I would like to discuss the future of DLCs. The well-known Polish train simulator RailSim offers slightly longer routes than the typical 50–60 km ones we often see. I understand that RailSim is built on a different platform and developed in a different way, but in my opinion, it shows that a train simulator can grow and evolve in a very positive direction. TSW 6 looks visually impressive, but I sometimes feel there is a lack of longer driving experiences. DLCs such as Munich–Augsburg are enjoyable, but in my opinion, they are too short. I am not suggesting routes that require 5–6 hours of continuous driving, but something closer to a 3-hour journey would be ideal. For example, routes from or to Berlin, or something like Amsterdam–Köln, would bring a refreshing change to the current standards of TSW. I am convinced that there are many players who would gladly purchase such DLCs, which would also generate additional revenue for the developers and publishers.
Possible yes, but with caveats I'm afraid as i understand the main problem lies with UE4s way of managing a 3d world, mainly its co-ordinate's system (this was mentioned a while ago in another thread) something to do with the further away you get from the original spawn location i.e. home point, i did some reading myself about this a while ago, and i think the easiest way to explain it is the further you get from 0 in co-ordinates the more the maths that keep the world together becomes unstable, DTG i think gets round this by periodically resetting the player's location to 0 (this is all speculation on my part) there is also another thing to consider as well each route is handcrafted, we already know the average development time for say a 60mile route is somewhere between 6 and 12 months, so a longer route could be yrs in the making depending on scenery density. So to sum up basically yes you can theoretically build a really long route, but you will face limitations in both the engine and the time needed to develop a route like that.
I was thinking about this too. There always seems to be an excuse not to do it. But surely, you don’t know how successful a long route is going to be until you actually try it? It seems like the WCML, at least the British part, is pretty much all ticked off, so perhaps they could use the ECML as a potential trial, London to maybe Leeds?
It's not an excuse mate, is a valid reason, 1 you have actual limits of the engine, that yes can be worked around to an extent, but that isn't a blanket it will work, then you also have development time to consider, triple A games get round this long development cycle by knowing they are going to ship 10s of millions of units, TSW can only dream about those kinds of numbers so you are left with do we make large long cycle routes or do we make many shorter routes to appeal to more players.
Surely a game has to develop and push boundaries to remain appealing. It’s almost as if TSW is in a bit of a rut, churning out similar DLC, often full of bugs, often never fixed, the same core issues and new and developing ones that are similarly never really fixed. How many times have we seen teleporting passengers and floating forests etc? There’s always an excuse as I said earlier, it would just be nice to see a bit more pushing of boundaries. We are on iteration 6, and only now are we seeing GSMR functionality. This game just seems to coast along for the most part. It’s a real shame that RailSim have remained in Poland, it would be nice to see them venture out a little more.
Longer routes we only truly exist as passion projects, but even that is not 100% true. If you manage to get good at using UE4 and route building, eventually you’ll be saying to yourself “why aren’t I getting paid for this” ? Next step you’re on the phone with a DTG representative and appearing on the roadmap six months from now.
I agree as well mate, more competition in this would benefit players greatly, but as it stands there's no incentive for DTG to do more than they are already doing, as horrible as it sounds if they haves no reason to spend more money making better longer routes than they already do, why should they, all comes down to money vs time the same as everything else we have in modern society.
Keep in mind that DTG has access to detailed telemetry showing exactly what people buy and what they play and for how long. If they thought longer routes would be worthwhile to develop, they would. If a third party develops a long route that takes off, that would show something also. But nobody is, for a reason. As was mentioned, a rock solid save system would be a must, for starters.
Why not? I once did the entire run on TSCs Canadian Mountain Passes, which took about 6 hours. Not doing that every day, but it was sure nice to have the option and do it when I had the entire day available. And I still brag about this achievement a few years later
DTG can’t even fix bugs on short routes and we want them to expand to the 3 hour range? Let’s have them fix what’s wrong first before they start pushing the boundaries.
I would imagine they’ll never fix what’s wrong, the list just gets longer and fixes rolled out slower
I certainly think DTG need to start thinking about this. Compare the completely dysfunctional WCML we will have after P2C and MKC2C release, various sections, some overlapping and different eras - particularly if you include SoS from Crewe to Liverpool as well. Rather than issuing yet more disjointed A to B routes they need to be going down the road of rebuilds and extensions. NTP needs to go from Liverpool to Scarborough. TVL needs to extend to Bishop Auckland, Boulby, Whitby and along the Durham Coast to Newcastle, Or start simple and extend Cardiff City to include Barry Island and one or more full runs up the South Wales Valleys. Sadly, DTG seem to have neither the vision or inclination to do any of this, or even the in house route building talent anymore they could call on to do this.
