PC Need Help With Pzb On The Schnellfahrstrecke Kölnwith With The Br 187 (m Mode)

Hello, I am still learning the PZB. I know the basics that help avoid an emergency brake application during a 1000 Hz magnet or when starting a train.

However, I don't quite understand this specific situation: A signal with a single flashing green light and a yellow "7" panel (announcing a 70 km/h speed limit ahead).

The 1000 Hz magnet is active, which requires acknowledgement. But after acknowledging, the monitored limit drops to 45 km/h (I thought it would be 70 km/h because of the PZB), which triggers an emergency brake.

Note that the "70" (or the indicators) flashed like this for a long time, and the "PZB Release" (END) key did nothing. I think the 45 km/h limit is related to this flashing.

Could someone explain why the indicators were flashing for so long, why I couldn't release the monitoring, and why there is a 45 km/h limit under a 1000 Hz magnet when the "70" is flashing?

Many thanks!

 

I think there is a issue I had the same problem in Zugart O with a totally different train. DTG needs to fix this bug

 

Definitely a bug.

Was this signal right after you stopped? If you were in restricting mode 700m before this signal, you'll be held at 45km/h, otherwise it's 85km/h like normal.

 

Thanks
It's likely that I drove for kilometres with the 70 flashing without any problems. I was able to reach the train's maximum speed without having any emergency braking situations, but going over 1000 Hz seems to have triggered the problem.

 

The PZB is a difficult safety system to master, but if the game doesn't make it work properly, then it will be even more difficult to learn.
Sometimes I get PZB penalties without even understanding why, despite my research.

 

First thing I want to say is that unfortunately Rivet's BR 187 is considered the buggiest loco (for sure in the top 3) in the game, so I suggest you learn PZB with another loco. It is difficult enough to learn PZB without having to be doubting if you did something wrong or if there is something wrong with the implementation on the loco.

Now, lets see what happened to you in this case.

1.- The video starts with you being under the influence of a 1000Hz magnet. I cant tell if you have been under the influence of the previous 1000Hz magnet for too long at this point because it is not in the video. Remember it is based on distance travelled, not time.

2.- You see a green signal with an expect 100. You do not need to acknowledge this signal.

3.- You thought: "Its a green signal and it is warning me that the next signal will be green with a 100 speed limit, so I can safely release PZB".
So you pressed the "PZB release" button. You shouldn't have done this.
You can only press "release" if you know there will be no other PZB event before you are out of the 1250m PZB is monitoring you after you acknowledged the previous signal. The upcoming 70 Km/h restriction that is already showing in the "upcoming signals" UI should have hinted you that you would need to acknowledge that restriction soon.

Note: The 70 indicator in the dashboard should have stopped flashing when you pressed "release PZB", but it does not. As this loco is buggy, its difficult to know what happened here.
In any case, even if the 70 stopped flashing PZB would still be monitoring you in the background until you advanced the 1250m.

4.- You passed the green signal with the 70 restriction, ackdnowledged PZB, and still got an emergency brake application.
When you passed the signal and pressed the PZB acknowledge button, PZB knew you released when you shouldn't have. At that point, it immediately applies the most restrictive speed control it "remembers" should be active. From what I have seen in the video that limit should have been 70Km/h, but can't be 100% sure without seeing what happened before the video started. Again, difficult to know and even more difficult when you can easily suspect of a bad implementation of PZB in the loco.

In any case, rule of thumb, do not "PZB release" if you see that there is any kind of restriction incoming, specially not if you are only 2Km away from a station where you have to stop. Most of the time you will find speed restrictions and/or adverse signals near stations where you have to stop, or near any kind of rail network hub.

Your default stance should be waiting until the PZB restriction naturally expires, unless you are 100% sure there will be no more restrictions soon.

 

No there is a general bug with this signal. Has nothing to do with PZB release.
This signal seems to trigger a restrictive 1000Hz (45 km/h) that never ends, after 700 Meter when there is no new restriction and a main signal with a granted speed >30 km/h you should be able to do the release if there is no new restriction within 550 Meter but in this case because of a bug it does not work and you remain restricted forever as he said "Note that the "70" (or the indicators) flashed like this for a long time, and the "PZB Release" (END) key did nothing."

