“Hopefully some good runs from MKC - WEM. Thought you were a beta tester so wouldn’t you know this already. Or perhaps the beta tester claim was made up . https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/what-do-you-think-is-next-for-ats.96872/page-2#post-1101526
"There is no DVT in this pack, that is all I can say at the moment". Could it make an appearance in the passenger version?!!
See that comment you linked, I'm under NDA on the next ATS products. Never claimed to be part of the Class 90 testing. Just shows again how you like to make things up to fit your own twisted narratives when you don't get your own way in a discussion, and that you don't read things properly.
More made up stuff then. You wouldn’t be under NDA for the class 90 if it’s for the next ATS product. Which I very much doubt you are even a beta tester for as ATS don’t do beta testing for each product they have a team who do it all.
They listened us they answered low textures why & why there is no engine room -MAC get update for class 90 (Stream)
Tbh how many people actually use the engine room in the stock we have access to them at present I bet a very small percentage. Most users just want to jump in the seat set the train up and depart and enjoy the journey.
Yes, you can have separate beta testers for different products in TSW, testers get given a product testing code to redeem. There are 2 different builds available for people that do BETA testing, however you cannot have both versions installed on one PC. I had no part to play in the final Class 90 product, as I didn't have access to that in my DLC's on Steam's testing branch for TSW, so I can't test what I don't have. I have access to the next ATS product, which if I decide to switch to the beta build, I can access. But I'm making stuff up, so yeah ok then.
I've tried running both versions of TSW on my machine, it causes a lot of issues on my rig, not saying other testers can't, but for me it doesn't work, and I also don't have over 1TB of available space to store both versions on my PC at the same time.
Well you can choose not believe me if you wish too. But you're again doing what dtg_jan warned you about. Have a good Friday evening. I've already said, which you've failed to read or understand, that I cannot run both builds on my PC at the same time, it causes too many issues for me PERSONALLY and then both builds start to crash to desktop during the loading process.
If you have access to these branches, your also under DTG NDA and your not even supposed to talk about it or how it works. Please refrain from saying anything
Jan didn’t warn me for anything because I didn’t do anything wrong I don’t know what they said to you however after your posts got reported for the aggressiveness tone. Anyway likewise not here to argue or anything as it’s not what the forums are for. You have a nice Friday as well and thanks for the discussion. Have a good one.
Just for your own knowledge in relation to the way the beta works, you can find what works and what doesn't here. I've not said anything that isn't already public knowledge from this thread. https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/beta-testers.91564/ Please see the above thread, I've not said anything that isn't covered by Matt in the above post.
That NDA must have one Hell of a "none disparagement clause". I mean, they scared you into believing a "press here for DSD" sticker on a cab door was a great idea.
It’s to prevent blurry textures and they mentioned on stream that they would update when the fixes for core blurry textures are done
Also MAC layer confirmed for a future update, basically they need the Mac updates to happen before they add the class 90 to the route or the fixes would take much longer they went into more detail on stream
I'm not sure honestly why people are so angry about the non-enterable engine room. I get wanting to be able to interact with the loco as much as possible of course, but when I think about all the diesel locos, 37, 47, 45, 52, etc, none of them have enterable engine rooms. UK wise at least, only the 86/87 seem to have them enterable. The thing I do find silly is the sticker to activate dsd, when I personally feel it would make more sense just to activate it alongside another safety system. The EMT HST has it's AWS switched on with the same switch as the Vigilence (that is assuming the label isn't inaccurate)
This was covered in the stream as well, they wanted to but didn’t have access to one since the one they got a lot of the references from was the one at Crewe aka the one that had a engine room fire a long time ago and from my knowledge was never repaired on the engine room side they did also mention if they do get access in the future they would see about adding it, similar for nameplates (it’s something they want but wasn’t sure on how for that side since it wasn’t common during the time of development)
Yeah it’s a weird sticking point IMO. Most times we get an engine room anyway you can’t walk through it - very few locos have a fully accessible compartment. The 86 & 87 are the only real UK ones as you said, but I suspect a lot of the cost involved with that was through subsidising most of the work via a £20 loco pack. The DSD activation isn’t something I like though - I know they didn’t want a fake switch but they could have hidden one behind the plate for the AWS & TPWS. Also they seemed to struggle to hit the correct area for it on the sticker, so the prompt isn’t that easily located. Overall, for £12.99 I’ll be completely sold on this when it gets some more timetable services. Certainly a much better proposition than the £15 805 pack that used 90% of the existing IET’s & will most likely be making most of the upcoming 807. Time will tell how this stacks up against the 70, if that subs into multiple routes (I imagine it’s much easier to swap 2 diesels around than a diesel with an electric), it might well outdo the 90 pack. Though I think the 90 pack having several liveries is pretty strong factor.
