LucaZone Adam, what are your thoughts on adding a mild implementation of exhaust emissions, using the Just Trains exhaust setup, on the MML HST ?
Just a quick little bug I've noticed following the recent update; the AI don't set the head or tail lights on the HST anymore for some reason, and even when the player is driving - the taillights are still not on for the rear powercar and need to be turned on by the player. Very small issue but seeing trains running with no head or tail lights on is a pet peeve of mine, as I have recently discovered...
Not sure if this is new or has been around for a while, but some of the safety system isolation buttons are either mislabelled or linked to the wrong thing. DSD Isolation actually controls the Vigilance, and Vigilance Isolation actually controls AWS. There doesn't seem to be any way to turn DSD on Another minor thing is that if Automatic Coupling in the player assist menu is turned on and you couple two power cars together nose to nose, the coupling bar does not appear and they are only connected with air hoses This meanwhile isn't a bug, but if Skyhook consider making the guard panels on the Mk3 coaches functional and allow us to access the guard compartment on the 'A' coach, and the back of the power car, that would be cool
Hard really to add the off branches to network for connection layers. Such has Grantham to Nottingham which doesn't have any station. Nottingham to Sheffield would be a great new add on, but Midland mainline would be outdated for it to link to. Would open up other services such has Northern services to / from Sheffield & Leeds.
With the West Midlands Railway & CrossCountry BR Class 170 DMU Add-On released, is it possible to get the CrossCountry 170 populated into the Midland Mainline? It is a regular sight on the line, notably between Nottingham and Derby, as well as in Leicester.
Not only that, but can we have the stations filled with AI only trains to off the map locations. Take Nottingham for example, it feels so empty without other 158s as AI trains. There should be services to places such as Worksop, Liverpool Lime Street, Norwich and Grantham just as examples. Other routes have these; such as ThamesLink at Peterborough, EMT at Peterborough, Grantham, Newark Northgate and Doncaster on ECML, or the Fife Circle AI at Edinburgh Waverly, on the Edinburgh Glasgow 158 timetable, which was also a Skyhook timetable. Having the XC 170s, plus AI trains would make the route feel so much more alive. Adding a 222 as a train DLC with a new timetable with these improvements would be a great way to implement this, except Skyhook already ruled out adding one
Ran the London to Lincoln (Leicester to Nottingham) service earlier, came in a few minutes late as the 158 overtook at Trent Jct and took priority all the way to Nottingham, however after completing service and ‘returning to Free Roam’ the HST reversed and ran out west to the Mansfield portal on the route. Is this correct? I fully expected it to continue eastward like the majority of Nottingham to Lincoln services. Also count my vote for inclusion of the new XC layers in and around this route!
Bumping an old post but for anyone who has travelled this route regularly it would be a great addition! They have since added some 'street art' to the building in 2022 but as this route is presumably 'set' before HST withdrawal, you wouldn't need to do that and it faces away from the tracks anyway. A building that is 'close enough' is already modelled in the right place. It's not exactly a gamebreaking problem, I just think it would be fun/nice touch if the dev team could shade it blue and perhaps add some of the coloured squares? I would have a go at modding it myself but wouldn't know where to start and don't need another project!
Wouldn't the whole thing be better upgraded, has aren't most of the forementioned services ran by Class 170s, albeit no licenses for the EMR version. Norwich to Liverpool Lime Street still been Class 158s, uncoupled at Nottingham to form 2 car services to Norwich, coupled to form 4 car towards Sheffield / Liverpool Lime Street. Not ideal but Class 323s again by Northern for AI work between Nottingham & Leeds (maybe Outwood again) like ECML. Maybe you knows.
Services may be ran by 170s now under EMR, but not when under EMT. I'm not entirely sure specifics, but Liverpool to Norwich can be either. I rode it a few months back between Chesterfield and Sheffield (to change to Doncaster) and it was two 2 car 170s. 323s to Nottingham wouldn't work because no wires. Outwood isn't a stop for Nottingham to Leeds, and I genuinely have no idea why the 323s on the ECML route have thier destination as Outwood rather than Leeds.
I was kind of been Hyperthecial, due to amount of Northern Class 323s noted as layers on TSW. But correct due to OHLE needed.
