Upcoming Release Br Class 90 Freight Loco - Coming March 30th

But again... you don't have to buy it or use it.
Others (like myself and most casuals) would love the variety of options and don't know or care.
That costs sales for no valid reason because the people who aren't going to use it won't be using it and it's a single player game.

Regardless, "historical accuracy" doesn't appear to be the reasoning anyway.
Given that the one route it runs on is the one that's managed by DTG only and not a third party that it has something to do with communication between third parties. However, no one has said that officially. Just a guess.

 

So should we go about putting Pendolino's and 350s on Spirit of Steam then?

 

I know you're trying to be glib abnd entirely ignoring that the 90 was CALLED the 87/2 originally so they're VERY similar...but sure, let's go whole hog. If they're subbing in for something similar, make them substitute in. Again, you would never know and I'm not asking for whole timetable, just a simple substitution system based on capability. It would even reduce the cost of trains because you're ONLY making the trains, not spending time building whole new timetables and working on dependencies.
If I could get a Class 90 that could sub in anywhere an 86 or 87 could go at 2/3 the cost.... that's a HUGE value to me and it'd be a Day One purchase. This one... pass. May be a nice train, but it's just not useful without anything to do with it.

 

another late adjustment, starting to feel like it’s not an accident at this point

 

agree, the original roadmap described ‘this first 90 pack’ plus it would be silly to not put it to more use

 

Trying to be glib? I don't even know what the hell that means (probably yank speak), but I'm just confused. If you're saying we sub a modern recreation of a 90 onto an 80s route, we may as well go all the way and put other examples, but you didn't even answer my question about that, probably because you realise how stupid it sounds

 

Another one for the ignore list me thinks

 

This is where the free roam or something similar needs to be upgraded. Just swap out the planned stock for whatever it is you want to use (TSC has a good community resource for something similar).

Player only substitution within a timetable is fine mostly but I wouldn’t want to see pretty much every train I own in the menu for a route.

 

Glib imeans joking or silly, lighthearted, knowingly flippant.
I was being nice.
I already did respond. The 90 is based directly on the 87, being the 87/2.
It's not hugely different.
Going to extremes such as not listening to people just for discussing different "variants" of a model is just proving my point about purists vs casual players. Adhering to strict puritanical interpretations drives down sales, which reduces income, which reduces new content and increases costs because they sell to fewer people.
It's a bad cycle if you're trying to keep a company going.

You can argue your opinion on the historical purity yes, but as a paying player mine is also equally valid, and economically more so.
I'm sorry if disagreement means you have to cut people out of your life rather than listen to their viewpoint, but that's your option if it makes you happy.

I think if the Class 90 only runs on the WCMLS it'll flop badly.
They will lose the majority of the potential sales not allowing it on the other routes.
It not only hurts ATS not making sales, but the other route owners (JT, etc) will lose out on sales that might have happened if the Class 90 had been available to bundle with those routes too.
That will be bad for TSW as a whole.

 

I don't agree with the sentiment that the players who want to drive it on modern routes where it belongs shouldn't buy it because it substitutes in for 86 and 87 services on WCMLoS. Apart from that, you could uninstall it everytime you run it, but that gets tedious. The developers could make a separate timetable, but then you are back to my original point. It would be a poor allocation of resources to create a timetable for a route where it doesn't belong, rather than put it on more modern routes.

But this is all hypothetical anyway, as I don't think ATS or JT would want to put the modern Class 90 in the original WCMLoS timetable.

 

This is just unbelievable.... actually with DTG it's very believable. Just one mess after another. I feel sorry for the people that were looking forward to purchasing this next week.

 

Misconceptions:
They're not "putting" it in a timetable. It's an optional substitution. No effort is required for the route or changes to the timetable. You can use the Santa Fe SD-40-2 on Sand Patch Grade, but it didn't require any change to the timetable. It wasn't even planned, but happened through a simple substitution code.
You also don't have to "uninstall" a whole route or pack. Since layer selection feature, that is not necessary.


In any case, given the huge amount of people requesting the 90, we'll see by its sales figures if this fractional step is enough for people to buy it.

 

You ignored my question about whether we should also put the 390 and 350 on Spirit of Steam. We'll actually you responded, only to not actually answer that question.

I only cut out people who I find to be entirely unsufferable

 

I'm with you on this one big time.

Personally i think you should be able to drive any train you own in timetable mode- if you're unable to draw power, pull the consist, or keep to time, etc, then that's on the player to decide if it's enjoyable. It's not suited to be the default option but as a toggleable feature it would be fantastic imo. I'd use it all the time to drive "better" versions of stock that are gated to certain timetables that's for sure!

Wrt out of place AI trains, as you said, that's EXACTLY what the layer selector is for! They could even have "unrealistic" layers turned off by default and players like us who want them could turn them on.

This is a solvable issue!

 

I answered that too.
Did you read the part "Sure, if they're subbing in for something similar, make them substitute in?"
Sorry but you have to follow your own personal rules to be taken seriously.

