Just speculation now, but could the Class 70 from All Aboard Studios release with a Birmingham New Street - Milton Keynes or Northampton Loop route? The Class 70 and Avanti class 221 used this route, alongside class 350s, so it would be prototypical and would complete the missing part of the WCML South. I'm trying to remember who made the Northampton Loop for TSC, was it Alan Thompson Simulation?
Well the Class 70 is coming as it's own separate add on, but I suppose that doesn't mean necessarily that a Northampton Loop route can't come, although I'd rather it didn't. More than just the flipping WCML exists
I wouldn’t put it past them to do Milton Keynes to Birmingham and include the Northampton loop next but if they do I feel we have a higher chance of getting the class 730 as the rolling stock to to go with said dlc over the 221 as aabs have geared the WCML more towards 2025 and beyond with the introduction of the 805 and soon 807 with tvl and the Avanti 221 doesn’t/wouldnt fit into that narrative
If ATS makes them, watch the route being cut short one stop before Birmingham or something... Yeah, I'm still mad about their 1st route not going to Crewe. Understandable that they had issues doing their 1st ever route and had to cut short then, but then to remain adamant and not going back to complete it is honesty not a good look....
Dude it would cost them quite a bit to finish it and there’s not really anything they could make to help earn back that money pretty sure this has been explained to death like million times now
All I'll say is; can we all take a look at a British rail network map and start finding interesting sections of the network that aren't attached to the WCML please? It's getting very boring now.
Erm the Class 70 doesn't tend to go on the Northampton loop, tends to go along the Bedworth branch from Coventry to Nuneaton as it used to be used by FL Intermodal on the Southampton flows, however now that 70's are Heavy Haul locos, I'm not sure. Colas run a Class 70 to and from Stud Farm, never seen one along the Northampton section in 8 years of driving it. Depending when the route is set, depends whether the Class 221 ran over it (it hasn't for at least 2 years). It currently doesn't run over the route even the Class 222 I believe has got to be route proved later this spring.
You may not have seen class 70s at Northampton, but that doesn't mean they weren't diagrammed there. 70 011 was a regular, and would have used the Northampton Loop for terminal access. Class 70 pool workings: 9th June 2025 70001 DFGI DEWSBURYC 186M87CM05 6 * EARLS SDS N 70002 DFGI SOTON M T 864M61CL05 9 * TRAFFPFLT N 70003 DFGI LEEDS FLT MIDLANDRD F D 70004 DFGI WENTLOOG 774O57CM05 9 * SOTON M T N 70005 DFGI SOTNMT MD SOTON M T T 70006 DFGI MIDLANDRD MIDLANDRD 9 M 70007 DFGI LEEDS FLT 174O90C605 9 * SOTON M T N 70008 DFGI BETLEY RD BASFDHALL F D 70010 DFGI MIDLANDRD MIDLANDRD F X 70011 DFGI TUNSTEAD 346B71CA05 4 * NTHPTN FD N 70014 DFLS GRESTYRSS BASFDHALL N 70015 DFGI SOTON M T SOTON M T 9 M 70016 DFGI SOTON M T SOTON M T 9 N 70017 DFGI SOTON M T SOTON M T 9 N 70020 DFGI LAWLYSFLT 664O38CF05 9 * SOTON M T N 11th June 2025 70001 DFGI EARLS SDS EARLS SDS 6 N 70002 DFGI SOTON M T 864V53C311 9 * WENTLOOG N 70003 DFGI LEEDS FLT MIDLANDRD F D 70004 DFGI SOTON M T SOTON M T 9 N 70005 DFGI LEEDS FLT MIDLANDRD F X 70006 DFGI MIDLANDRD MIDLANDRD 9 M 70007 DFGI LAWLYSFLT 664O38CF11 9 * SOTON M T N 70008 DFGI BASFDHALL CRWBHDTFL D 70010 DFGI LEEDS FLT 174O90C611 9 * SOTON M T N 70011 DFGI TUNSTEAD 346B71CA11 4 * NTHPTN FD N 70014 DFLS BASFDHALL BASFDHALL N 70015 DFGI SOTON M T SOTON M T 9 N 70016 DFGI GARSTNFLT 364O14C511 9 * SOTON M T N 70017 DFGI SOTON M T 864M55CD11 9 * LAWLYSFLT N 70020 DFGI LEEDS FLT MIDLANDRD F X Likely Class 70 trains via Northampton Loop corridor Core intermodal cycle: 4O14 Garston → Southampton 4O38 Lawley St → Southampton 4M61 Southampton → Trafford Park 4M98 Southampton → Midlands/North 4S59 Southampton → Scotland
Birmingham - Crewe was originally ATS’s first route, you might be interested to know. Also, why do they need to ‘complete’ it? It’s like getting upset that WCMLOS doesn’t go to Glasgow, ECML doesn’t go to London, GWE doesn’t go to Oxford. They don’t because the people developing it probably didn’t have the resources to make it possible, or it’s irrelevant from what they are trying to do in the first place.