Preston to Carlisle is a good length as is London Commuter i would like to see Routes end like London Commuter instead of like cutting it off in the middle
The Kassel-Würzburg route has services lasting over two hours, one even lasting 2:34 hours. The new Liberec-Stará Paka route also has many services lasting two hours or more. I wouldn't say I play this often. It's just difficult and requires a fair amount of time. Yes, you could say there are saves. But then what's the point of a long route? You still get through it in a few sessions.
I'm pretty sure DTG mentioned that the sweet spot seems to be journeys of around an hour in TSW according to their stats. Personally, I'm happy with anything up to 2 hours but that does mean I'm less likely to do a return run. Whereas if it's an hour or just over then I will usually walk to the other end and head back to where I started.
I read some rumors a couple of weeks ago that the RailSim want to go more forward, like Berlin–Poznań. It will take a while, but I feel like they will grow somehow. Same as the locomotives in their sim, they have more functionality than what we have in TSW 6. For example, the Vectron is a nice locomotive, but there is not much happening compared to the Pendolino from RailSim. Why doesn’t DTG just make all locomotives at the level of the BR101 Expert? It should be like in flight sims: there is an amazing Fenix Airbus A320 on study level, PMDG Boeing on study level, and not just a dummy aircraft. Train Sim—as the name says—is a sim. TSW 6 at the moment is more a game than a sim. I don’t want to insult this product, because I’m enjoying it, but there should be more changes in the direction of “simulation.” Of course, I can imagine that UE4 limits the developers, but nowadays it should all be possible. Looking at Euro Truck Simulator 2, it has been on the market for so many years and is still growing, with nice prices for DLCs. They are planning to reach the Asian market, such as Seoul and Japan, and to add passenger coaches and so on. They grow. Here in TSW 6, we are experiencing expensive DLCs and, at some point, boring gameplay, because how many times can we drive Köln–Aachen with an ICE, or even with a cargo train? At some point, the appetite grows together with the food we are eating. People would like to have more. About the time of developing longer routes: how many people are working in the studio? Two or three? That’s how Euro Truck Simulator started. Now look at them after years—how many people are working there. Each team is responsible for a sector of the map. It’s a business: if you want to make profit, you need to invest and grow, and search for solutions. In my opinion, DTG should go forward step by step. Maybe there are some plans we don’t know about, but we can definitely expect something after years of eating reheated steak.
I think that eventually, regardless of DTG doing it, we'll get there. More and more 3rd parties are starting to take a look at TSW, someday one of them will probably take it on as as passion project. As others have mentioned, the save system would be in need of an overhaul in order to accommodate that distance. Best thing I could think of really is a checkpoint system, where the game sets a save checkpoint every now and then that are placed on the path. Then again, I have absolutely zero clue on how Unreal Engine handles that stuff, and I dont have much faith that DTG will Quality Control such a massive undertaking.
Agreed, and this is why route merging is such a big thing for me. A 2 hour "stint" limits me to slow freight on long routes like WCMLoS. It would be nice to drive something fast for a good amount of time and have a bunch of them on a timetable.
One solution for having longer routes is to improve the route hopping system so that you don't have to leave the driver's seat... Those who want a short session can do an Euston - Tring service, and others can go as far as Crewe on a Pendolino.
It's worth checking out the thread on the BR145 Expert. Some people seriously bought it and are finding it DIFFICULT! You can't just take it and ride it like any other locomotive. The Czech route and semi-expert locomotives are again complicated and unclear.
I still didn’t test the Czech route; however, I plan to buy it soon, with a couple of fears, as usual when buying DLCs—which trains and locs I can use there additionally. That’s another point in this game: you buy a DLC, but you can’t combine it or use it with other routes, etc. Really? I’m afraid to buy the BR145, because it’s not the cheapest DLC. However, I’m still questioning myself if I can use those wagons that come with the BR145 Expert with other locomotives, such as the Vectron, for example on the route Garmisch–Innsbruck, and so on. Additionally, my TSC-X controller will not work with this locomotive, same as with the BR 101 Expert from TSG, because the axes are not recognizable.
Carlisle to Glasgow would be nice. Once the WCML is complete, I'll be finished with TSW, as it's the only mainline I'm interested in.
You can just read the route description and Conclude that there are only two new Czech trains there. Plus BR642. We don't have any more Czech locomotives in our game. Expert simulation costs money. It can't be cheap. The upside is probably the highest number of replacements. The number of services is simply off the charts. You're contradicting yourself. You want expert locomotives, but you're not buying them because they don't support a third-party controller. Look at the prices, though long routes will clearly be more expensive than regular ones.There are contradictions all around. I think DTG gives a good picture of the average player. What routes do they play, what trains do they use, what gaming platform do they use, and how much time do they spend on each route. And according to these statistics, it's doing something average, adjusted for the capabilities of consoles (which are obviously outdated). Making a niche product is possible, but it won't appeal to the same number of players. At least compared to planes and trucks.
