Anyone else seeing this? I have all mods disabled. The first and last timetables here are identical, same distance travelled and same list of trains. JB
Here on pc yes here the same issue! Kezz Is this intentional? And can you please check the class 805 buttons? They have black things instead of the right button symbols
Well from the first few replies I'm going to assume everyone is seeing the same issue across all platforms, particularly as it also affects Xbox users. Kezz mentioned in another thread that the patch added two new timetables to B2C (reduced versions of the original "2019" and the 805's "Modern" TT) and that the two existing ("full") timetables were left in place for users with higher-end machines who wish to use them. It therefore seems someone at DTG was tasked with installing the B2C patch to test the two reduced timetables, yet somehow failed to notice that two of the four timetables we're supposed to now have on B2C were missing and one was duplicated. I'm starting to think they're outsourcing the testing to people who've never seen the game as this sort of thing should be glaringly obvious (same as the 90). - The original, full 2019 TT is now gone or has been overwritten by the reduced TT (no railtours) - The 805's original (full) timetable has been duplicated and there's no sign of the reduced one. Some cracking work there...
They arent duplicated. One is reduced and one is the full TT for B2C, they've left the wording out which has obviously caused confusion. The main TT is the one with 26 layers, while the reduce has 25 layers! also if you have done services the full TT will have those you have ticked off and the reduce should be all blank.. While they still have the same amount of playable services the difference is in the AI with the reduced version heavily removing AI to aid Consoles, mainly Xbox Series S.. You'll also be able to tell if you go to places like Crewe where one TT will make Crewe a Ghost town so to speak (thats the reduced)
That explains a few things. I was wondering why the blank duplicate TT was so quiet. I hope they add (reduced) to the title soon as it’s bound to confuse a lot of people.
can we just collectively start calling any reduced timetables for a 9th gen/PC route an 8th gen timetable. we are being given PS4/Xbox One levels of content now on all machines and being told its 'optimisation' c'mon DTG, call it what it is, an 8th gen timetable
Yea i know i think someone said in another thats the difference. You'd think they would call it something different
same playable services, same playable layers, less AI services and one less layer than the default 805 timetable. for all intents and purposes it might as well be exactly identical.
This thread is about the fact that they are duplicates. There is no difference. They both have the same name. They both have 575 services They both have the Jubilee and Flying Scotsman as layers which we are told are supposed to be gone from the reduced timetable. There is no reduced timetable, just the full one twice. Sound like you're actually seeing the reduced timetable in your case, can we get a screenshot of your timetable selection screen (the one I show in my opening post)? JB
it was actually only the JT Class 86/87 railtours that were removed from what im gathering by other peoples comments and the steam railtours werent being removed at all - which would be another score for DTG and their absolutely top tier community managers/public facing teams who screwed up the messaging.
Yes they are named the same and have the same number of playable services, its the AI services that has changed to make one reduced vs one full as mentioned Removing majority of the AI services for one TT is to provide less impact for Xbox series S, without hurting the playable aspect to the game for the player..so technically they are different irrespective of playable service
. Well, I went back to check. I have all layers activated i but I don't have any 86/87 services in any of the B2C timetables now, which suggests the original (full) timetables have indeed been overwritten by the reduced ones, one of which appears twice. I've performed an integrity check in case any files were missing, still the same. I'm getting a lot of replies about what should be there but I'm yet to see any screenshots of the B2C timetable selection screen showing all four timetables...
i have three timetables, the 805 one (original 805) the normal one at launch and the "supposed" reduced 805 timetable. i can also confirm that there are no 86/87 railtours in the original lauch timetable or either of the 805 timetables but i DO still have the Class 323 railtour and the two steam services (one railtour and one ECS) I may be mistaken but i dont think the 86 or 87 were EVER in the 805 timetables, that was always just the two steam services and the 323 railtour, no?
i think maybe i am now confused as well, is there supposed to be a 4th unaltered timetable for the default GJR launch timetable. making 2 805 timetables (1 normal, 1 reduced) and 2 regular ones (1 reduced, 1 normal)?
