably won’t run well just like their first route but that’s probably because of doesn’t test games’s fault (DTG)

 

Back on a more positive note, I think what would really work well was if DTG themselves could come up with feature, when you can instantly route hop into a service with the same unit, same time, same weather so you'd get a seamless transition and route hop that doesn't effect the immersion to much.

Imagine pulling up at MKC, route hopping, onto exactly the same numbered train and taking it all the way upto Crewe? Is that to much wishful thinking?

I think Trent Valley and WCMLS would be the perfect route to make such a thing come true.

 

My only take on this is that, at this point we don't know how far away or what state the Class 90 is in - it could well turn out to be another Class 104 and only exist in a few mock up images or from an early alpha version.

That and the more of a unified timetable we can get for all the available stock on a route, the better which does come down to DTG keeping a tight grip and co-ordination of all 3P products to give the best possible customer experience.

 

I've already seen one video reviewing the Class 805 and there's probably a few going on You Tube tonight so plenty of opportunities to see if you like the look of the pack from whichever reviewer it is that you most trust.

I'm also considering buying a new music keyboard and I'll do exactly the same with that, watch demonstrations of the product in use, read some customer reviews and then decide whether to spend my money on it. Consumer basics in the internet age.

 

Are you part of AABS ?

genuine question because as soon as anyone dare say anything negative you have to appear typing a whole chapter and verse comment as a reply.

 

Never take these YouTubers reviews as serious they get content for free to show off they are not going to be negative. Best thing to do wait for release people will be buying it and giving honest reviews here

 

Fun little insight for you, I believe a lot of our team watch the reviews of our products back but I know for certain I will sit and watch reviews for all of our content to see where we got things right and where things could be improved if they need improving so that we can continue as a team make all of our different elements better. Reviewers are great for giving everyone including devs a good insight into things

Just a random little note I wanted to add from myself personally

 

I wish you good luck on the release. Hope it goes better than the route and good luck for your next release after this.

 

I don't know what your problem is? This is second time you've had the same issue with me that feels a bit unwarranted. I write messages because I like to engage properly with the discussion and offer something more than a silly little negative comment. I tried be polite to answer your question before, but you seem intent on taking digs...

So in your eyes I'm meant to just go against the grain and be constantly negative and if not suddenly you take issue with that? Listen, I'll be completely honest, if you want to keep just taking little jabs at my comments because I agree with AABS (which might be news to you, but I'm allowed an opinion and I'm allowed to defend them with evidence I see) than I think you're the issue and not me and that's all that needs to be said. I am allowed to agree with them and I'm allowed to articulate my reasoning to.

Equally if you want to sound like Andy Pipkin from Little Britain and give short negative replies all the time just for sake of it, you're allowed too. But please don't try bringing me down to your level, I'm allowed to be positive about something, and I'm allowed to agree with something, I don't need you to keep telling me otherwise. Is that little chapter okay for you this time?

Anyway...

 

And you couldn’t answer my initial question I asked or choose not to but instead type a chapter again, so I am guessing we now all know the answer to that, thank you.

 

It did answer your question, but obviously you've intentionally chosen not to understand it because you've got no real substance in your argument.

Anyway people can make up there own minds I'm not fussed either way now I've got that off my chest!

 

So yes you are then.
Thanks for clearing it up and hope the release goes well for you and the others. Will be waiting for reviews from others on here before making my purchase. Had a drive on B2C earlier and was actually enjoyable so I am sure this will add to that enjoyment.

 

And people wonder why developers and DTG staff don't participate on these forums, well the answer is above! Keep it up and there won't be a forum, or it will just be the same people talking to each other with no developer interaction.

It seems no matter how many explanations there will be some who only want to believe their view of events, it seems that the internet has made some people just want to be angry. The more abusive and combative you get the more push back you get and the less chance you have of getting what you want.

Am I dissappointed that the class 90 won't feature? Yes. But I understand the explanation given. Maybe in the future a solution might be found.

Am I going to be a loser and purchase the 805 tomorrow? Yes

It looks good, sounds good and the two new timetables look good.

