Ntp Remaster Thoughts

Ok before anyone gets their hopes up, this thread is so I (and others) can share a few thoughts about a remaster of North TransPennine and what could be done if one is eventually done.

For me the simplest form would be taking the excellent "enhancement pack" that is available from the trainsim community website and throwing in a few new tweaks (as it is a few years old now), slap a new and busier timetable and we are already miles ahead of where we were. I still play NTP a fair bit, the enhancement pack (for PC) has made a difference but the route feels so empty because the timetable is so empty.

To really improve things though they need to fix Manchester Victoria, the trackwork is fine and some of the buildings look the part but it has glaring errors, most notably the missing subway in place of the overbridge and the empty sparse areas around the southern platforms (the bay platforms and Bury electrics) and station concourse.

Now I've said the timetable but I was thinking a few days ago to the JT Preston - Crewe route and how that focuses heavily on freight, particularly MGR. Well if they are going to include some new MGR wagons they would be a great addition to NTP. The 47/3 coming from the same route would also be a great addition for freight workings but also some coal traffic, heck it might finally provide some impetus for someone to come out with a 56... There was plenty of freight traffic in reality and it's missing here, there's no engineering trains, no speedlink or wagonload, just a couple of oil trains and it's not even close to enough.

We don't necessarily need a new loco for the route, spruce up the 37 with some BR blue paint and throw that in the timetable alongside the 31 and chuck in some blue & grey MK1s in place of the Mk2s and all is good It would be a great opportunity for a developer to make a 56 and release it in tandem, in a similar but hopefully better way than the 171 and ECW re-launch.

To spin it back to the timetable, for AI we just need places to seem busy. Manchester Victoria (a place where I spent a lot of my early youth - before it got butchered, the station not my youth) was a busy place. There should be AI traffic operating "local" services to Wigan/Southport/Bolton/Blackpool/Blackburn to the west and Rochdale, Oldham, Leeds (via Calder Valley) to the east (101/142/150). Some freight ran via the Calder Valley too, send them straight through as AI and really liven up the place. Heck, have the 101 operate Bury Electric services under the guise of "the electric is off for a week due to engineering works" and really make the place feel alive. No doubt the same could be done at Leeds to make that end feel alive too.

It is such a shame that this route is in the state it is, it could be so much better if it just had a little bit of effort put into it, and unlike BML which is currently being touted as the next remaster, it has not had performance issues on PC nor console and unlike BML also gives an opportunity for much a bigger selection of rolling stock to be used as well as a larger variety of services to operate.

Ah well, thanks for attending my TED talk.

(The images are from when I was having a mess around in freeroam and just spawning stuff to make the place bring back some memories).

 

I don’t think we should be spoiling the character of the route by adding Sprinters and Pacers to it. It needs to be kept ‘proper old’ to stay NTP. A remaster yes but not a modernisation, even by a few years.

 

Agree completely. The nominal date is 1983 but it has a 1970s feel, I don't think forward-looking additions would help the "charm" (hey, the 1970s in northern England were full of charm. Right? Right....?)

 

I'd maybe have 2 timetables for it. One for the original 1982/83 date and one for JT era 1986 with the Pacer. Add in all the new stock we now have too and forthcoming (Class 108). DLC could be a Class 25. Update all the locos that come with it as well, they deffo need some love do the Class 40 and 45.

 

Just FYI with those screenshots, they were more of a suggestion of "look how it can look nice and busy" though there is currently a lack of suitable stock for "local" services aside from the 101, hopefully the 108 would be a big boost Dare I even mention the 104

Two timetables as per Paulie's suggestion is also a good idea, best of both worlds as very little changed between the early and late 80s aside from the trains themselves

 

The route was a godsend when released and the 40 and 08 DLC pack added to its greatness.

It's also a route I go back on from time to time but could definitely do with a remaster now, with a bit of creative liberty the 142s could be added.

The 45 could be worked on and finally given the livery editor treatment.

With the available rolling stock introduced by DTG and third parties since, this route could be really brought to life. For the Bury DC stock, I'd be fine with them represented with 101 stock.

Give the 101s a full remaster with accurate sounds as well.

Hell if it meant paying for it, I'd pay for it.

 

I’d certainly come down on the side of Sprinters & Pacers.

Even though BR locos are over shadowed by modern content, there is really nothing for representing regional railways.

That being said I understand why people would be against it, there’s no real defence for taking one of the few BR Blue routes & changing up the era.