B2C only has 3 TT mate.. 2 evero and 1 2019 original The 2019 had the 86/87 railtour taken away (I cant comment on anything else there as I dont play that TT), while the Two Evero modern TTs have the exact same number of playable services The AI services that come and go to/off the map that a player can not control is what has reduced for one of the TTs (my understanding its the one with 25/25 layers) to aid with the console issues faced so at least they can still play the same amount of gameplay services, but unfortunately AABS did not alter the naming so that's why it looks like you have duplicates but they are not. Take a Deep breath you aren't missing out on anything.. I dont know how much clearer I can be to the situation.
Im on PC so I dont have said issues so sorry I cant help there, Im only going off what I have read/had responses regarding this on discord
Yes that's possible, I don't remember. However I don't see how someone on low spec hardware is supposed to select the reduced timetable if it has the same name and same number of driveable services as the full one The opposite is true for people with high end gaming rigs, who will find themselves needlessly running the reduced timetables... Inexistent QA, as always. Yes, that's what this thread is about. According to Fuzz there are supposed to be two full and two reduced timetables, but now flukey is telling us there are only three. Since nobody states who they're associated with in their signatures, we don't know who is a developer and who is just giving their opinion or understanding. This is not what we've been told by AABS. Ok but I paid to have access to that and I have a PC that can handle it. I'm not on console so I'm not interested in a reduced TT, especially one that has the same name as the full one. The state of DLC on release is already very poor value for money once you realise it's in an unfinished state but yes, let's just allow DTG to remove features from DLC we've purchased and not say anything. I don't remember that being in the EULA. If you're DTG or AABS you may want to indicate it in your username or signature so that people know you're speaking from a position of knowledge.
Sorry bud, 100% not an employee of AABS or DTG, i am just a regular idiot who thinks they know stuff lol. Admittedly if it wasnt for the fact that my already completed services are still there, i wouldnt know which 805 timetable was the reduced one untill i found myself at crewe or BNS and it was empty, even adding 'reduced' would have helped here.
Kezz Was this a typo error when submitting the TT’s during Q&A? One should be reduced, and one full. There’s a lot of conspiracy theories going around to why there’s two duplicate TT’s. It would be great to get a response from an official AABS dev. Thanks.
Sorry that wasn't aimed at you, rather the people giving authoritative answers on what's been done and what's supposed to be there, without disclosing if they actually work for the developer or if they're just a random forum member who doesn't actually know anything more than the rest of us.
https://allaboardstudios.co.uk/wcml-birmingham-to-crewe-timetable-deep-div Unsurprisingly, documentation has not yet been updated to reflect reality after the bait and switch.
In addition to the mess with the names, the lack of clarity over service removals and the communication around these timetables, I've also just noticed the game is telling me I've completed only four Class 390 services across the 2019 and Modern (805) timetables, regardless of which of the duplcate timetables I click on. It looks like many of the short Crewe - Stafford and Stafford - Crewe player services have been either deleted or replaced, contrary to what we've been told about only AI services getting canned. The 805 timetable is the one I've spent the most time on in TSW over the past few months, so I know I haven't done only four services in the 390 (which is listed as my most used train)... I seem to remember something about making space for services from Trent Valley, but that doesn't make sense either as it's a separate route and uses the same trains...
Oh god i hope layer services dont need original services to be nerfed... pardon me, i mean 'optimised' for them to fit. who would honestly given the chance give up playable services on one route so that an entirely different routes services can fit, who ever doesnt buy the new thing is just getting bent over and not offered any lube even.... this is becoming slowly but surely just Dovetail telling us to bite the pillow
Seems the problems are endless. Firstly, the 390/0 and 390/1 are displayed in the opposite order to how they were before, with the 390/1 now at the top of the list. I've confirmed this by grabbing a screenshot of Train Sim Society's "Brutally Honest Review" of WCML B2C from October (on the left) The WMR 170/5 and 170/6 are still in the correct order on B2C, and the 390/0 and 390/1 are still in the correct order on MAC, so it's related to the 390 on this route only (as far as I can tell). Then, it's telling me I've completed only 3 out of 61 services for the 390 overall, but )in this screenshot you can see I've completed 5 of them in this particular 2.5 hour section of the 390/0 timetable alone, so where's it getting 3 from? How is it possible to get a simple count calculation wrong? I'm also seeing this on the Class 166 on GWE:R, which is showing 0 services completed. The more I play this game, the more amazed I am that it actually launches.