 

Just to make one thing clear just in case there is a small chance your sarcasm isn't sarcasm, I am just a forum user, not a spokesperson or associated with any company or DLC. Just to make sure that is VERY clear for once and for all...

Trust me, a spokesperson wouldn't have referred to you as Andy Pipkin from Little Britain and get away with it!

 

Anything that can enhance a route gets a big thumbs up from me. Is the 90 problem annoying yes. Will it be a game changer no

 

A remedy for those who would like to drive longer distances !
I probably wouldn't do hundreds of miles at once with a Class 150, but with a Pendolino or a 805...

This can be done with WCMLS and Trent Valley, but also with the JT WCML routes.
I think the question will arise more and more as the "network" of available routes in TSW will expand, we've seen it in TS20xx/TSC with route merging.
No doubt we can find a more convenient solution than simply merging routes, maybe something involving portals and markers...

 

I don’t think the sim will handle it look at issues it has just now. Which is baffling because TSC you can have the whole full line from King’s Cross - Edinburgh load in one route. And that’s how many years older than TSW

 

Yes, but it's very unstable.

You're right, any new feature requires work anyway, and there are already many things to fix.
Absolute priority there.

But still, linking routes together couldn't be that technically difficult, it's just loading a timetable scenario (say on Trent Valley) when you've just finished one (on WCMLS) after all !!!

 

I don’t have any issues with my TSC couldn’t tell you the last time I had a OOM or CTD mines has been stable since it went 64bit “touch wood”

 

Over here be like..

This forum is ridiculous. Having given it considerable thought, the whole 90 situation is perfectly valid. How can they add it if they simply don't have access to it? Can't whip it out of thin air.

Some folk need to quit hiding behind their keyboards.

 

Well said!

 

Are you sure about that?

 

I wish you it will keep that way

Tbh I had problems with ECML merge when I made railtours from Brighton (via Copenhagen Jn or Harringay Curve), so having already played a complex merge beforehand, and my PC didn't like to chain those without restarting the game...

 

You been out in the real world? Nicey nicey doesn't always work.
Besides, if I ever met the Devs ‘face to face’ I’d be happy to tell em!

 

Neither does constant antagonism.

 

I disagree to an extent, I don't blindly follow every reviewer. It's actually a case of finding a reviewer you trust. Just like the old days before the internet, you'd have to wait until a computer gaming magazine you trust had a review of a game or add-on. Every reviewer from those advertising services on their podcasts to the DJ's you listen to on the radio or at a club to the podcast you like that does film reviews gets "free pre-release copies", if you're simply not going to trust anyone who makes reviews why trust those who've purchased it? Are they not just as likely to show a bias either in support or against?

Obviously, as I found out when I got free CDs for reviewing new albums for a magazine, if you're going to be critical about stuff you have to ensure it's constructive. Maybe there's simply not enough patience out there to listen to a detailed constructive critique because "Loud, Overbearing Train Sim Bloke" has just posted a rage-bait video on You Tube entitled "TSW is DEAD!", "TSW WHAT THEY'RE NOT TELLING YOU" or "TSW. The TRUTH that will shock YOU".

 

Yep. Everyday, including work.

It's not about trying to be 'nicey nicey', it's about being firm, but fair and polite. For example if a company has wronged me, I can be firm and straight forward without having to resort to unnecessary rudeness or swearing at them.

I can say from working in retail many years ago, that if someone was unnecessarily rude to me, not only did it rub me up the wrong way, but I'd do the bare minimum I had to and was well within my rights to refuse service or to resolve the issue. If someone was firm, but fair with me without personally insulting me or talking to me like complete dirty I'd go out of my way to resolve the issue for the customer.

Its not asking for a lot just to have a bit of respect when dealing with people.

 

And to add to what SierraOscar95 said.

I can confirm from personal experience that those spoiled youngsters who spend 90 minutes complaining at a football referee aren't getting the benefit of any doubt if they take a tumble in the penalty area in 3rd minute of injury time in a local cup semi-final back in 2007 (er..for example). It still makes me chuckle when I see a footballer shouting at officials.

People will generally have your back if you're nice to them.