If we were going to get the Northampton Loop, then it should have formed part of the AABS Trent Valley project, even though they are probably biting off more than they can chew. Otherwise the OP would give us four disjointed sections of the southern WCML rather than the three we will have when TV eventually surfaces. Better still, it would make more sense to extend the original WCMLS to Northampton, where it should have gone in the first place if not Birmingham, but DTG/Rivet got cheap on us and only went to MKC.
WCML South is just generally all over the place. - Route should’ve gone all the way to New Street. Doing Milton Keynes - New Street on its own won’t make for a very interesting route, it’s a rather bland section of route on its own. They absolutely must give it the Dresden - Riesa - Leipzig treatment if anything, while improving route assets using more recent route building techniques to save on resources for consoles. - Original timetable updates, including railtours for the 87 & Scotsman cut due to console texture issues. No word on the improved original timetable that Liam worked on coming out. - Now we have multiple timetables for the route in similar time periods, each with compromises to keep service numbers down for aforementioned texture issues. The Cargo Line timetables are the original TT copied with the DLC’s services added on top as well. Good luck to anyone crazy enough to want to 100% complete every tutorial, scenario and service on this route! I do hope lessons were learnt from this route as the project as a whole seems to have been a bit of a mess.
That’s a very ‘strawman’ take on it. Those routes don’t go (well maybe except GWE) anywhere near those locations & at least end at a more substantial station on their respective route. Where they do end leaves plenty of interest & opportunity for remainders of those lines to come as separate routes. If ECML ended at Retford rather than Doncaster & people asked why it didn’t go there, that would be more similar. If OS stopped at Penrith instead of Carlisle, people would wonder why it didn’t go to the latter. Again much more comparable. Carlisle > North, Peterborough > London, Reading > Onward all leave plenty of opportunity for devs to create those routes in the future. What remains of the line to Crewe offers no real opportunity in that as any Journey between the 2 points is pretty meaningless without the existing MAC line connected to it & the comment you replied to is expressing unhappiness regarding ATS’ unwillingness to extend the line, which is the only feasible option to ever see Manchester > Crewe.
I wouldn't say that. We're getting a very long section of it. I feel that WCML South was a good addition, it's just a shame it didn't go a little further to include the two routes to Rugby and the freightliner terminal. I don't think London to Birmingham was an option back in 2024 because its performance with the core of the game as it was 2 years ago would have made it unplayable on less powerful PCs and many consoles. It feels like there was an ambition to provide us with a big slice of the WCML mainline. AABS needed to make a smaller section as their first release and Crewe to Birmingham made sense, they and DTG would have been aware that Just Trains were taking care of the rest of the English section of the route. So the icing on the cake was the upcoming Milton Keynes to Crewe section from AABS. The problem is that you make some sections of a mainline and people always want more. More branches off that mainline means, more of the same content mostly involving IETs, 350s and 390s. More of the same again and again. So those who do want Milton Keynes to Birmingham or Crewe to Manchester or Crewe to Liverpool or the Northampton loop are basically expecting DTG, 3rd party developers and TSW to cater to the wishes of a diminishing pro-WCML group. We have what we have, enjoy that. The WCML fixation has run it's course. Soon you'll be able to drive from London to Carlisle (admittedly in two different eras) but that's a huge accomplishment by the developers. The focus was on a long distance drive in sections rather than building the perfect WCML with all the main branches. They succeeded. Now it's time to be imaginative, it's time to think of the growing constituency of UK-based TSW players who have supported this WCML project because we want TSW to succeed and grow its player base but don't have any affection for driving along the one mainline. It'll be a shame if a modern ECML is the only focus now because that will upset those who want to see more Provincial, Network South East, Metro, steam, Welsh, Scottish, Anglian, Midland Mainline and South Western and South Eastern content. It's time for change. It's time for more new traction that isn't dedicated to the WCML (though I'll make an exception for the 730), it's time to spread our wings and enjoy other regions and areas and eras of railways in this wonderful country.
To be honest, I’m on about the handling of the route rather than the route itself. The timetable thing is probably the biggest issue I have with the route. With how good AABS’ route building is, I’d like to see them remake WCML South while expanding the route to New Street. Bring it more inline with their other two routes while giving it a nice facelift - Obviously, I don’t expect this to be a free remaster but more along the lines of a LIRR 2.0 situation where it is entirely it’s own route. As for more variety, I do agree. I’m hoping TSG’s improvements to the steam core will revive steam era DLC and BR is in safe hands with JT of course! Riviera was a nice addition and gave us a change of scenery. Hypothetically, if I were allowed to pick the next route that got added to TSW. I’d probably go with the Welsh Marches Line Shrewsbury - Newport. It’s roughly 90 miles, but is a mostly countryside run like WCML Shap so I don’t think that’s an unreasonable route. We have the TfW 150 for layer content, so I’d add the TfW Class 197 new to the route, possible loco DLC would be a TfW Class 158 and the Class 67 + Mk4 sets.
