Why Are There No German Routes From The 70s?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by QO1922, Apr 16, 2026 at 12:39 PM.

  1. QO1922

    QO1922 Member

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    Hello, as the title says I wonder why there are no German (or Central European) routes from the 60s-70s-80s. In the TSC the exact same thing happens and it is a strange phenomenon, after so many years and we do not have any routes from this era. On the contrary in the USA and UK there are routes from the 1970s period (TSC and TSW). Could it be a licensing issue (DR)? a political issue (West and East Germany)? a matter of interest?

    Thanks,
     
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  2. MadduckUK

    MadduckUK Active Member

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    What's the TSW UK 1970's route?
     
  3. foggy#2817

    foggy#2817 Well-Known Member

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    There is clearly a market for 80s UK / British trail stuff. gauging the reaction of people on this forum to releases from that era. Don't see that many asking for German and US content, except maybe for steam trains.
     
  4. dal#7945

    dal#7945 Well-Known Member

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    I can only think of one route set in the 70s and thats clinchfield route. Correct me if im wrong tho please.
     
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  5. foggy#2817

    foggy#2817 Well-Known Member

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    Probably true for TSW. Don't know about TSC though.
     
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  6. MJCKP

    MJCKP Well-Known Member

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    The upcoming Neckartalbahn will be set in 1974 :love:

    I think TSG said they would consider any time between 1945 and 1994, they might be moving back in time slowly with each route so there is more rolling stock to use for the next one
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2026 at 12:59 PM
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  7. noir

    noir Well-Known Member

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    Dovetail is and always was super scared to touch any part of history with potentially negative connotations. The demand is clearly there, but the supply will have to come from third parties.
     
  8. GeraltDW

    GeraltDW Well-Known Member

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    Would def love to have some DR / ex-DR stuff. Imagine some Halbersdtädter wagons those beige/green and beige/orange and a Ludmilla or so. :D
     
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  9. dave#4723

    dave#4723 Active Member

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    In a way, I'd love to see a ~2000 era route by TSG, just so we can have TSG's Expert loco's on their extrememly detailed routes. Wonder how many agree with this.
     
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  10. foggy#2817

    foggy#2817 Well-Known Member

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    Aren't they already doing that with Nürnberg-Ingolstadt? The expert 101 will feature there.
     
  11. -_-LivvuAurora-_-

    -_-LivvuAurora-_- Well-Known Member

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    Definitely a third party job that, DTG themselves is unlikely to do such a thing anytime soon even if it would be incredibly interesting.
     
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  12. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    The Ludmilla was already on the Roadmap once, developed by TSG. It was added to the Roadmap back in the TSW2 Days, along with the BR 420. I have no idea if it will ever be released.
     
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  13. GeraltDW

    GeraltDW Well-Known Member

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    Hope someone will do one. From TSG would be great, tho. :)

    There'd of course also be opportunity for more stuff, like a 120 (Wumme), 118 (Babelsberger), Railbus (Ferkeltaxe) ect - I think these are all pretty rare among simulators.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2026 at 3:05 PM
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  14. Caravatt

    Caravatt Well-Known Member

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    Ludmilla :cool: (currently developed by TSG)

    My personal wishlist:

    - Dr Doppelstockwagen (both gen)
    Dosto.jpg

    - Dr 120 "Taigatrommel"
    120.jpg

    - Dr 230 "Knödelpresse"
    230.jpg

    Without forgetting those "U boats" (119) :love:
    119.jpg

    1970s/80s Eastern Germans screaming: "we want to be brought in!" :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2026 at 7:12 PM
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  15. GeraltDW

    GeraltDW Well-Known Member

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    Now we talking :D
     
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  16. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    Is that still the Case? The last I heard was that Development was supposed to continue once BR 420 is released, and this DLC is currently stuck in development hell.

    Did I miss any News about the BR 232?
     
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  17. Caravatt

    Caravatt Well-Known Member

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    Had been put on hold some time ago. Then dev resumed and (according to Markus?) should proceed behind scenes!
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2026 at 7:30 PM
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  18. Puddington Bear

    Puddington Bear Well-Known Member

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    "Economically speaking there's no target group of significant size to make a profit."

    I've heard the same reasoning 20 years ago in the old MSTS era from German Railroads. They were known for producing historic railway lines. They made two and a half Eastern German routes and 6,5 Western German routes. Back then there at least was a target audience for that content - early Gen X, Baby Boomers and the last cohorts of Gen White. Now, 20 years later it's still the same demographic, but they're 20 years older, their lives have changed or, in the case of Gen White, ended naturally already. Those are the only generations to have experienced those eras.

    "Pretty small target audience."