 

Agreed Disintegration7.
I think people underestimate just now much more player base (and lower costs) you'd have if you allowed more custom options. They also require LESS work and don't affect others in a single player game so there's really no down side.
Basically all you're doing is allowing subs (not requiring) and the effect is enabling an exponential amount of more gameplay value on existing assets meaning more sales, more income, less work for devs, and thus lower unit costs.

Everything needed to do it is already in game.
No players are FORCED to do anything.
You'd have to actively buy the DLC, enable the layer, and then choose the train substitute to even do it.
All voluntary steps by a person that don't impact anyone else.
The only argument seems to be essentially "I don't want someone else to have the opportunity to use the game in ways I don't like."

 

Something along these lines would be the best solution for all players, but it would require some updates from DTG. I have previously suggested this, along with other improvements here. As for how it works now, my impression was that substitutions could not be enabled or disabled by the player, making the need for the developers to add a layer instead, which requires more work from my understanding.

 

Yeah it would require some adjustment my DTG for sure. Maybe it could be a new feature for TSW7.

 

Not sure I tried to set any "personal rules" but sure

 

You can disable all substitutions in the options menu, but can't disable them on a case-by-case basis.

 

"Worst" or "best" in money making? I can't think of any period where this much content came out in such a short time.
However, having said that however, I can't help but thinking they are cannibalizing themselves by putting it ALL out there at once without a pay cycle to pass so people can restock their wallets =-)

 

ATS is streaming a first look now on Twitch.

Got to say it’s great to see a dev not afraid to weather a loco just because of licensing.

• MAC layering will come in a future update.
• Release features a new separate 2025 timetable for WCMLS. Pre Release build at least shows the 805 & 807 as being a layer, though when asked Alan said the 805 doesn’t layer.
• Seems to be around 15-20 playable services including a few being short shunts. Includes doubled headed running.
  
• Full length runs look to be in the early morning, later at night & a couple in the day time.
  
• Sounds pretty good overall.

Overall I’m undecided - it’s a nice looking train, really love the livery selection but having one release TT & having very few full runs within that (some of those being in the rather poor night lighting) limits the raw gameplay value quite a bit for me. Once the MAC TT releases I’ll likely grab it then. That being said, this is one of the very few DLC’s in TSW’s lifetime I’ve been genuinely undecided on, it’s really a shame about the lack of route layering as it’s the only thing holding me back.

 

I wonder if they get the license for SNCB livery

 

Bring it on and for the class 90 will it actually run the entire West Coast Main Line dlcs

 

I've gathered some impressions from the stream: First off I'm happy to finally see a 90 in the game and to hear we'll likely get more variants in future addons. Overall it seems like an okay addon. I don't mind using a sticker to activate the DSD when the engine room isn't modelled. I think it's a better compromise than to add a fictional switch in the cab. The visuals looks decent, but lower quality than what was first shown. The horn was a nice surprise, as it sounded more powerful than what we usually get.

My two biggest issues are the segregated timetables and internal sounds. The issues with the timetables didn't sound like ATS's fault from what they said in the stream tbf, but are still dragging the pack down. The main problem is that we can't have all the DLC trains in one timetable to get more accurate AI. This means this DLC offers very little value for being AI traffic.

As for the internal audio, it sounded worse than most of the recent DLCs. I couldn't hear any running sounds while going at speed and the traction motor and fans lack bass and depth. In the end it sounded stale and a bit like it was just the external sounds with a slighly lowered volume. This takes away the immersion and sense of speed while being in the cab, although at slower speeds it was less of an issue. If there is any area that could be improved in the future, at least for a potential new Class 90 DLC, it should be this.

 

Yeah after watching the stream I think the running sounds are pretty awful tbh, except for the horn, which sounds good. Model is mostly nice apart from some low res textures in the cab. I hope in the future it can go on Trent Valley because the Euston to Milton Keynes route is so short and it's getting a little repetitive now driving that section. The liveries look nice although the DB Blue one looks a little off to me, it's a much darker shade of blue in reality and a lot cleaner looking. One of the promotional shots shows two DB Blue locos running in tandem which is strange considering only 90034 carried that livery. An EWS livery would have been nice to have but oh well.

Overall for £12.99 I think the price is fair, this is not a high-quality loco add-on but if they can update the running sounds and put it on more routes it could be nice to have.

 

The explanation on the stream from Alan Thomson is that this was necessary to prevent issues with consoles. If (when!) DTG solve the blurry textures problem, ATS have high-def textures ready to go into a patch.

 

Will the class 90 be available to use it on other routes beside the West Coast Mainline, as will be quite restricted if limited solely to that line.

I would like to be able to use the class 90 on other routes, as we can already do with other loco's. I know it says in the email highlighting the release that you can utilise 'Free Roam' to take the class 90 elsewhere on different routes, but how do you use Free Roam? It would be great just to open a different route, eg East Coast Mainline and select the class 90 from the choice of loco's and use it on various timetables.

Can you please advise
Thx

 

No, it will only be usable in a timetable or scenario on the ONE route. That's what we've been discussing in this thread.
"Free Roam" means you can go into any timetable on FOOT and then spawn it on the rails.. but it's not attached to the timetable or scenario. It's a special, unattached locomotive that you can't use for that timetable or scenario. You can drive it, but you don't get "credit" for it.

