What Do You Think Is Next For Ats

It'll be back to TSC converting the tsw710 to the Aventra classes for TSC....

For TSW would like them to revisit MAC, and as others have said, please add in that 17mile missing piece to Crewe...if they do go back to MAC would like them to also fix up the TT and get in some unbranded Northern and TPE trains for the TT since GWE-R showed that it can be done and majority of the player base didn't care/mind if they were branded or not..

 

Crewe station would probably have to be be rebuilt by ATS as I can’t see them being allowed to reuse AAS model(and in fairness why would a company allow a competitor to just use their IP) which probably makes the the whole project cost prohibitive especially as a free upgrade.

I love to see more ATS content and the east of England is virgin territory for TSW (hint hint). I know certain quarters moaned about the length of MAC but personally my only gripe is some of the signalling and I’ve enjoy many a run on the route and wouldn’t hesitate in opening my wallet for another ATS route.

 

I too love and enjoy MAC, the detail is superb, however l would like them to add the football stadium at Edgeley and extend the route to Crewe, which l would gladly pay for.

If ATS were to issue another route, it could be Chat Moss or a route in North Wales.

 

I wouldn't expect that update to be free and would pay for the upgrade/increased route to Crewe and would suspect there would not be many who wouldn't..

Its just a shame with the AABS WCML going from Euston to Crewe only for that missing 17miles with ATS preventing a full end to end run!

 

ATS have a thing for Manchester & the North West. I doubt they’re much happier than us that Crewe got missed.

If they make more routes it’s going to be that area or Anglia. I’d also consider that at some of that missing section on MAC, likely exists in some form.

 

its not just edgeley park that i would like to see. stockport was the only place that i was disappointed with as most of the iconic buildings like the hat museum, the plaza, red rock and the bus depot are all just default buildings. even BnQ and decathlon could be made to be a bit more recognisable.

ive also found at slade lane nothing uses the up slow junction. all the EMR stuff goes to the fast lines at longsight which is incorrect as dose some the freight ive done so far. without the TPE hope vally layer i cannot see anything else that should use it.

 

One route I'd like would be a nice Manchester / Derbyshire Network route. Manchester to Buxton with a 156, plus if they can use the already built in the Glossop line section to Hyde North, add in the rest of that line down to Rose Hill Marple and New Mills. Could then do a 150/1 DLC too. It'd then also be prime ground for JT to do a Northern Pacer. You've also got the Aggregates freight around Buxton as well.

 

In My Hope I Think They Will Do The Class 91 Because They Can Use The Class 90 For The Class 91 And Player And Basically Everyone Would Be Happy

 

I had understood paid upgrades to be extensions to routes ratther than scenery improvements. For the latter to work you'd probably need to wait for five years after initial release and charge a fiver, can't imagine it would be very financially viable. An extension of MAC to Crewe, or to Oxford road and beyond (Chester please) I would definitely pay for.

 

Or the massive Etihad Stadium!!

 

No they weren't, they were added along with the 220

 

Yeah, you'd end up with basically what JT did for TSC but in TSW. Pacers on the Hazel Grove to Manchester run would give me PTSD though (I suffered the misfortune of being stranded in one for about an hour one morning opposite McVities when the brakes went funny).

I agree with others though that the run down to Crewe from Alderley Edge on the MAC route feels like a bit of a miss. Would've been a fun one to stretch the legs a bit on and to join up with the Birmingham-Crewe route that followed it. Perhaps no one fancied being the one to do the 3D model of the Jodrell Bank telescope!

 

They may just stick to traction DLCs after the shenanigans of MAC and the less than stellar response of ending the route at a small station instead of carrying on to Crewe, the logical endpoint.

I think a lot will be riding on the class 90 DLC and how that goes, they may have something else planned after, but I won't be surprised If they go the way of Athena Trains and vanish into the ether.