Of course there’s the 2 timetable options but having one for loco ran services & the other made up of DMU’s will be more complex than the 313/377 swap on ECW.

 

The date it’s set should remain unchanged. We have plenty of more modern routes. The whole essence of the route is loco-haulage.

The most important thing to fix is the signalling system - address the fact that in some locations you can get the distant ‘off’ then the home signal at danger. Until that’s sorted, the timetable can’t be increased because it becomes a much bigger issue when there’s more traffic.

Given that even newer routes (including Blackpool Branches) suffer from this issue, I suspect there’s some fundamental issue with the core game which causes the issue with semaphores. It never seems to happen with colour lights.

 

If you want to add a pacer, really it should be a 141.

 

Loved this route and would like to see it completely remastered asap! As for "new" content, two options:
1) Keeping the early 80s timeframe, bringing in 108s, another Peak(46?), 56s, 25s.
2) New late 80s window, introducing 158s, 142s, 150s, new 47s, etc. Like TSC.
Realistically speaking, of course

 

In an ideal world DTG would do a full update of NTP, running it from Liverpool to York via St Helens. This would then include Rainhill. Then we could have a Rocket too.

 

Remaster yes, but support via a Class 25 or Trans Pennine Class 124 DMU pack not anything more modern. And yes definitely needs some blue grey Mark Ones in some of the consists.

 

Similar to OldVern, a 25 is a must, as is a Cl124 TransPennine DMU.
We need access to Portals and far more sidings, especially around Victoria and Leeds. The route is one I often return too, it has a very 'real' feel about it.

 

It would be a massive job undertaking a remaster of this, on the scale of GWE:R.

The whole lighting system - just look how pitch black Manchester, Leeds & Huddersfield are at night
Platforms needing wet, snow textures
The moors themselves need a massive overhaul, it's Playstation 1 graphics!
Timetable itself needs a massive upgrade, we've got a variety of coaching stock available now.
Deffo needs a Class 25/56 adding
New features like Rail Singing and AI horns at whistle boards

I guess an extension is out of the question but it would be nice to at least head off to Healey Mills, even better if Liverpool or even just Warrington (would be a useful route hop for JT's up and coming route)

 

My opinion would be to leave it in 1983. That part does not need changing. There are plenty of routes to drive the Pacers.

It's actually a route where the class 40 is realistically used if you advance the timetable a couple of years then that becomes unrealistic.

The upcoming class 108 would be obvious for the Manchester end. The three car 101 from TVL should also appear. The new class 20's, 47/3 and the class 31 should feature. The mark 1's from the ECML railtour pack also.

For me I would he happy with a realistic 1983 timetable featuring the more recently released and to be released BR stock and a TOD4 upgrade. Anything like scenery enhancements would be a bonus.

It would be suitable for quite a lot of DLC options including the often mentioned class 25 and class 123/124.

 

Wouldn't it be better as a comprise to have Sprinters, 150s etc for both parties to be happy, modern / Dated.

Or have you gone off that idea put forward in other threads.

As for Leeds sure it would be very busy, maybe 1x reason why Class 323s on Peterborough - Doncaster go as far as Outwood. Not to be included in this route.

Any extentions put forward.

 

Two timetables yes but not combining them in one, no. Certainly that is my view.

Also I'm sure not too long after 1983 the route would have got AWS which it doesn't as per the year it is set in.

 

I'm not sure. It needs more than an upgrade to TOD4 lighting. It would need a lot of love and care to bring it up to todays standards and make it more like GWE remaster (which, let's not forget was a side project) and less like the botch job that was ECW which looks good but introduced a whole bunch of problems. I'm not sure that DTG (or rather their paymasters at Focus) would authorise such resource for a product which would bring in no income.

 

In which case, this might be a better candidate for an extension. Get York in the game or being really ambitious all the way to Scarborough. Throw in aforementioned Class 25 and 124 and you could take my £33 without quibble tomorrow. You could also just about make a case for a Deltic as they were for a time relegated onto NTP duties once the ECML HST fleet was at full strength.

 

I totally agree, and would love to see this route remastered with a new timetable.

Ive often wondered whether a third party such as Just Trains would 'adopt' the route and release it as NTP Version 2 (similar to LIRR 2.0), perhaps adding a new loco/stock and fully updating the route. I know I'd happily pay for that!

 

That wouldn’t be a compromise as it would be the people who want those trains who would be happy when those who don’t would not as it totally changes the feel of the route. There’s no way anyone is doing a remaster with two new timetables (as suggested by some) so it would be much more in keeping with how the route is meant to be to not have it modernised by the inclusion of those trains. It’s the only route of its time in the game. It needs keeping that way.