They've announced Dresden Görlitz like 3 years ago. But we still don't have a single screenshot of the route. So Berlin is absolutely not gonna happen. At least not in the next 5 years or so.
I enjoy SimRail but their ambitions seem to outweigh the capacity to deliver. Also disappeared off the radar is the US route which I believe Searchlight were supposed to be developing for them. And while the route network grows, much of it is rather samey... Double (or more) track electrified main line, relatively straight with few challenges in terms of gradients etc.
I don’t think I’m contradicting myself. When I expect an “expert” locomotive in terms of realism in how it is driven and operated, I also expect it to work with a basic— not even professional—product like the TSC-X controller. Why are other developers able to provide support for such a controller, but in TSW 6 it somehow isn’t possible? What is limiting it this time? We’re not talking about building a full home cockpit like in flight simulators, where there are thousands of buttons and functions. We’re talking about something simple—basic axis input for the throttle. Is that really such a miracle in 2026, given today’s technological capabilities? That’s exactly why I don’t believe I’m contradicting myself when I talk about an “expert” or so-called “study level” locomotive. For me, these two things are not related at all. Let’s move on to the statistics. Don’t you think those statistics look the way they do simply because players don’t have any other options? It doesn’t really make sense to base statistics on a route that lasts 30 minutes. What would those statistics look like if there were routes that lasted, say, two hours? Unfortunately, we don’t know, because such routes don’t exist. It would be much simpler to run a survey and ask users what they would actually like to see in DLC. That way, we could determine through voting whether things are really the way you say they are. Statistics don’t determine whether someone wants longer routes in DLC. They can be used to measure other things, but not player preferences about what they want or don’t want.
I'm sure it would be nice but perhaps you can wait patiently like the rest of us have had to for the mainlines we're interested in?
There’s nothing worse when routes are cut off half way… Bernina Line is a great example of this… I can’t stand it. All routes should be in full… Thankfully route Extensions CAN happen later down the road but i feel extensions are only going to happen if the devs feel it’s worth it. Really though they should be in full from the start. I understand if some routes are hours and hours long. Thats different. Like the ECML and WCML for example. Obviously that can’t be done as one entire route and I’m ok with that aslong as it’s done in parts. I do think routes should start being a bit longer. Time to build longer routes that are 2 hour runs from start to end. 2 hours is long. But not too long. Atleast I think so. The one downside I can see happening is the price of DLC will go up. I honestly wouldn’t surprised if routes started becoming £45 - £50+ if they were 2 hours long…. That’s a lot of money per route.
And once again we come back to "If the save system was better people who only like playing in short bursts would find long routes more accessible".
I don’t know about you guys, but without a save feature, I don’t have time to run anything longer than an hour. If I’m lucky, I can run up to an hour and a half. If they add a better save feature where you can pickup multiple runs in different places, fine. But if I wanted to run a 3+ hour train, I’d quit my job and sign up to do the real thing as a true train engineer.
MSFS has a bunch of study level aircraft and then they have a bunch that are just pickup and play. Even the study level have quick options to allow for someone to just pick up and fly. MSFS also has AI system to allow sim pilots to control as much or as little as the person wants. If you make every train expert level, you are significantly lowering your customer and user base. If they have similar options to MSFS, then I think it could work from a sales/customer perspective. That being said, the other issue might be licensing. Trains are much easier to access than planes. So I don’t think the real train operators want people using study level trains in a sim to avoid the potential for the stolen MTA subway or the Horizon Air Q400 (for a plane example) incidents.