Not sure if there is a new restriction within 700 + 550 meter but usually you should get a Zwangsbremsung IF you did release AND there is a new restriction but in this case you can not release which is the bug I am talking about

 

Thank you for your response and your valuable explanation.

Are you saying that I am under the influence of a 1000Hz magnet because of the flashing 75?
(Just a question to understand, because before the video started, I drove several kilometers with only the 70 flashing.)

If you're talking about the first signal in the video, I didn't press confirm. I used to do that for every signal, but I don't do it anymore.

Thank you for explaining that to me. I'll apply it next time.

What's even worse is that it's been flashing for quite some time now, and I've been trying to turn it off.

Your explanation really helped me understand when to release the PZB, and I am very grateful for that.
I wouldn't be able to tell you what the PZB had stored in its memory because the 70 flashed for quite a while (several kilometers) and, as you told me, the PZB uses my distance traveled.

Despite its bugs, I learned something, thank you.
I will try to get a more reliable machine with a digital PZB that displays more information on the screen.

I wouldn't be able to tell you what the PZB had stored in its memory because the 70 flashed for quite a while (several kilometers) and, as you told me, the PZB uses my distance traveled.

PS: For the video, I started recording after encountering this signal and reloaded the backup to record.

 

Since the website won't let me edit it,
I made a mistake, I'm talking about the 70 blinking and not 75.

Are you saying that I am under the influence of a 1000Hz magnet because of the flashing 70?

 

This cursed locomotive is driving me crazy.

The next time I encounter the 70 stuck, I will try to restart the locomotive.

 

There is no combination of events that should lead to the penalty brake that's captured on the video, it's a bug on the loco.

However, if you are still learning PZB, stop attempting to release yourself, only use that button to confirm end of LZB section and just wait out the limits in all other cases. You'll save yourself a lot of headaches, as incorrect usage of release is penalised.

193 Vectron is a better loco to learn PZB on, it doesn't have any bugs and the display will tell you exact reasons for penalty brake (in german).

 

Thank you for the advice, I will follow it.

Just a question: Does this apply when starting the train? Should I wait until I have driven a little and it happens automatically, or should I release the PZB if the signal at the end of the platform is green?

 

That looks like a bug, yes. Probably the loco, but cant be 100% sure.

 

Guess you are talking about a signal that he passed before the video started since "PZB Release" not clearing the restriction in the loco dashboard has nothing to do with the next signal (the one that causes the emergency brake). Would be nice to know which signal it is so DTG can fix it.

AFAIK if you "PZB release" and then find a 1000Hz magnet that you "PZB acknowlegde", PZB will immediately check your speed to the most restrictive speed it remembers should be active. So, for example, if you released a 1000Hz in mode O and then find another 1000Hz magnet it will immediately apply a speed limit of 85Km/h instead of a curve from 160 Km/h -> 85Km/h as it normally would.

If you "PZB release" anything and then find a 500Hz magnet then PZB will immediately apply emergency brakes, because you are next to a red signal and if you were not respecting the speed limits before it cant be guaranteed that the train will stop before the signal without doing that.

 

Mhh, not sure. Would have to try this in Zusi 3 to know how it is supposed to work in the real world.

 

Yes, that is what the dashboard in the loco is saying. Now, you are also saying that you could drive above 70Km/h before with it blinking and the 70 in the speedometer UI is not blinking. The UI and the loco dashboard should be doing the same thing. So, difficult to know exactly what logic is being applied. Seems like a bug.

Yes, I was trying to say you did not acknowlege it and it was correct to not do it.

Yeah, probably a bug.

You will also find that sometimes just pressing and releasing the SIFA or PZB buttons too quickly is not detected by the game. Its a known problem with the game. If that happens, try to hold the button for a second or press it several times until it is registered by the game.
Not saying that this is what happened in this case. Just saying that it sometimes happens (with any route or loco), so in case of doubt you can try pressing the buttons again since there is no penalty for doing so.

Thats another one. Doesn't really matter in this case since you said you just reloaded to reproduce what had already happened to you and guess you got the same result since you didnt mention any change, but you need to know that saving and restoring a game does not always work properly. Might cause any kind of inconsistencies, including safety systems not working as expected.

 

I learnt that reading the ZUSI 3 manual