Dtg Needs To Stop Selling Tsw On Consoles (from A Console User)

maybe all Pullup need do is fire the team leads, and perhaps even the c suite at DTG, maybe we dont need a whole new studio, just new studio direction.

 

That assumes that they could hire someone to take the job on One look at this forum by a prospective dev would be enough to scream “run away!”

 

then i guess its "Help me Open-Source Kenobi, you're my only hope!"

 

That is a Rivet Games product.

 

it sure didnt stop DTG Matt from saying the fixes were coming, also the Scotrail 170, the WMT/XC 170 and the ECW 171/377.... Are.. all.. rivet.. products..

 

Dovetail apparently have the final and full un-vetoable say on what gets released and when it gets released. i would argue even how it gets released. So when Skyhooks patches get held for no reason for the 158, when JT's patches get held for no reason for the 86 and when ATS' updates get held for no reason for the MAC - i think it is very very VERY fair to lay the blame squarely at DTG's feet.

The sound set updates for the Scotrail 170 should not have been held behind ANY paywall DLC as anyone who got the fife circle has already paid for that train and the correct sounds that came with the route - DTG were the ones who borked the sounds up with their haphazzard "we fixed it" style of game updates and then it was DTG who were saying the sounds would be released alongside all these paid DLC.

 

I don’t know about that, I think they lack the creative thinking to bring us bigger and bolder routes to the game. Smaller routes and more expensive is their approach.
The only technical leap I foresee is the jump to UE5 one day.

 

I wonder who out of the 3rd party devs are developing for console vs PC, what i mean by this is who is there target audience not what DTG require of them for console compatibility, because i would imagine most of the devs have a vision of what x route should be, i am wondering who out of them are specifically targeting performance on consoles and who are mainly building for the pc market.

 

I can't agree with this statement. There are also issues on PC, so now we can wait for the first person stating, DTG should not sell any product

In my opinion DTG made wrong decisions in the past. The whole layering system is a wreck, we now need to install 6 years old routes only for layers. Take the BR1442 from Rapid Transit for example, we need to install this add-on to get S-bahn trains around Leipzig on the Dresden - Leipzig route. The sounds of this train are terrible and PIS is not working, so the only right solution was including an updated version with the Dresden - Leipzig route with no need for Rapid transit. Less layers/routes means a less bloated game, less chance on mount problems.

You can even ask the question if was smart to port over the old TSW, TSW2020 and TSW2 routes to TSW3 or was it better if they had ended that era after TSW2 with fixing all bugs in the routes and then left it as a good working game? The trains we now have as layers, should then be included with a route and of course updated to today's standards.

Another big issue is testing, a lot of problems like blurry textures, mount issues and performance would not exist when they proper test routes and other DLC before release. If they see issues, they can adjust things before release and decide what has to be reduced or done differently to get the best experience. Now they have to cut back stuff after release, which is not done in my opinion, as people deserve to get and keep what was promised.

As Series S player I can understand that not everything is possible and that there are limits. However I can still enjoy routes like Birmingham Cross City and Glossop line with only the Class 323 and some freight, or Frankfurt S-bahn or Kinzigtalbahn with a reduced timetable (last one is only reduced on Series S).

Last but not least, DTG really need to make work of optimization, look at what the guys of Firefly achieved with their route, they proved what can be done, beautiful route and running well. So DTG, get your act together, optimize the game and routes, invest in proper testing and only release games and DLC when you're really sure it's ready for release.

 

What issues are on PC? I've not had any on my previous nor current gaming rig, with my current one running everything on ultra settings.

You are correct though about the need to install all the routes to get the layers, surely there should be an option to install the locos/units only so they can be layered in without the need to install the routes, especially if they are older and very outdated.

 

The difference is, DTG is both the developer and publisher of TSW and has been since day one of CSX Heavy Haul. Cities Skyline was developed by Colossal Order, who had a publishing agreement with Paradox Interactive. Apparently, the agreement left CS2 with Paradox when Colossal Order ended their association. Nobody is going to take TSW away from DTG, and I can't imagine why DTG would consider selling the IP, since it's currently their cash cow.

Plus, who else could do right by TSW? It wasn't the first train sim, but what other one before or after, with the possible exception of DTG's own TSC, has had TSW's success and longevity? For all the complaints, every train sim has its pluses and minuses and trade-offs between what it does and what it doesn't do. Nobody else has figured out DTG's winning formula. The question could also be put out as to just how big the potential customer base for train sims is and what the ceiling is for these games as far as size and complexity.

 

Indeed, the DTG with TSW formula is a winning one.
It's just time to freshen things up a bit.

 

I don't think the solution is for DTG to stop making TSW for consoles. I have a PS5 Pro and it works fine with TSW6. Now granted, my PS5 Pro is less than 30 days old and still a newborn with about five big games on it, the largest however being TSW6 with tons of DLC add-ons. I've only had two crashes playing TSW6 on the Pro, the most recent being yesterday driving the Harlem route for the very first time.