 

Thanks for reply
You never know, it may be added to other routes in future or as passenger service as well. Would be brilliant if they do

 

I really hope they do, but we have no information on that. If anything it's less likely because they're the "current" Class 90 so the purists don't want to see them on the "older" routes from the 1980s.

 

FYI if you save the game after you’ve finished whatever you were doing in free roam, it will count any AP you got, so you will get loco & route level progression.

Of course it means sacrificing anything you had saved.

 

You can also get AP for the loco if you create a run via Scenario Planner on a route of your choice, which can include station calls if you set up a passenger consist. However running a pure free roam with a spawned train doesn’t give you anything (a discrepancy DTG IMHO should sort out).

The problem with using Scenario Planner of course is that you can’t specify random AI trains, you need to set them all up manually in addition to the player train, unless you want a rather lonely run.

 

So...basically it's a pain if it's not timetable or scenario. And of course spawning in trains in a built timetable then often creates dispatching issues. Which is why it's so glaringly absent and less useful/less valuable.

 

Yes I was one of those people

 

I believe Alan said it will come but they are waiting on DTG to push out a route patch first (which has been with them for a while IIRC)

 

This whole thing about patches (in general) in DTG's possession and not being released is getting very outrageous.

 

The whole core patch and route/loco patch are laughable and dtg just sit on them for months with no valid reason.

 

With the aggravating circumstance that, in the rush, some Add-ons are deliberately incomplete or not completely finished.

 

15 services on wcml south and no layering and thats it. Think I'll pass on that until it layers into other routes.

 

It's a no from me as well

 

What you're saying here is striking as I do it very often and I've never had a single dispatching issue.
It has always worked perfectly for me.

 

Not sure if that's sarcasm or not.
If not, then you have been very fortunate and I wish you continued success.

 

I really never had any problem.
Usually AI traffic piles up behind my train (because it's supposed to be a railtour with a low speed), but everything still works perfectly.
Sometimes I also create a sort of service train to grab the collectibles. In that case, as I stop at every station, I choose nearby destinations ("stone's throw steps") and often park in a yard or on an unused track to be out of the path of an approaching AI train and let it pass (because the dispatcher works a bit like in TSC and gives you priority, meaning AI trains can't overtake you).

The only thing I regret with this mode is you don't collect AP points...

The problems you encountered, were they on American or German routes (I never play any of them...) ?

 

Across a lot of routes actually. It's not limited to any one country. I often end up with signals that won't change even if there's no AI trains around. If I do get a decent run, the AI trains often get paralyzed and won't move, sitting in the way to try to "give way" but not being far enough out of the way for me to pass so it's a stalemate and I end up having to delete them after many minutes of waiting.

An example is trying to spawn in at say "Jermanice" on the new Czech map (I think that's what it's called, the one where it has several tracks and there is a signal over a bridge and around a corner coming out of the station to the SE)
Tried to spawn in there and no matter what track the signals would not change. The only AI traffic anywhere on the map was an 843 BEHIND me at the station before. In front there was nothing for 3 stations.
Still the signal would not change. Just "denied" by dispatcher.
Finally the 843 behind me caught up and passed awhile later... waited for it to go a full station down the line... still nothing. All red signals.

That's not saying that route is bad. It's great. It just happens on a lot of different routes. Just the most recent example I can think of since I've been playing it the most recently.

Signal glitches happen even in timetable, I get that. There's one Class 20 scenario on Shap that I just can't get to work no matter what, even after eliminating every AI train on the map, there's one red signal that just will NOT change so you can't complete the mission.

It does seem much rarer than when in Free Roam... for me at least.

Some routes are much easier than others. The less busy of course the easier it is to find a clear signal. I've tried different placements and distances from signals, etc. In Jermanice for example it was a spawn right at the passenger platform in front of the station. That seems like the idea spot to spawn, and it did spawn easily, just the signal never changed.

(well it did for the 843 that passed 10 minutes later)

 

Can you tell me which one it is ?
I'll try it one of these days.
The same causes produce the same effects, it should do the same for me.

 

Likewise its crazy its only on one route

 

Works to about £1 a service (give or take obviously). Not remotely justifiable for me.

 

The 90 is good, and thats it.
I really have enjoyed driving it.

BUT <------- and thats a big but

Another timetable for WCML South, thats 5 now if you have all the Cargo Line DLC.
Like the 805 timetable for WCMLS and it prototypical timetable with how many freight services... 10!!! There does not seem to be that many services other services on the WCML, it just does not seem as busy.
Personally I would wait for a sale. Sorry but thats just how I feel about it. Just my opinion

The no access to the engine room doesnt bother me... I mean, I dunno about you but 95% of the run when I drive a loco I do it from the cab and not sat in the engine room.

Wether I am thinking there should be a full on timetable like the original one that was released last year. or is that just me ,or was I just expecting more.

Hentis

 

Even though this whole engine room thing doesn't bother me too much, following this logic, you could also say "I don't give a damn walking around (TSW vs TSC) as most of the time, I'm sitting in the cab"...