I've just checked and I can see plenty of short services between Crewe and Stafford with the 805 and 390 on the 2025 timetable and with the 350 and 390 on the 2019 timetable. I don't think the 2025 timetable has ever included 350 services that run only between Stafford and Crewe. I believe they will be included with the 350/4, but I'm not sure. Candace provided this list from the AABS team back in January: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...t-class-805-out-now.96349/page-2#post-1086073 There are 14 807 services coming and 63 with the "350-CMK", which I am presuming is the 350/4
I haven't mentioned the 350, I'm talking about the 390 services. As I stated in my last post, it turns out this updates swaps the order of the 390/0 and 390/1 in the list, so if you don't notice and click on the one at the top which used to be the 390/0, all the short morning services are "missing" because the 390/1 doesn't do any such runs between 09:00 and 12:00, whereas the 390/0 has four of them. I know testing teams don't know the software inside out because they have millions of tiny aspects to look at, and they may not even be train fans, but sometimes with cases like this, with stats being reduced or reset to zero, it's just glaringly obvious they don't have an interest in the game. I think DTG need to consider involving the community in testing of DLC as they (presumably) do with the core, because with the amount of bugs that get through they're effectively starting the beta stage on release day.
This was also why I asked for confirmation from AABS! We can only guess what’s going on in this strange situation. In any case, this update is a complete mess, and the 805 is so broken that nothing about it seems right. Maybe another build got mixed up again, and this isn’t even the correct version?! Kezz
Wtf is going on with this route? They locked the other thread about removed content with a super sketchy explanation. I haven't played TSW in weeks tbh but clearly something has gone very wrong in the dev pipeline
The only comment i know for sure was deleted was my one, which was a quote reply to the one with the youtube video link, i made a claim about what the person in the video was allegedly doing before the video started and im 110% sure that it was in poor taste but not breaching any rules. more just suuuuupppppeeeeerrrrr pointed and accusatory. As for the route, i cant speak for anyone other than myself here, but the issue is that content is being/has been removed from the route across all platforms and new reduced timetables introduced. what we were advertised and sold is effectively being altered and lessened after purchase without warning and that feels like being cheated. it honestly feels like a bait and switch and thats not cool.
and after all of that, it still blurs at all the same places, in all the same ways. so it double plus feels like being beaten and told to stop hitting ourselves. Edit: adding that on review i cant seem to find the comments from Kezz who was reassuring that no playable services had been removed and why the Railtours were removed across all platforms not just the consoles. Without the original comment i cant quote it or even get it verbatim myself, but it was explaining the PS5 mounting issues and wht the classes 86 & 87 were removed from the PC version as well as the console ones. Kezz mentioned some details on why they needed to do it this way and the process but i kinda think THAT was what the "commenter deleted at the studio's request" as i cant find it on any of the other threads from this morning
Very interesting. Sounds like that info was supposed to be a secret for some reason. Maybe they're afraid of flak from Sony cause it kinda paints their brand in a bad light? God knows lol
It's sunday today. with most corporate types not working today its most likely just an innocent attempt to remove confusing/conflicting info to help keep the party line clean until monday when a more clear statement can be made. There is/was a lot of confusion around the update to the Birmingham to Crewe and i think (with the most glass half full attitude i can muster) Candice was just trying to help calm everything down and prevent further missinformation or confusion spreading
Kezz replied in that thread. If I'm not mistaken, his statement now has been gone, including my reply on it. So did he say something DTG didn't like, maybe about the mount issue and removal of the railtour? Is this possibly something similar to why the dev of the class 90 do not respond anymore? Are those 3rd party devs being to honest and now being shut down? Somehow this feels not right and leaves me with a lot of questions.
strangely I have downloaded previous 805 version (using steam console) to fix the panel bugged buttons and the duplicated timetables for both B2C and WCMLS are gone (the duplicated/reduced timetables seem to be tied to 805 pak file) also I have downloaded ALP-45DP version from 28 Oct 2025 and the "the next stop is" announcements are back steam console is magic