They originally made a higher detailed version but are use the lower version until the blurry textures are not as big of a problem
There is a difference in terms of modelling an "engine room" of an electric locomotive vs a diesel locomotive, the electric ones as you can see from the 86/87 are almost completely made up of panels covering things with just a few switches and relays, tanks etc... A diesel locomotive will have various compressors, exhausters, boiler, power unit (the engine itself) the generator, fire bottles, craploads of other little bits which really make it harder to model but also would affect performance. As much as I would love functioning engine rooms in a 47 I understand why there isn't one (besides, I'd probably get distracted nit-picking on something being out of place) but would expect one now for electric locos. As for JT, well it depends what locos they had access to and by whom, JT work close with LSL so had access to their locos for research. As was said elsewhere ATS did not and only had access to 90050 which lost most of it's "engine room" years ago due to the fire and subsequent salvage of parts. Also don't forget that the 86 "pack" came with entirely new coaching stock which helped justify the price. As for the ATS 90, well I was excited to a point for it but somewhat less so now hearing that there's low res textures to avoid blurred textures due to core issues (though I am fortunate enough to not have said issue) and now there's apparently no nameplates? as mentioned up-thread :/
Yeah it’s a fair point regarding electric loco rooms, there are a few caveats at play with the 90 pack, for me the lack of an engine room which you’d have little to do with other than walk through it isn’t a massive downer, but I do think at its expense there should have been more time spent on timetables or just more services even for the one we do have. Thinking about it a little more also, not being able to walk through the loco on a freight engine is something that should be highlighted, considering you’d be switching cabs more often. In regards to textures there are only 2 things that stand out to me, the first is the 2D bolting on the interior cab door, though how often are you really staring at the bottom half of a door behind the driving seat? if compromises need to be made I think that’s a pretty sound one honestly. The second texture I didn’t really like is the panel that houses the speed & brake gauges, it’s just very simple/fake looking. Those 2 aside though there are other texturing decisions that are improvements over most existing content, such as the sweep marks on the floor from door usage, the general weathering of the locos is really nice - even things like blemishes around the grill between the headlights. There’s generally nice rough looking controls & surfaces too. I do wonder if there was a way for them implement high res textures for PC builds though, since these do exist & are apparently ready to go. Either way I think the 90 is going to be something to look at for some time, Alan seemed to put across the notion that it was modular content so any improvements in features could be applied to it as and when ATS make them.
Not on a Class 90 you wouldn't. They often run in multi, you would very rarely enter the engine room on one in service to change ends, you'd be jumping off and walking to the other end of the 2nd engine. I'm not even sure if FL and DB let their drivers walk through the loco's in real life due to the risks of banging heads and snagging on cabinets etc. Never seen a FLIM driver walk through a singular Class 90, they always seem to jump down and swap ends.
I agree regarding the textures, the bit behind the door is an acceptable hit, others slightly less so. It is good to see wear and tear, something which generally has been improving across the board as of course these are working locos/units and will have scuffs - for example the Fenix Sim A320 for MSFS has all sorts of scuffs in the flightdeck as well as fingerprint marks on the screens and windows, just like in the real thing vs "other" DLC which have immaculate flightdecks that just spoil immersion - I've had the pleasure of working a delivery flight and there were fingerprints and slight scuffs already just from the test flights but I digress... As a PC user I'd definitely appreciate the improved textures being offered but understand that they can't be split and will begrudgingly avoid opening that can of worms The engine room thing really boils down to immersion, if it is raining and you've got to change ends then chance is you will do it through the loco, if it's a nice day then you'd do it outside - of course in these modern times you might not be allowed to do it outside (in reality of course). Speaking from a preservation perspective, even if it's raining I'll probably go outside as while I like thrash, it is rather unpleasant squeezing your way through there (more-so as I've gotten fatter over the years) and the noise of the power unit can be hit or miss, avoid a Deltic engine room at all costs however, I swear half of my hearing loss is down to doing a local start on D9009... Not to forget but you'd also need a whole host of new sounds as well for the engine room as well as driving with the engine room door open, which given the issues with sound layers/mixing that TSW have I honestly wouldn't expect them to come out right regardless of who made them. I will happily get the 90 on or shortly after release, probably on release as I have no self control and while I will do the odd run on MAC and WCMLsouth I would be hoping for a Crewe/Brum/Trent timetable to come via modders I will also happily add the odd one into freeroam for "test runs" on Crewe - Preston if/when it is released
They are actually looking into working something out for Trent but it’s highly unlikely to come out before the release if they can, same for the 805 on the class 90 2025 timetable for west coast south not sure when but it’s steps closer
Both the 805 & 807 were already in whatever build was being shown last night, so I imagine they aren’t far off release inclusion if they don’t make it on release. Personally though I’m more bothered about what layers are in the ATS TT outside of AAS’ blur inducing content. Hopefully the national power & cargo line packs are in, along with the 710 & 378.