 

Hopefully one day they will do the extension to Crewe but if it's a deffo no no, maybe they could extend to Stoke (a terminus for the 323's) or possibly a little further to Stafford so we can route hop.

 

ATS won't "vanish in to the ether", if anything they'll go into super fidelity and high-quality products released when they are ready, without any announcements until it's ready for market.

That's the problem DTG created with the road map. It's great to know what's coming, but it then built a level of entitlement from the player base when products slipped in release. So much whining and moaning that you then get DTG putting pressure on developers to release the product in the specified release window given in the roadmaps.

A product should only be released when it's actually ready. DTG could really learn that when they release the yearly paid for update, stop charging for it (I know they give the starter pack away for free). Personally think there are enough 3rd party developers now producing content that they could take over route development and releases, with DTG optimising and developing new core features, without the worry of spreading themselves too thin for everything.

 

Ats wont vanish far from it I reckon they will be one of the big runners the same as they still are for TSC

 

I saw on Facebook earlier that ATS are doing a "Network SW" NSE era route for TSC it would seem. I'm assuming it'll be based in the 423/442/455 era. So ATS are certainly still busy with TSC projects as they've also got some more East Anglia content on the way.

 

That's a group unaffiliated with ATS. IIRC the person who did the PDL upgrade with Alton route is working with a few other people. You can join their discord to see more progress too.

 

Excellent news because the original Alton route is superb. I was aware of them wanting to do more including the mainline down to Southampton. I wrongly assumed from the FB post that ATS were going to publish it through their website.

 

I dont think its an NSE era route that person who created PDL upgrade is working on with others, its an expansion of his current SWML, upgrading the line to Basingstoke from the images Ive seen on discord...(below)

 

The issue with some football grounds is that the design could be subject to image rights. We saw this with the Emirates Stadium near Finsbury Park, London N5 in TSC being a rather generic modern bowl structure rather than having design details that are unique to it - think Tottenham's ground but with a larger trophy cabinet.
The Football Manager franchise has had a similar problem, the stadiums that come with the game are generic ones that aren't quite the same as the real ones.

Plus, the Etihad is such a plastic, soul-less stadium that it may suck the life out of the route.

flukey#4378 Looks like I was making an assumption with the NSE-era branding. I really must pay more attention sometimes!

 

ATS are probably the worst 3PD to hope a remaster from.
Looking at their posts on social media their main focus is TSC, this is what is most profitable for them.
I would love an extension to Crewe, but the likelihood of it happening is slim to none. The MAC route now is just abandonware.

 

Bold claims about it being abandonware. They've fixed loads, but DTG hasn't released the patch yet.

 

What’s the next logical step then for this route? New trains and that extension we all crave. No chance, not in a million years. If ATS was interested it would’ve been announced months ago. It’s not profitable for them to waste time on the extension, not when they can pump out the TSC content a lot quicker and for bigger pay outs.

 

This is true of nearly every route in TSW. Everyone wants this branch added or that new piece of rolling stock for the existing route. The MAC DLC is probably towards the top of the league for extension requests, but remember that this was their first foray into TSW at a time when many of their developers had broken away to start their own game development team.

ATS are still deeply entrenched in TSC content, but to suggest they'll get bigger "pay outs" is very likely not the main issue given TSC has a smaller (and shrinking) customer base. Smart companies diversify, because putting all your eggs in one basket, with one product line, is a seriously bad move. TSC content is also quicker to release, they've been making TSC content for long enough to be experts. TSC work is paying the bills at the moment while they get used to making TSW content. But it won't pay the bills for much longer, they'll need to gradually increase TSW releases and decrease TSC releases. Getting that balance right is crucial to keeping the lights on and food on the table.

So I appreciate your comments were a valiant attempt to justify your position that MAC is "abandonware" but that is factually incorrect while there's an update from ATS that's still not been released. I doubt there's anyone who is happy that the route was cut short but are we happy that many older routes haven't had rudimentary updates since release? "Abandonware" is software that is no longer being supported by the maker, this is blatantly not the case on any DLC even if some of it has remained a little unloved since release (see Cornwall Coastal for the best example). MAC is not a great example for you to prove your point on that front. New update is pending.

