Gbr Class 802 Discussion Thread

Only if you buy it!

If it's that big a deal, don't! Simple!

 

Oh Id want it and as long as the quality is there I’m happy with the token cost being asked.

I just object to my taxes being used but that gripe is more at the UK government than DTG. Maybe the promo work was done as a good will by DTG to ease future licensing requirements with the DfT. If anyone cared that much I’m sure a FOI could be submitted to find out one way or the other, but again I aren’t that picky personally.

 

The simple exterior artwork mock-up for the government and a DLC with everything else that entails are not the same thing. Nobody is being charged twice. Even if DTG were paid £10,000 (which they would not have been) to make the mock-up, that works out at around 0.02 pence per tax payer. People need to get a grip.

 

I won't be buying it. I'm not a fan of the livery anyway and flag worshipping slop makes me uneasy thanks to certain Politicians and their supporters.

 

To be very clear the design was created by the DfT. Its been replicated in game by DTG.

 

I disagree here. This was almost inevitable when the government first announced and revealed the livery. For it to be created and featured in game by DTG it was almost a no brainer to use this as future content in one way or another depending on agreement with DfT. So it was a matter of when not if. How to create a DLC from a livery is another matter. Extra services and unique scenarios would of been something I thought would be added. There is frustration but I don't think we're near boiling point. There has been some amazing content and some interesting ones to come soon. I feel most of us here aren't happy because "its just a reskin" and is sort of political. This is understandable and valid.

 

I am at boiling point with DTG if I’m honest.
To charge for a reskin shows desperation to me.
So many recent releases have at best been sub par and at worst just broken.

I had a small pot of money sitting in my Xbox account that I used to purchase DLC for the game but have now decided I’ll just use it on other games.

 

Free? Well, I don't really know !!! tof


Announcing the Great British Railways Class 802 BMU
Starting the roadmap with some new announcements, starting with the Great British Railways Class 802 BMU Add-on. You might or might not remember spotting some familiar Dovetail faces during the Government's unveiling of the new Great British Railways livery for the new nationalised rail service in the UK, where Dovetail Games had the pleasure to work on creating visuals of the new GBR Class 802.

 

People are talking about this pack like they haven't done this before. What about the 2 170 packs from Rivet, the 158 pack from Skyhook and the Centro Regional Railways (can't remember if that's correct 323. They were all much higher price and the 323 was similar to this one. At the end of the day its a business. I just don't understand why everyone is so surprised with something that's happened many times before.

 

The only one that's comparable (in terms of price and content) is the Centro one. That didn't exactly get anyone raving.

The ScotRail 158 and the 170/171+377 packs all brought completely game(route?)-changing timetables. E2G, Fife and BCC all had (mostly) single-train timetables and were fairly boring as a result. Only East Coastway was strong, but even then it had a lot of services missing and, without the 313, you'd be stuck with a quite poorly-aged 377.

I'd say the only comparable DLCs, in UK terms, would be the Centro Pack and the WCL Steam Railtour. Those were basically just scenario packs, like this will be.

 

Reading the DB 147 feedback thread, looks like they have dumped another load of poorly made, barely tested junk on us there as well.

Having rediscovered the joys of OMSI 2, I’m also currently redirecting my Steam Wallet in the direction of Masterswitch who are basically the bus sim equivalent of TSG when it comes to UK bus add ons. Done a couple of runs with items from the Veiling fleet and beyond superb, probably going to buy the Omnidecker later on.

 

but don't forget those packs were the same price as brand new locos so a reskin and a greater timetable for three times the price of this reskin doesn't seem that fair to me

 

The problem with saying they have form for this sort of thing is that they do and they haven’t learned that it’s not a good look. When you just (literally just) reskin something and that hold your hand out asking for money for it, that screams desperation.

As with all the other recent releases, there will be issues and they will be the same issues the current 80x units have that won’t have been fixed.

 

I'm not at boiling point or anywhere near. I am using TSW more than ever. Yes there are issues, particularly for x-box players but sometimes I wonder if I'm playing the same sim as others!

I don't know why some think they are speaking for "the community".