We've got issues with Timetables all over the place in reality. BML without the 700s, vaguely titled ones in ECW, spring instantly to mind. Edinburgh to Glasgow has a diesel timetable that doesn't look very good, I'm not even sure if there's an official one with the 380 in it. I understand Fife Circle is still a mess too. I think the sheer number of WCML content in a short space of time has caused a bit of a muddle, it's caused some traction to not appear and it didn't really give DTG to get the original WCML South timetable sorted and then start inserting new traction as it is released. Maybe if DTG sets up a dedicated "Timetable Team" and takes all of this work in-house so they're in charge of what is included and is also responsible for updates to layer in newly released stuff. It would stop the Class 90 issue for a start. I like multiple timetables but they're clearly a problem for many TSW users.
Whilst I would be happy to have the Northampton Loop to New Street, it would be only half the solution - 350s would take the route MKC - Northampton, but the Avanti services to New Street would take the Rugby - Coventry route, leaving other Avanti services to the north going as far as Rugby
My question to you is, where are you getting your information regarding the flows via Northampton on intermodals? I'm not disputing the stone ones into Castle Yard, but again only seen a Class 66 in there with the stone flows? 4O14 Garston → Southampton - Booked path in RTT is via Banbury could possibly have been a Class 70 4O38 Lawley St → Southampton - Booked via Northampton but is a Class 66 path. 4M61 Southampton → Trafford Park - Booked path in RTT is via Coventry and Bermuda Park was a Class 70 when FLIM had use of them. 4M98 Southampton → Midlands/North - Booked via Coventry, historically a Class 66 path. 4S59 Southampton → Scotland - Booked via Coventry, historically a Class 66 path. SOTON MTN & Midland Road are the maintainence facilities for the Class 70's, so most listed as there were probably in storage.
I would happily tell you, if I didn't think you'd just find an opportunity to dispute everything I say. Then we'd probably spend the next 3 or 4 pages arguing and going all around the Wrekin. So you'll have to do your own investigation this time.
So someone challenges the accuracy of what you claiming/posting with evidence, and you instantly become defensive and you tell me to go and investigate myself, clever argument! I've never said you're wrong, just queried where you got the information from? As from my own experience and research, I haven't been able to find Class 70's on intermodal services along the Northampton loop which you claim happened on some random date in 2025.
Quite, you challenged something I said about Class 90s going to Tilbury, so I did some investigation myself to see what I could find then it turns out you were spot on. They only go to Dagenham Dock now. I had no idea that Tilbury sidings had been de-engerised (is that even a phrase, I'm old I forget stuff). As we proved, when we play nicely like adults we all learn from each other. I mention this now because I found your information to be credible, you clearly know your stuff. I'm less than clued-up on freight, I worked for Network South East so I'm more about passenger trains. I should stay in my lane really, shouldn't I?
DIRFT is right by the Loop — so you get lots of 70 positioning + intermodal. Common headcodes: 4L48 / 4M18 Daventry → Felixstowe 4L49 / 4M19 Felixstowe → Daventry 4M16 / 4L17 Daventry ↔ Southampton These can pass Northampton any time of day depending on pathing. Instead of picking a fight with me, why not go and argue on railforums.co.uk ? https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/freightliner-class-70-workings.287393/?utm_source=chatgpt.com That's where I get all of my information, and I'm sure the majority of members will be happy to enlighten you.
Very informative post. I hate to disappoint you and I'm not arguing with you, I'm using my evidence of being a freight driver to assist your learning. Rail Forums UK is renowned for being wrong on many things. The use of Class 70's to Felixstowe hasn't happened in the last 8 years at least (I live on the GEML, I drive trains on this route in question and I actively know that Ipswich/Tilbury Freightliner depots don't have the traction knowledge on 70's to drive them to FLX (this may have changed in the last 3 months since FLHH was sold and some drivers transferred across). Also all Daventry to Felixstowe traffic that Freightliner run are powered by Class 90's between Ipswich and Daventry when the price of electricity permits and if not it's a Class 66. I cannot comment on 4M16 / 4M17 as that heads off towards Birmingham out of DIRFT towards Southampton, however again, never seen a Class 70 in DIRFT, plenty of 90's, 66's, 88's and 68's, but never a Class 70, and trust me, you tend to notice a Class 70 because of its weird headlight alignment. The only time I can recall a Class 70 being sent along the Northampton loop on intermodals is when the route between Oxford and Birmingham was closed for bridge replacement or something along those lines (not on my route card so can't accurately recall).
I appreciate your reply, and apologise for being defensive and confrontational. Freightliner diagram by pool, not fixed loco diagrams, (the train is diagrammed for Class 70, the loco isn’t), so any available 70 can appear on any of the above jobs. This makes the fleet feel chaotic even though the train diagram pattern is stable. Purely for TSW purposes, a believable Class 70 layer on WCML South / Northampton Loop would include: - Southampton intermodals - Lawley Street intermodals - Trafford Park / Garston flows - Tunstead to Northampton stone Even if rare, it would be very prototypical for 2020–2025.