    Now, the Western German content may still be of interest, prominently in Western Germany, which has a stronger economy than East Germany. It might be feasable to test that out and TSG are doing that with Neckartalbahn.

    Eastern German content may also be of interest, but the target audience is demographically smaller and is economically in a weaker position.

    There's also the technology issue with older generations, most Baby Boomers don't own a gaming PC or their last console was Gen 7.

    That's what I was told 20 years ago and how the alleged target audiences are faring now from what I am able to observe at least.

    What wasn't mentioned 20 years ago were younger Gen X, Millenials and Gen Z, mostly because the latter two were still in school and not part of the economy yet. Now, today's digital world is a completely different one than it was 20 years ago. Gaming has changed significantly, social media plays an enormous role in most people's lives, interests shifted.

    There is a community of young(er) railfans who would love to experience those times their parents and grandparents told them about, experience decades of steam in regular revenue service. But that community is relatively small compared to the ones of games like Fortnite, Roblox, COD, GTA.... and the gaming business is not in a good position these days.

    1990's content is in a better position to sell, Millennials are the next in line for their obligatory mid-life-crisis, so they're a good target audience now, economically speaking. 1980's might also be in a better position due to Gen X's and early Millennials' nostalgia.

    Politically there are some issues with German content of those eras before reunification. There were MSTS routes from multiple publishers depicting historic Western and Eastern German railways. The western ones are less "problematic", the eastern ones were, but they were still produced. Mind you, MSTS was anything but immersive in comparison to what we have nowadays to play with.

    How immersive could an Eastern German route be without all the political propaganda and human rights violations in public? Would we want GDR transport police on the platforms? Would we complain if they weren't there because it's not era-appropriate without showing that side of the GDR? Or all the propaganda posters. Would they be missed? How would they be replaced and by what? Who'd be the one to throw the first stone and declare the route is glorifying or hiding the signs of the former regime?

    Personally I would love to see content, both Western and Eastern German, of the 1980's and ealier. From a purely nostalgic, railfan perspective there is so, so much interesting possible content.

    But how to realise them and not step on any major group's toes with railway safety boots and who to sell it in either state of the content?

    A safer bet would be something set in the early 1990's in my eyes and here's why:
    East Germany
    • Railway infrastructure in East Germany was still mostly the same as it was before the fall of the Berlin Wall, workshops and depots were metaphrical bee-hives for all kinds of traction,
    • Steam traction was officially a thing of the past, but there were countless engines still in steam to heat turnouts, depots and factories,
    • The cadre of "Traditionsloks" of the Deutsche Reichsbahn was in large parts well maintained and in steam, being used for railtours,
    • "Plandampf" was created during that time, there were so many events where the DR put their steamers into revenue service,
    • Most Diesel and electric locos, along with most rolling stock of the GDR and pre WWII times were still in service or preserved,
    • The infrastructure and the cities mostly looked like they did in the 1980's, but without the propaganda (the people were sick of it and tore down communist era monuments and propaganda posters already).

    West Germany
    • A colourful mix of rolling stock, Diesel and electric traction were spread over the republic,
    • Railbuses from the 1950's were still in services, side by side with the first ICE and multiphase current electrics,
    • Steam was allowed back onto Bundesbahn tracks and it came from East and West Germany,
    • Another transition time to the Produktfarben era with new trains like the ICE and the InterRegio, the Citybahn and S-Bahn systems,
    • Many depots and workshops of old days were still open for business and you could still tell a "Railway-City" from the (already reduced, but still existent) hustle and bustle.

    There were endless possibilities on the horizon in the minds of the people of both Germanys and more than some came true, for railfans at least, on the tracks of both German states.

    There could be dozens of Livery-Gameplay-Packs sold alone for extra layers with colourful trains of both state railways and before everything became uniformed in the 2000's and early 2010's. So if it's colour people want, there's either the current era, but it'd need lots of licenses or 1990's where there were mostly the big two state railways painting with their whole palettes.

    Anyway, that's just my personal take on the matter and economic guesses adapted from 20 year old statements of now defunct game developers.
     
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  19. GeraltDW

    GeraltDW Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that crossed my mind, too. Shortly after reunification would be a nice alternative to avoid all the political stuff but have still those cool trains. Also it was an awesome mix of both worlds on the rails, like you said. :)
     
  20. vodka#2734

    vodka#2734 Well-Known Member

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    A real heartbreak for players from the former Soviet Union. Okay, the BR232 didn't work in the former USSR, only its younger brother, the 2TE116.
    upload_2026-4-17_0-6-47.jpeg
    But Lyudmila can still occasionally be seen at work, usually on service trains.
     

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