 

Alan gave very good reasons why they didn't extend to Crewe. Development pressures and the fact it was their first route they wanted to make sure the product was achievable before going bigger.

New trains could come to the route in the future, especially if there's a demand, but who knows.

 

How often over the years have we read that DTG have been sent a patch but they seem to take a very long time to release it, surely the devs must be annoyed?

 

Yes, as I have raised before, DTG are the principal roadblock with feature upgrades and patches being released for routes.

 

It's a VERY convenient excuse for all parties involved imo.

DTG gets to say "we're doing console testing/waiting for a release slot", while the 3P gets to say "it's with DTG for QA"!

and we all get to laugh and laugh

 

Since ATS seem to like to do routes for TSC around Manchester, which got me thinking. Their MAC route can be utilised for a few extensions. Not only, as previously mentioned, extend to Crewe, but after Stockport extend to Buxton or the Hope Valley Line to Sheffield. Also at Cheadle Hulme to Macclesfield or even further to Stoke on Trent.

Food for thought ATS!!!

 

l am sure Alan will be tuned into this thread.

 

The recent mod that someone has made that merges existing routes? That’s far from a saleable product that would work on both console and PC. DTG would require a much better system for merges or extensions than that hacked together PC only mod. It clones the routes for a start and that’s not the way to go. It’s obviously possible to knit two routes together but it’s quite another thing for it to work as a proper merged or extended TSW route and be possible on consoles. The modder has not proved anything. The only way it can work currently for proper releases is what I described.

 

What about Mildmay line. Although we have yet to recieve it he is extending the route to Richmond.

And we do know extentions are possible.

SEHS it was. But I believe it was said by DTG its not viable as a stand alone new route with the amount of work its pretty much like making new route financially.

So it would only make sense if it was included in an annual release package for them.

So its not counted out but it would mean one less new route to the annual edition just like this year and when we got the SEHS extension.

 

Mildmay is made by one dev and he has decided to do that extra work to extend the route. It was basically a hobby project anyway and he’s not paying staff like ATS would be if they were to extend, the only cost to him is his time. That’ll just be a free update when it’s done. It won’t be totally without recompense for him as some people who did not buy the half route will buy the full extended route. That could happen with the ATS route of course but proportionally not enough to cover the cost of development, which would be a monetary cost to ATS paying staff to develop the extension.

As you say, DTG have kind of got around the issue of players buying routes again for their extensions by including the routes they extended in the core bundles, and it’s believed that was the initial plan for the LIRR extension as well but there were issues that delayed the release so it became a mid-game DLC, although how true that is I don’t know. That’s only ever likely to happen with DTG’s own routes and I can’t see them including a third party route in a core bundle to facilitate an extension that way. If they were to do that with MAC (which they likely won’t) it would need to be a more substantial extension than just the missing section to Crewe to justify it, so would need to include a new train at the very least. The core bundle routes are the biggest selling routes so DTG would likely only want their own routes in the bundles anyway so if they do include an extended route in a future TSW it will be one of their own again.

 

Who's to say AABS wont look at a Crewe -Manchester once they've done TVL.. Better yet combine it with Stafford - Manchester via Stoke-on-trent!

 

Everything seems to suggest that TSW is where the money is. Many developers, such as JT and TSG, moved straight over to TSW, and many others in TSC have given up. Several third-party developers have also stated publicly on forums and social media that there is no longer much money to be made in TSC. The only ones still working on it are doing so out of passion, to finish their last projects, or because they cannot handle Unreal Engine.

 

Yep. Even before Kezz moved to AABS and was working for ATS he said multiple times there is much more money in TSW than TSC in the TrainSimCommunity Server.