When I want to be represented, I'll suggest to DTG that they set up a sub-committee!

 

At least the 158, 170 and 377 packs were missing pieces of stock needed for routes, expensive but I was "happy" (Happy is maybe a strong word considering some of the issues with certain packs) to have them, along with the fact they weren't DTG products... This on the other hand, I cant say the same. I cant even find a reason why anybody would want this, looks awful and as far as I know it doesn't even exist in real life.

Slightly unrelated to this thread but as an OMSI enjoyer I cant read this reply and not mention the Studio Polygon Renown, it's not on Steam and is a bit more pricey than the usual OMSI bus but that addon is mega

 

I’m glad you’re enjoying the game. But I’m sorry, there are a lot of people who are fed up of broken releases and overpriced poor add ons.

 

There are and when a release is 'broken" I don't buy it. Others should try doing the same, as many clearly don't!

If I was so fed up with the sim that I couldn't enjoy it at all then I would walk away from it and find something more satisfying.

And this tread is about an unreleased optional DLC which is going to sell for a fiver, and yet some are getting angsty as though they are forced to own it. I genuinely don't get it.

 

I think it’s that people feel as if DTG are insulting them by putting out a reskin at £5. It looks desperate.

With broken content, I’ve refunded two items now because they were broken and I strongly recommend everyone does the same. Also as mentioned before, I have pretty much walked away from it and if Medway hadn’t been as good as it is then I’d have walked away from it completely.

 

Do these thin skinned people feel insulted every time a reskin is released?

I recommend people do their own research before getting to the point of refunding any DLC.

 

Also just putting it out there, some of those gameplay packs are also pretty terrible in their own right. Like a lot of them got just as heavily criticized as this pack when they came out, these gameplay packs made a lot of people eyes roll. Vast majority never liked how unfitting the CSX SD40 or ATSF F7 were for their timetables most obviously.

The SEHS packs are the only ones I ever remembered people actually praising, and that's because frankly higher effort than the others. The RHTT being a actual unique bit of rolling stock, and the 37 both being pretty heavily modified, and also came with the older Southeastern livery for the Electrostars.

 

Charging nominal prices for reskins goes back a long way in TSC. I don't see why TSW should be any different. Anyway, someone has to put in the hours.

I don't see the problem with the 802 livery. It's no more garish than other UK color schemes. Red, white and blue is common enough on this side of the pond, too.

 

What`s taking it so long? They waiting till these trains retire? Weird the Class 90 was built & not the 91.

 

Guessing no one wants to make the loco, coaches & cab car. The 90 was the first potential breath of genuine fresh air for rolling stock in TSW for more than a few months, everything else is just variants & reskins of existing stock.

 

Could you imagine the total forum meltdown if ATS released a broken class 91?

I don't like class 91s, but most people on the forum worship them and ATS would never survive the backlash.

 

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they make those new units that replace the 91s!

I am just hoping that they are waiting for when they retire and making one then as after they retire it'd be very hard to get reference material etc.

 

Where do DTG say it will be £4.99?

 

they said it on the stream. not entirely confirmed though

 

Yeah. I can't remember which developer said this but one mentioned that the 91 would have really high development costs, attributing to the fact you have to model three different cabs and seven different coaches. Good thing about the 90 is that it can be used across many routes whereas the 91 can only be used on the ECML.

The 91s were designed with the intention of having tilting equipment for the WCML, and did do a few test runs (without tilting though) so an IC livery could fit on the 80s WCML.

Whoever does make it though has a fantastic opportunity for a future DLC. The 67 + MK4 would be pretty easy to make as IIRC TfW did not change the interior so it's just a case of making the 67.

 

£4.99 was never confirmed, DTG just said "It'll be priced the same as a gameplay pack"

 

DTG clearly made a lot of money from advertisement campaign.
It really should be offered as a free livery for the community. A small gesture to us all for the on-going issues/bugs that are still present in the game.

 

Perhaps it will be £4.99 for the reskin, but “Hey folks, we’re throwing in an IC225 set for free.” Yeah…

 

If only...