Looking up now current MML Class 158 2U07 Nottingham to Norwich is playable only to Loughborough albeit service doesn't run through Loughborough. Newark Castle to Matlock (this would be correct in 2026 timetable if not already following route to Cleethorpes from Matlock). Leicester to Nottingham Leicester to Lincoln Probably not set in present day anyway, rather modern but old but not in same sense as West Cornwall Local which is old.
Playing this tonight and I see they never got around to fixing the HST animations. I'm sure they said they were going to. For those who don't know it's when you close the doors, the last couple of doors remain open, even though they are classed as shut. I have to do the old trick, go to inside cab view and back to external to see they are shut.
I don't think it's just the game and it's LOD distances, I've noticed doors still open that are furthest away from me on a lot of other trains besides the HSTs
Started a quick run on MML last night with a 158 from Derby to Nottingham. Sadly, the route is not aging well. Everything seems to have a slightly soft brown tint to it. There are roads at level crossings where it just looks as if the plate has been placed on top of the highway, not merged into a continuous surface. Doing an early morning run the lighting is awful, everything is shiny and over exposed looking. The 158 seems to have inherited the slightly nerfed sounds that inhabit it's Scottish counterpart. Would be nice if SHG could revisit with a remaster or even extension (despite having previously ruled the latter out) and put the 158 sounds back to what they were. Otherwise, sadly, not a route I will be revisiting much again and the only reason to keep it installed is for the VP185 engined HST - another instance of needing to be able to separate trains from routes when deciding to manage installed content. Edit: Also just noticed, the points running into 4A/B at Nottingham are still missing switchblade ends, so your train runs across a virtual 4ft gap in the rails.
I believe this is either the materials were never updated to the latest TOD 4 standards and/or they were not set up correctly from the start. I'm not sure what platform you play on, however there is a mod which significantly improves the visuals of the Midland Mainline route - the foliage fix is probably the biggest improvement. It adds ambient occlusion and makes it look a more natural (darker shade of green) colour. Midland Mainline Enhancement Pack
The timetable is still relevant! Yesterday I took the 15:32 from Derby to Leicester, changing at East Midlands Parkway onto the 158 for a slower run on the Ivanhoe (mad dash to make the connection!) and arrived around 16:20 into Leicester. I did this both in reality and in-game when back home, and everything matched. The timings, the departures, the mad dash (as the meridian was running late yesterday).. even the 158 slowing on approach to Loughborough P3 while the opposing service departed and ran the other way. I’m sure some things aren’t quite the same now, and the current real service has been curtailed to Nottingham and not the original Lincoln / Grimsby. But all in all, for an older route this took me by surprise. I wonder how many other timetables still match their TSW counterparts!
Service 1D02 Leeds to London St. Pancras description is wrong. It says drive Derby to Leicester but you actually drive Nottingham to Leicester
MML is nice but just feels too short! I know it wont happen and thankfully I have JT TSC version to make up for it, but would like to see them open up Toton Yard, Extend to Matlock and Sheffield plus add the branch via Langley Mill (its not a lot of miles in track and they have some laid already around toton) While on the TT side, I understand the license stuff but a change to EMR bringing in the 222 and/ or 810 (the 222 could layer onto WCML with the Lumo services starting in May, just paint it blue!) would be welcomed for a more modern MML, with 170 EMR repaint, then also adding in the XC 170s and 220s and a Northern 158 (or non branded repaint)...Also Network rail or colas with the HST, 37 and 153s would also go nicely .. I get somewhat of a fix with the modern modded version despite it not being an 810 but its a start and hopefully the modder keeps adding further layers!
I wonder if a third party developer or a PC modder would be interested in making a new timetable for this route? I do love the Midland Mainline route, but sadly the passenger timetable is a bit barebones feeling, with missing EMT, Northern and CrossCountry services, amongst other things.
Would be nice, as I agree too. With other routes being updated and remastered it will only leave MML further back. Perhaps there’s another Tyler out there ready to be absorbed into SHG in a similar way that Rivet absorbed Tyler!? A new TT with Toton and Radcliffe opened up, featuring a 156 as new traction could make sense. Personally I’d love to see Matlock and Newark brought into the game to enable the 156 more running space.