Is it possible that 3.5 people out of all players use it? Yes, I'm exaggerating, of course, but it's not a mass-market product. The vast majority of players play with a gamepad. And even then, the DTG can't use all the buttons so we have the same bell, instead of pressing a button in the cockpit or reaching for the keyboard. DTG ek DTG even saves on localizing third-party DLC. We have a ready-made translation for BR145 Expert, which was done in a couple of evenings. You don't even need to pay; get it for free so you don't have to install it as a separate mod. Unfortunately, this is a cost-cutting measure.Do you want third-party controller support? We have services that last more than two hours. I gave an example above. Plus, services can often be completed in a chain. This is especially common with shunting locomotives. The FTF has a small shunting service divided into four parts. I completed it without leaving the cabin. It took over three hours, with time accelerated through the God Mod, while I waited for the next part to start. I also completed freight runs on a high-speed container train on a BR101 expert in Kassel-Würzburg. It's over two hours. I'd say it's simply physically challenging. It's not boring, it's just complicated. It's no coincidence that even on today's "short" routes we see services being split into parts. For me personally, an hour per service is optimal. An hour and a half is generally fine. About two hours or more—and that's not for every gaming session. It's time to plan 3 free hours so that no one bothers you. But it's not that simple. I think this whole pursuit of length will backfire. We're being held back by consoles and potato-sized PCs.DTG got burned with the number of services for different platforms. Let's remember Frankfurt S-Bahn. Great timetable, but only on PC. Now they always make a full timetable on consoles too. They need more services; too few services are bad. A second problem emerges: by achieving a large number of services, they appear to follow the principle of strl+s - strl+v. The depth of route utilization decreases. The Stuttgart-Heilbronn route, for example, has businesses marked and fast transfer points to them. But no services go there. All shunting operations are simply a dumb copy. No delivery to the power plant, metallurgical plant, Mercedes plant, etc. Frankfurt S-Bahn is the same. On the new New York Stamford route They did a great job. But there was a fly in the ointment: the locomotives don't have cab signaling. If we increase the route's length even further, what a mess it will be...
Because while I am happy to do it in one session not everyone would be, and more ways to play is more good.
Bottom line: 1% travel the entire route in one go. The rest don't see the entire route because they use saves.What is the fundamental difference between a long route and several sessions on a short route I don't understand it at all. We already have examples of routes with services for +2 hours. It doesn't seem like everyone is playing them.
Several sessions on a short route you always see the same things, in fact, you stay put. It's just another option. It doesn't take anything away from those who like to play short sessions. That said, for the same duration, I prefer to cover a long distance at high speed, rather than a relatively short distance but at very low speed.
Why play WCMLoS when you can go backwards and forwards for an equivalent amount of time on Blackpool Branches? There isn't much to understand here. If we don't have anything that everyone isn't playing we wouldn't have anything.
I think it’s not about completing the route in parts; it’s about being safe if something happens. For example, a red light—what happens when I cross the red signal? Does it really bring me back to the beginning of the route? Checkpoints are a solution, but bringing the player back to the beginning of the route… come on.
Sounds nice, but I have a huge PS5 and Steam library backlog to clear before 2075. I hope you get your routes soon too, because you probably don't have that long left.
Is there a way to create a long route ut split it so you have to 'load in' to the other half halfway into the route? like there is in many games.
You can also see the effect of any delays reflect on how the service is running as you progress, which you can’t do with the farcical route hopping facility. I rarely do more than 45 to 60 minutes at a time, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want to take the same train all the way from Euston to Glasgow over several sessions. For starters it’s not healthy to sit staring at a monitor for hours at a time (god knows I did plenty of that at work) but there’s no need for that to preclude having longer routes. Now the save game system is working better in SimRail I’ve done a couple of drives the length of their core route with the same train saving and resuming as necessary. Heck even TSC if you have some of the merged routes you can do that. Let’s face it, the only thing holding us back is that DTG are either technically inept or CBA to sort out the save game function properly - as testified by the fact they dropped it for the TSW In All But Name, i.e. Wonders Of Sodor. And if the save game worked as it should, not only could you do the long routes in more than one session, but when you got to the terminus and decided to work another train back it would hold up for that too, instead of as now and blatantly ignored by DTG, losing the objective data when you reload the save.
Not always true tho. Most of the services of Kassel - Würzburg are very long (at least 1,5 hours) with only a few services being shorter. So i hardly ever drive on KWG, because when do I find the time to play that long in one session? This route is one of the longest in TSW, yet you have way less possibilities than a route like Bremen-Oldenburg. Or look at the LGV - also one of TSW's longest routes. Yet all services are basically identical.
I'm a bit torn on the route length topic. I prefer doing a service in one sitting, even if there were a better savegame functionality. It's just my inner completionist, when I start a service I have to, no, need to finish it. Or else I couldn't go to sleep with good conscience That's why I enjoy routes which offer a blend of shorter and longer services. This way, I can choose considering how much time and motivation I have. Let's take Frankfurt-Fulda for example, one of my favourite routes in this regard: If I just wanna have some 20 minute fun for in-between, I'll go for one of those Frankfurt-to-Hanau or S-Bahn services. If I have an hour of spare time to kill, I'll go for the Wächtersbach services, or an ICE service. If I've got more free time and enough motivation, I'll do a whole-length regional run to/from Fulda. On the other side of the coin, there is Liberec-Stará Paka. It's an amazing route and a ton of fun But the passenger services are all in the 80 to 120 minute range... so when I want to do one of those services in one go, I have to plan my schedule around it. Bottom line: I'm all game for long routes, but ideally they should offer an amount of services with different lengths. A versatile timetable makes a lot of difference.