 

Well, the Skyhook Cargo Line packs are £9.99.

ATS would secretly love DTG to overprice the class 802 reskin, to take the pressure off their class 90, but people on the forums would have a mental breakdown if it cost more than £5.

 

Strong disagree, this probably one of the worst designed liveries I've ever seen, too many color's and the weird angular nature of it is just horrible looking. And it's made worse by it seemingly planned as a standard livery, even the worst special units are offset by being one-offs that break up the monotony. I'd be pretty annoyed if tomorrow NS started painting all their engines in Lime Green and Yellow, but as a one off for a heritage unit it's a nice thing to see just for variety's sake.

Also, Amtrak I feel serves as a good counter, they've always done a decent job at incorporating Red White & Blue. Funnily enough GBR's mess of a livery has made me retroactively start respecting how decent Amtrak's Phase VII colors are, even if I still think it's one of the weaker liveries Amtrak have used.

 

Now when I view the thing head- on, it does have the face of a rather disgruntled passenger. Is that the problem?

 

My god the livery is atrocious. Is this the best the British Government can do. I certainly won't be buying it. I hardly play ECML nowadays due to how boring the route is.

After reading this thread, it seems most aren't pleased either

 

To throw in on the topic of previous loco packs that people have been mentioning, I think calling out some of them as comparable to this is beyond unfair. This is by far the single most pointless, low effort addon ever revealed for the UK side of this game, and many of those other addons people have been mentioned were far from that.

The Scotrail 158 is one I've seen mentioned and this by no means was just a reskin. They didn't just slap a new livery and colour scheme on the EMT version and call it a day. Almost the entire interior was remodelled, and parts of the exterior along with it. IMO when that much of the model start to be changed, it is honestly unfair to call it "just a reskin". It's no more a reskin than the 805 is a reskin of the 802, just because it has the same class number. On top of that it actually had a good reason to exist as it filled a major gap in the Scotrail fleet at the time.

The BCC 170 pack was much the same story. The interiors were entirely remodelled twice for the variants provided, and again it filled a massive hole that existed in the timetable. The timetable was just adding to the original though, but that was fine as the original was perfectly fine for what was there. The 171 pack I will admit was probably the least essential of these releases. Again though, more remodelling inside and also, ill fated though it may have been, the 377/3 also had interior and exterior remodels. The timetable was a spruced up old mod though which many of us had already been using, but I suppose for console players experiencing it for the first time it was more significant.

The Centro 323 is probably the fairest comparison, but even this had more going for it. For starters it wasn't priced very highly at all as they actually seemed to recognise the lessened value that it added. "They" in this case were also not DTG, as this addon was also the first release by a new third party learning the ropes, hence the minimal content anyway. And to top it all off, they actually made several improvements to the 323 model which were then ported back into the original BCC one and continued to be inherited by both the Northern versions. Does anyone remember how the 323 originally launched with flat PNG headlights behind a glass layer, rather than the actual bowls with 3D bulbs in the middle? This was the addon which changed that.

This 802 pack on the other hand has none of the things going for it that those addons had. It does not fill any gap in the stock. It will not add a meaningful improvement to any timetables, seeing as they will immediately be thrown off by having these be the only units wearing the new livery. The 802's model is already really good so it will not make any good improvements to it, at least none which shouldn't have already been there anyway. It will also probably not even have an updated interior as the DfT haven't even revealed what that is going to look like yet. In the case of the ECML it will also be using the wrong IET version entirely.

I have to believe that this is being done as some kind of marketing deal between DTG and the DfT, where the DfT want to further promote the new identity of GBR by having a game exist where you can use the "new trains", because I cannot possibly believe that DTG would be oblivious to how pointless this would be otherwise. I would go so far as to call it the 2nd most pointless addon ever released for the game, second only behind the 111 & N-wagen pack where all it did was have that stock replace the doppelstock trains in an otherwise identical timetable, and include fixes for the loco but not back port them.

 

but remember that those other packs had price tags 3x as much as this one will most likely be. Interior means very little to most so I don't think that's a fair argument. Also, absolutely they contributed lots (well I don't know about the Centro 323) but this one is just a cheap reskin, so why should it be treated any different.