The irony that it was probably the likes of the MML remaster that really kicked off this era of route updates starting in 2024. Its worth bearing in mind that a lot of the recent remasters have been (to my knowledge) personal passion projects done for free, hence why they have taken so long to be released. Those developers potentially have another source of income not reliant on DLC sales. Skyhook is a business that must pay full time staff wages, it isn't an option to develop content for free. Regarding great proposals to expand the MML route beyond its current offering, the cost to add both Toton and Ratcliffe from scratch, or to extend lines to destinations many times further than those currently implemented is just prohibitive for a full time studio in the current TSW market. Such an investment would be far more fruitful developing new locations offering new experiences and traction. As some have noted, the focus at Skyhook currently is our Lawn Mowing title and thus there isn't the budget to spend on big TSW projects. However, we're still expanding our ever popular Cargo Line series (and more) and providing service updates to existing releases. TSW activity at Skyhook continues even if we seem quiet and there are many more talented developers jostling for the lime light right now.
What about more AI traffic at Leicester, Derby and Nottingham? With the Voyager and XC 170 now available, surely there must be someone wanting to add to it.
The voyager could layer in as AI at Derby. It doesn't go to Leicester or Nottingham. The XC 170 could do Nottingham to derby services (part of the Birmingham to Derby service) and AI at Leicester representing the Stansted Airport to Birmingham and the Leicester to Birmingham hourly service
Firstly, thank you for the insight, and the honesty! It goes a long way on here. I think a lot of us have seen how this ‘remaster’ trend has grown and evolved since SEHS and the MML one a few years back, and have dared to dream, as I distinctly remember times when every call for GWE remastered was shot down with ‘never going to happen’ or ‘licensing won’t allow’ responses.. only for the eventual opposite. While I won’t draw a comparison to GWE, I do feel the MML has equal potential for something on that level, and as a forum user/consumer who has witnessed just how great updating legacy content can now go, we have every right to dream, and share those wishes unapologetically. We can get a little carried away at times, but our passion for the game is undeniable. It’s great to know that despite the tricky business side of things at SHG HQ, that you’re still down to tinker with TSW and hopefully continue to produce paid content for us players to enjoy! Obviously you’ve seen the comments regarding a Timetable update for MML, and all I’ll add here is I hope it does make it into the plans, or taken seriously enough at SHG HQ to materialise. I will speak on behalf of the majority here and say that a updated timetable + some sort of additional stock (that makes it financially viable at both ends) would be absolutely welcomed and hit the sweet spot in terms of a huge leap forward for the MML route. I know there’s been discussions on here before about Crowdfunding, as well as hesitations, but again I’m sure some of us passionate ones (who are technically limited in comparison) would consider something of the kind if the project could be managed securely and fairly this way! Thanks Adam, and sorry for the hard times I’ve given ya on here!
There is a daily Voyager service from Nottingham to Bournemouth, leaves about 06.40am. So a Voyager could even form a driveable service from Nottingham. Also, while uncommon, Voyager's have occasionally replaced 170s on Birmingham to Leicester services. So that would be a nice Easter egg
Hiya, I definitely don't want to stifle suggestions, but I think it is appropriate to set expectations of where Skyhook is at regarding them. By all means discussion about future potential player experiences around the Midland Main Line are valuable to propose and discuss. In time it may be justified to expand, rebuild or replace the route with something newer meaning the availability of player wants and desires about such a project would be advantageous. With regard to the likes of the GWE remaster being 'never never never' and then one occurring, what you're looking at there is DTG stating it's not something they would take on in place of investing in new locations and traction, and then its eventual occurrence being the result of someone taking it on as a personal project and DTG facilitating the release. Personally, I'm still disappointed GWE wasn't set post Crossrail completion and thus more future proof than its current state. Now 10 years old (since development), remastering the route may have even stifled chances of more modern GWML content. Then again, I am loving the remaster, completing many runs already since its release. While currently Skyhook do not have any plans to expand MML further, we are open to discuss if other developers can see a path that works. So in that respect, never say never.