 

Someone released a 1990 timetable version for the route, it's been at v1.5 for a while as the author said he was doing other projects. It made the route a lot busier but wasn't my cup of tea as loco hauled services were drastically cut and only went as far as Stalybridge and no loco services went to/from Man Vic.

https://www.trainsimcommunity.com/m...-leeds-1990-northern-trans-pennine-v15updated

 

This has been my thought as well. With some of the Chat Moss line going to be in Preston to Crewe, perhaps do an NTP 2.0 which includes Manchester to Liverpool. I would 100% pay for it.

 

I agree with others that a remaster would be most welcome, but it would be a shame to change the era it is currently set in. If anything, pushing it back to 1981 would open the possibility of Deltic hauled Transpennine services which occurred in the last few years of the Deltics on BR.

 

A resounding Yes! for an NTP remaster, but for heaven’s sake keep it early 80s, we have more than enough modern routes. It goes without saying that a matching class 25 DLC is way overdue.

 

Now we’re talking

 

Gala day in West Somerset Railway - a 1 hit wonder of a shuttle service. Not bad but worked I reckon. But not for whole routes like this.

 

Think I've said it before, but I'd happily pay for a remaster that featured the Oldham Loop - one for the realms of fantasy, of course. Thinking of it, were those services even featured as AI on NTP?

 

I don't think there are any services on the route which aren't driveable.

That's why Leeds and Manchester stations are so quiet as you only see services which traverse the route.

 

I think remasters can be a solid business opportunity for DTG. There are more than a couple of older routes that are well regarded and fondly remembered (e. g. NTP, TVL, RSN) which have almost certainly seen sales fall away except on deep discount, since lighting and assets etc etc are just not up to current standards at all, but which with a buff-up could be star offerings again. Add in a loco DLC or livery pack or gameplay pack to rekindle interest, as with the GWE and ECW remasters, and it's almost like releasing a new route at a fraction of the development cost. At the same time, the fact that it's free to existing owners helps with customer loyalty and goodwill.

 

If they do undertake a revamp, a new TT with off-map AI services would be a must. This does seem to be the new standard, judging bythe recent remasters.

 

Ah, that makes sense. It would be nice to see both Victoria and Leeds busier, much as has happened to Manc Piccadilly and Glasgow Central after their initial appearances showed them a bit on the deserted side.

 

Absolutely. It didn't worry me so much when it was released but now when you see how busy a station is it makes such a difference. Leeds is one of the busiest outside London.

This should be my favourite route for traction and era but I rarely want to play it now.

 

I feel exactly the same. On paper it's an ideal route, but in practice I don't play it very often because the lighting and timetable is so off putting. Out of the two NTP seems much worse for lighting than TVL for some reason.

 

Agree. I still drive TVL rather a lot because the lighting isn't too bad. But NTP seems consistently too dark. Yes, I realize this is gloomy Lancashire, but still....

 

Everyone seems to think the 80's were gloomy. I remember bright summers and colourful cars and clothes. Not the dark colours everyone wears now.

 

I like this route but I would welcome a modern version with modern timetable and new rolling stock

 

i am 1000000000% down for NTP remaster
but its fighting talk to do one without my beloved 142 Pacer.


but..hear me out:

It looks like DTG are only releasing blue era routes for anything north of Manchester. We have some enhanced (not remastered) Blue for the Diesel pack on GWE which are perfect for the new releases, such as the incoming Preston Crewe and the Cumbrian Coast.

I have a funny feeling that maybe, just maybe we may get a signature route for TSW7releaae and its gonna be blue diesel and based on York - its the obvious gap in the Northern routes.

If thats the case I think a remaster NTP will be a certainty as it will be a perfect fit.

 

The 80s were great. It was the 70s that were miserable.

Except in Lancashire. Lancashire has been gloomy since at least Roman times.

 

Quote "In which case, this might be a better candidate for an extension. Get York in the game or being really ambitious all the way to Scarborough. Throw in aforementioned Class 25 and 124 and you could take my £33 without quibble tomorrow. You could also just about make a case for a Deltic as they were for a time relegated onto NTP duties once the ECML HST fleet was at full strength." Im all for this and the inclusion of JT stock. NTP 2.0 over a remaster every time! IMHO it would have been my 1st candidate for re-master but after seeing ECW I think it deserves better.
The more I think about it I seem to come to the same conclusion with TVL extending to Newcastle/Gateshead/Heaton. Class 25 and 55 <3
Interested on your thoughts.