 

it is starting to look like this will be the case. problem is, there’d still be a big market of tsw players who need new routes every now and again. the issue then is would someone, ie a company or current third party take over the tsw title so we can all keep our collections in one place, would a new game come along, would the game and all its dlc be left to rot along with all the third parties who lose their source of income? problems left right and centre really.

 

That’s the problem with TSW, it appears to be able to make and publish content for it you need DTGs proprietary tools and their approval, if DTG did go under the sim I could actually see continuing getting support would be TSC since there 3rd parties can self publish and aren’t dependent on DTGs continued presence.

 

How about the Trainbow ICE3. That is £4.99 and about the same as this pack.

 

The interior means a lot for me, no point in having a ScotRail 158 exterior if you're just going to keep the EMT 158 interior.

We also got the 2 and 3 car variants with the 170 pack with their fleet numbers as well. A lot of work went into those packs and with a new timetable as well, for me it justified the cost.

 

Perhaps JT could buy the IP but then again they are primarily a publisher not a coding house. I suspect most of their route content is made by people working in their spare time and not full time in house employees. I sincerely hope DTG aren’t going belly up but they are not helping themselves in the matter. At least two poor quality releases - the Class 90, the lacklustre NE USA route and now it appears the DB 147. Yes the former is from a 3P but ultimately DTG bear the responsibility for accepting and publishing such a dire quality add on. Then there’s the Thomas and Metro Rivals distractions. If the Steam numbers I listed in the Thomas section are reflected across the console editions, then it looks like they may have taken a huge financial hit on this one. And Metro Rivals, well I can’t see that doing very well at all, more money and effort wasted which would have been better spent on some heavy lobbying of MTA to allow a proper NYC Subway route in TSW, or even have done a fictional but proper subway line for TSW.

 

I won't be buying it, I wouldn't even get it on sale or if they were giving it away but that's only because I can't stand the ugly livery, I really do hope the DfT have a rethink and redesign the god awful creation, slightly off topic but when my football club, Everton, redesigned the club badge on the shirt some years back, us fans kicked off at how pure ugly it was and looks like it was designed by a 1yr old - needless to say, it didn't last long!

Slightly off topic again, I have to stick up for the ECML route, I love it, one of my favourite DLC's - plenty of coming and goings with a good high speed run, although I do admit, it would be better with 91+DVT's and HST's

 

I've mentioned this already but the biggest punch in the gut with this add-on is that 802s actually do run on this segment (Hull Trains) but won't ever see the GBR livery because it's open-access and not dependent on franchising.
They might not (probably not) have a license for Hull Trains, so it's looking like we're just getting a railtour pack of a GBR 802 on a route it will probably never run along, and (maybe) be running alongside LNER-branded 801s.
It's just non-sensical.

 

More like "If you have the 802 installed, toilet doors and flush are operational on the IET trains".

 

It came with the green line ice 1 both liveries run in real life I think compared to the terrible concept class 802

 

The amount of times "business experts" have preducted DTG's demise over the years, going back to Railworks days is laughable, yet they are still going.

Where on earth is this concept that DTG are going out of business coming from?

Some clearly like the hyperbole and drama, maybe some want it to happen!

 

Its funny because (correct me if im wrong) DTG is actually expanding and hardly going out of business. With Metro Rivals in development, the release of WoS ontop of several future DLCs for TSW in development (albeit involving 3rd party) and possibly other projects we don't know of yet, its hard to fathom that the business is struggling.

 

Maybe a huge silent majority will be buying on day one at full RRP? There are people out there who believe Voyagers are good so I am convinced that provided the DLC is post 2010, has one power/brake handle, has no hook and shackle couplings, sounds that make a lawn mower seem exciting, has seats which make you want to stand all the way or catch the flixbus/NX, has no opening windows and has a TMS/PIS interface instead of valves and levers then it will sell like hot cakes and bury the chances of ever seeing a loud diesel route (doesnt have to be BR blue as plenty existed up until the early 2000s)

Im off for a lie down now.....