Appreciate the candour Adam. Nevertheless, it is still frustrating to only be able to experience a small section of what could be a much longer more interesting route. I know TSC is a different beast, but JT must have regarded the MML as sufficiently viable to keep adding sections to it (nor sure if Hope Valley can be merged in). Wish every success to the lawn mowing venture though not something that really interests me personally. Can do it in FS25 taking contracts for other NPC farmers on the map, or your own pasture to turn into silage then the grail of Total Mixed Ration to get 100% milk production from your dairy herd.
Thanks for the words Vern. However, there is simply no ability to compare the development of TSC and TSW. TSC is a different universe entirely to TSW production. Additionally, every business has its own investment plans and abilities. That doesn't make the position of Skyhook wrong. I've never said MML as a subject matter isn't viable to develop as TSW content, just that suggestions for Skyhook to expand the currently released route don't work for Skyhook. I'd be quite excited myself if other developers chose to develop more MML content, in particular the southern end seems to be an obvious candidate given the availability of the main terminus and a number of multiple units (and BR era traction) to provide a fairly populated experience during gameplay.
Out of curiosity, for someone, or a third-party to be in a position to carry out a passion project officially, what would it take? I’m not on PC, but I can imagine someone has taken the time and effort to modify a timetable with additional layers.. among other things. London Midland / Josh Rubio rings a bell. Hasn’t he modded and beta tested for DTG in the past? Curious to know how one goes from a player/modder to someone officially on board with a first/third party.
That's a question probably best asked in here: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/forums/pc-editor-discussion/ Its worth noting this is how I got into the games industry. I started with modding Team Fortress Classic maps for Half-Life in 1999, then joined the Day of Defeat (who remembers them?) team before moving on to Microsoft Train Simulator mods and content development. From there I applied to Kuju Entertainment to join the team behind Rail Simulator (which later became Train Sim Classic) and would then form the company that is now Dovetail Games. We all start somewhere
Perhaps this is more suitable for the suggestions thread, but seeing as we're already having a conversation about it here, here are some of my thoughts: The Midland Mainline is known as the Cinderella Line, both in real life and perhaps in Train Sim World. It has a lot of potential, but someone needs to give it time and love to allow for this to happen. Whether that be by Skyhook Games or another developer, it has the potential to be turned into something even better. There are a number of things which can be done to the route, which I will list below: A timetable revamp, which will add various services missing from the current timetable, such as the missing EMT Regional services, as well as entirely new services. Add new CrossCountry services to the route - these consisting of Class 170 Turbostar services and Class 220 Voyager services. Add the missing EMT Regional services to the route - most noticeably around Nottingham and Derby, as there are a number of these services which have not been included in the base route. Introduce new freight services - these will be a mixture of AI/off route services, as well as drivable services. Route extension options: Include Toton and the surrounding area - this is a MASSIVE DB freight hub for the East Midlands, which will add a sensible start and end point for a number of freight services for the route. Finish off the scenery for Ratcliffe Power Station and make it player accessible. This is an iconic landmark for the route, which can offer a unique driving experience, as well as introduce new freight services. Add Derby Litchuch Lane - This provides unique rolling stock moves, for a variety of stock which is undergoing overhauls or is new build. Add Derby Chaddesden Sidings - primarily used for stabling of engineers trains, as well as use for Test Trains and light engine/rolling stock positioning moves. Extend the route to Matlock - a wonderfully scenic branch line, which will allow end to end services from Matlock to Nottingham. Extend the route to Sheffield - probably one of the biggest requests since this route was released. It will give the HST a 'proper' run from Leicester, as it feels quite short to and from Derby and Nottingham stations. It will also allow the Class 220 to be utilised from Derby to Sheffield and vice versa. Train add-on DLCs: East Midlands Trains Class 222 - Probably the most significant omission at the moment. A true powerhouse of the Midland Mainline - the route just doesn't feel right without it. East Midlands Trains Class 156 - Another (lesser known) workhorse for East Midlands Trains, working on various EMT Regional routes and will provide some much needed variety when it comes to regional workings. East Midlands Trains Class 153 - to complement both the Class 156 and 158, this will complete the EMT Regional fleet. These are just my opinions, based from someone who is local to the route and what I'd personally like to see.