 

I think it's worth noting that "more money" doesn't mean "making money", TSG have made it pretty clear this isn't a for profit operation for them either. Rivet & Skyhook had to cut many corners just like DTG does, which probably says how limited their time and budget really is. I also frankly question if Just Trains would be able to do what they do if they had to stand on their own, as opposed to being attached to the much bigger Just Flight operation.

 

TSW is more lucrative because it has a much bigger customer base.
Being on consoles as well as PC means there are far more potential buyers than TSC ever had.
That means more potential sales for each DLC release, which naturally makes it a more attractive platform for developers.

 

This is only really possible once they drop Xbox One and Playstation 4 officially from their supported hardware requirements fully, allowing development only on current generation hardware.

 

A new Northern EMU/DMU: 331, 319 or 195

 

I'd be intrigued to see what ideas they have. Assuming they stick with the UK I don't see many routes which are calling out for a payed extension. (Assuming it's not a payed remaster because... what!?)

SEHS (either direction), TVL (Bishop Auckland), ECML (York), WCL (Plymouth, perhaps modernised) and Fife (Dundee) are the only ones which jump out to me but two of those are third-party.

 

They could do more with Glasgow, give is a decent suburban network adding in to Cathcart or extend out to the Ayrshire coast.

 

Can’t really add much more to Cathcart you have all the branches really for that “route”. Only part they could extend to would be towards Motherwell but that falls under the argyle lines which is a separate route on its own really.
I second the Ayrshire lines we basically have the stock for it already so a line Ayr,largs, addrosan, weymes bay or gourock would be excellent. Backdate it a little bit throw in a 318

 

At that point you'd as well just make a new route. Cathcart is one of few fully complete lines and, importantly, it is self-contained. Trains don't tend to switch from Cathcart services to another line's, although the same is true of most GLC HL lines.

The Ayrshire Coast or the Inverclyde Line (ft. Paisley Canal) would do very well as their own DLC.

Ayrshire would be very good to give the 380 a spin, although it (at least as a passenger) can be a bit of a slog, especially going to/from Largs.
The upside though is that the Ayr services run more or less express to Kilwinning, offering a solid bit of variety. The scenery, especially with the seawall at Saltcoats would be a great marketing point.

Inverclyde + Paisley C would also do well. The scenery looking over the Clyde, the variety of stopping Wemyss Bay and Paisley Canal services and fast Gourock runs, and, unlike Ayrshire, a mix of 380s and 385s/314s (era depending) make for a good route.

Would these be as appealing as part of Cathcart? Not really for me. All it achieves by being part of Cathcart is preventing a 10 second loading screen if you want to switch line and leave an overly clogged-up timetable menu.

 

I hope ATS do focus on a bit of Scotrail. Maybe they could build Edinburgh - Newcastle. It would be nice to be able to go down the other side of Waverley Station heading east then south. It’s a really nice run too. Just please dont end it at Dunbar. That’s too short... I also would love to see more Glasgow routes too.

 

Back to the topic in hand which is the thread type rather than taking it off the point of the post I do wonder what ATS have lined up after the 90. We didn’t have a long wait from MAC being released to the 90 reveal so hopefully we hear something soon as the saying goes no news is good news. Whatever it is I am sure it will up the high quality we can expect from ATS releases giving the TSC and man airport route we have from them already. Top quality as always.

 

I can't say too much as governed by a NDA, but I'm pretty sure you'll all enjoy it! Will bring something different to what's currently on offer.

 

Wherry Lines in the 70’s maybe? Summer Saturday with anything that can turn a wheel on the dated loco hauled services and a new Class 105 Cravens DMU to complement the 101 on the locals. I can only dream…

 

Would be nice, could be the DRS 37/47 loco hauled era? Either way, someone is constructing it, I thought it may be Rivet for TSW7. If they can use some of the newer tree/bush/grass assets from the latest Czech route, even better.