Pretty sure 710 was confirmed for the 2025 timetable but wasn’t really shown since it wasn’t installed during the previous, I remember someone asking about that not sure for cargo line vols since they didn’t really want to limited freight behind more pay walls, so for the class 90 services they probably won’t be used but the class 66 is maybe
Yeah I’d expect them to be 66 anyway - just hoping with the addition of the first all new freight loco in a long time, it will be in a TT making use of the existing wagons.
I watched the preview stream and my thoughts are... a hard pass. I mean this dlc had so much potential at the start but as time has gone on, it has lost any value outside of "wow new freight loco". Completely and utterly dissappointed in this. To start with the obvious, the texturing in some areas look so bad. The excuse of "blurry textures" seems like a cop out, I mean I guess you can't have blurry textures if textures are blurry all of the time. Some of the texturing looks great but then is let down by bad texturing in other areas, absolutely no consistency. Not sure how they thought that was a good idea. Secondly, the gameplay.. only 15 playable services?? Yet another timetable which has less services than the base timetable? I don't care how many liveries you get, bit pointless when they all do the same services and there is only 15 of them. The fact they didn't hold off to get MAC update out so they could layer it on there too is crazy, at least that would of added a bit of extra value. Then theres the magical sitcker to enable/disable dsd. I'm sorry but what? Is ATS taking a leaf out of Rivets book with that? Pure lazieness. Doesn't have to have an engine room but surely just leave it as a keybind, having some interactable sticker is really silly and honestly whoever came up with that bright idea maybe needs to rethink it. Wagons? Well sounds like it is just the deep copied EMK ones, missed opportunity there. Sounds? They seem okay? Not anything amazing and maybe it was just me but at times seemed like they were clipping? Finally, Train Faults. Yet another excuse used about how they think the system isn't good enough so didn't want to expand further on it and only gave 2 train faults. Just so much wasted potential unfortunately. Overall, might be worth it on a sale and if they actually bother to include it on other routes, none of this free roam cop out stuff. Outside of that, just not worth it at the moment, such a shame too.
I'll just interject on this one, I've seen high-res textures on this model from early on in the development cycle, and if Alan and the team are waiting for the core update before releasing them, it will be very much worth it, and I just hope that they do release a slightly higher textured version on PC as the blurring issue doesn't really happen. Also on the other routes issue, to re-write every single timetable they want to include it on, would be extremely hard work for a rather small team. I'd imagine they will allow the 3rd party devs to include it in their own timetables when they update etc, but to expect ATS to re-write every single route timetable to include it, and then holding it against them on whether you purchase it, is a little harsh to be honest.
First off the Manchester airport update has been in qa hell for months now and they can’t add the class 90 until it comes out or the whole route has to go through another lot of months of qa testing second it’s not even a excuse for the slightly lower textures, they are doing the right thing of prioritising the outside and making sure the route itself doesn’t blur And for their first ever loco addon it’s near JT quality and will only get better with time since they plan to back update stuff when they can, for example the Manchester airport updates
I don't think people realise the depth in which 3rd party developers are currently waiting for DTG to optimise the core engine and stop the blurring before they release stuff. I'm pretty sure Firefly are the people helping DTG fix it, hence why MVL is coming out without issues of blurring (from what they are claiming).
I absolutely agree. It's disappointing it's only one one route. with such a lack of services. I also thought sounds weren't anything hectic. I do believe people are being nitpick about the DSD sticker, though a button would have been better, it really doesn't matter. you will only use it once a run. so yes, I do agree it's really not worth it though I have been excited for a new UK loco. would have loved a 91!!! or a passenger route for the 90. I know that they subtly stated there will be more 90 packs which are potentially promising.
You clearly didn't watch the stream did you? They are already looking at creating a passenger pack but need to develop the relevant DVT and coaches before they can discuss in detail which routes. You'd also need to have a route which Class 90's ran passenger services unless it was a railtour pack, and we know how well they have sold in the past... They didn't.
I watched a good chunk of it and understood they intended to create more packs. That's literally what I said.
On a side note, some vehicles in the past like the BR 101 (the Dovetail one) had fake, unrealistic switches at the back of the cab that represented switches that would normally be in the engine room.
Im sorry but other stock has been released with high res textures and no blurry issues, M8 on stamford is a good example, no blurry textures and good detailing so to me that is absolutely an excuse or ATS don't understand how to properly optimise a product. Plus saying that means you are essentially paying for an unfinished product