 

It's great to see this discussion going so well

As someone touched on earlier about the Oldham loop, and someone else suggested JT "adopting" the route, in an ideal world it would be a perfect starting point for a "Network NorthWest" route built around a revamped 1980s Manchester Victoria, there could be lines heading off to Rochdale and Rochdale via Oldham, Manchester to Preston via Bolton (to link up with several JT routes), Manchester to Wigan via Atherton (also linking up with a JT route) and maybe Chat moss, if it didn't push things out too far. It could also be possible to throw in the Bury electric line to complete the set, either operated by 101s & 108s "due to electrical issues" or maybe adding in the 504s - as they share similarities with 304 & 305s so maybe be part of an offshoot of a loco pack for the WCML.

To spin things back to NTP itself, I'm not sure about the darkness, it obviously could use a TOD lighting upgrade but it has always felt "alright" for me in terms of atmosphere, it feels very much like the 80s which while colourful were also a bit grim, looking down at the track and the ballast and sleepers coated thickly in oil just brings back so many memories

As for Deltics, yes they did themselves relegated to TransPennine services but don't forget they were retired in February 1982 so some gentle fudging of the timetable would be required Again though, that would be an excellent loco which would also fit nicely on other routes, the WCML routes from JT are era appropriate but obviously well off the Deltic's stomping ground however would easily accommodate the odd one for a railtour, the same of course applies to the ECML and WCML south routes.

Honestly there is so much potential, the route can be restored and revitalised becoming a jewel in the crown and it can also help encourage other loco dlc packs (and we all know that the developers love those) which can in turn enhance other routes too.

 

A remaster would be very welcome! It would be good to get all the locos updates, nameplates added to the 40, 45, 47s that would add some good variety, maybe livery variations? I think 40106 was painted green by 83, although it didn’t have its nameplates at that point.

Maybe reliveried 101s (white with blue stripe?, all over blue (although this timeframe would be too late for this livery), Metrotrain lettering?

We really do need some more first gen BR DMUs!

Regarding pacers, as someone suggested Class 141s these were built (released into traffic(?) in 84 so would be a bit late. Also as far as I recall they didn’t work the route, they would only be seen at Leeds.

 

I was 8 in 1983 and I and am sure I have seen a white and blue stripe liveried DMU in the flesh (metal). These would have been Tyseley units, but I don't think it would be far fetched for one to appear in that livery, although the 101's might have been repainted quicker, that other classes.

Definitely regarding more first generation DMU's, if we do get the 104 (looking unlikely) and the 108 we will be doing fairly well I guess. Some first generation/slam door EMU's would be lovely too.

 

Isn't NTP a diesel/no wires route?

 

Various newer features are a complete must. With regards rolling stock, obvious missing types are the 128 parcels DMUs, 123 and 124 express DMUs, 141 pacers as first introduced and 25s for the freight side. The Emley Moor transmitter tower near Huddersfield needs adding to scenery.

 

Yes I just meant in general.

 

This is definitely something I’d like to see, but I want DTG to remaster/remake BML first.

 

well i don't know where to start on this as i've put a few comments here and there about a NTP upgrade and have been thinking about a post on the topic so thankyou phil. ill try and keep this short and within realistic scope.

Smedley Viaduct is missing, even if there was no track on it at the time it was still there and is now in use. speed indicator boards and signals could do with a revamp as much as the lighting.

keep the TT to the same year/era otherwise you lose the only home for the class 40. if we only got one TT without the 142s id be happy because we will have the 101 and 108 and (maybe a 104). without any additional locos there is more than enough to fill it although an extras would be nice.

any extension for a small one heeley mills for freight. if i go into dream world i would love to see the calder valley from heaton lodge to newton heath, would add in a lot more freight moves as it was more common for them to go this way because of the gradients. ive already mentioned the Oldham loop.

 

What I REALLY want is an Expert Class 37 in Blue.
it seems to be an obvious asset very much missing from the game so far.
it would be a full price day one purchase for me. £££££

 

Woukd welcome this remaster over the BML one. A fantastic route when it was released first time around and we need more older routes only so much you get out a modern day route with boring plastic one lever trains. Give us these older routes with proper trains that keep you on your toes. Suppose you then get the younger generation complaining trains are broken because when they insert the master key select forward and push forward it don’t move