Purchased the Birmingham to Crewe route yesterday and played it today for the very first time driving the Class 390 all the way through and not a single crash. I guess everyone's experience is different playing TSW. But not so dire to kill it entirely for console users.

 

This is the problem, across the spectrum of console users some are having few to no problems while others are having problems out the wazoo, considering that aside from their individual model PS5/XBS/XBO they should be the same spec so why do some PS5 users have no issues and others do when the hardware is the same? It makes it harder for DTG and the 3rd party devs to find and solve the problems.

Of course just sacking off consoles would solve the problem but that isn't the solution as has been explained countless times before

 

The last few console generations launched with hardware comparable to mid-range PCs. During a console's lifespan, PC hardware undergoes two to three generational changes.Not to mention that games run at lower real resolutions on consoles.

After crafting literally a hundred rocks to load into a dump truck, my processor hit its power consumption limits. Just like in Cinebench and other benchmarks.

 

A stable 120 FPS, or even 80 would be enough on ultra settings in 4K . No stuttering.

 

Why would they stop selling a game they specifically designed as a console version of TSC?

Both a bizarre, and illinformed take.

 

Because quite often it doesn't work properly and I don't think it's fair on console users to be sold faulty products. If I see something on the Xbox store, I should expect it to work properly.

Bizarre and ill-informed comment considering I explained my stance if you bothered to read

 

@BBIAJ

What you're saying there is completely wrong.
Because TSW was originally developed only for the PC, and the console versions weren't released until a few years later.
That’s clearly stated on Google.

“ The first installment in the Train Sim World series, titled Train Sim World: CSX Heavy Haul, was released on March 16, 2017, exclusively for PC via Steam. It wasn't until later titles and sequels in the series (such as Train Sim World 2020) that the game was expanded to consoles like the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. ”

 

It may look like an easy solution, but it absolutely isn’t. You’ll only be able to fix this problem with a real, long‑term solution. Besides the financial consequences of dropping the console, you’ll eventually run into the same issue on PC, because those systems also have limits. If you want to keep the game future‑proof, you need to take action now, not later, sooner or later you’ll face the same problem again.

 

Reply to the OP.

55% of the total sales of TSW go to consoles.

There's no way DTG are going to go down the PC only route.

Until they find themselves in a legal challenge for selling unfit software they will continue as they are.

 

Well maybe stopping selling it temporarily will give them the kick up the backside to fix some of the big issues

 

in which case they’ll need all the money they can get, which consoles would presumably contribute towards

 

They can't fix the issues, Matt promised in 2021 that "fixes for blurry textures were coming very soon" (proof TSW Livestreams readily available on YouTube) and here we are 5 years later. Matt has said they have been using external third parties to help them but yet no change. I'm lucky owning a mid level PC but it still suffers with vegetation popping in, shadows drawing 100metres in-front of the train and stutters that appear throughout routes, some definitely tied to certain trains loading in, that have never been fixed and others tied to how much DTG have butchered UE4.26 and their use of simugraph. It's clear that DTG are in over their heads, but the best way to get out of it is to pump out as much DLC as possible..... surely ?

 

So they can't fix issues... yet you want them to keep pumping out as much dlc as possible...?

 

@ToffeeKat

Yeah, that might have been the case with earlier versions of TSW, when 8th-gen consoles still got all the tracks and other DLCs.
But these days, 8th-gen consoles don’t even get all the DLCs anymore, and many console users have switched to PC.

But I don’t think that’s still the case today.
Or do you have any public documents that people can look at?

 

I only have UK DLCs installed. Even though I own a load of German and US content.

It would be nice if I could have them all installed but whether it's down to DTG or Sony, or both that won't happen, so if I want to play on content I've payed for, I'll often have to spend hours downloading other countries and the DLCs for it. It's annoying to put it mildly.

I can't afford a Gaming PC, So Console is my only choice.

I'm on PS5

 

why can't you have them installed.

 

the last line but the best way to get out of it is to pump out as much DLC as possible..... surely ? was my attempt at sarcasm

 

Because it either uses up all my available space or it crashes the game.

 

Oh, my apologies

 

Those games have the largest software companies (and budgets) in the industry behind them. They also both have custom game engines.

 

that’s irrelevant. as the game has grown it’s decreased in quality. that shouldn’t happen at any level in the industry

 

I don't have much idea of the internals of the game. It's possible a separate console version is appropriate here, like Wargaming did with its games. I would think just cutting down on graphic fidelity and tessellating the models could address it but I assume DTG are doing the best they can.

I'm not sure it's not analogous to what GTA V does as someone else made the comparison. I think it's possible with a custom game engine and hundreds of millions of dollars in development to get something like TSW to be as smooth as GTA V. DTG doesn't have those resources.

When 9th gen consoles came out they were barely on par with PCs in theoretical performance. So if you get a console with the performance of a mid-high end PC today, it won't be enough in a few years all over again.

Also given the probable cost of a DDR5 console right now I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen. Might be DDR6 before there are new consoles. I'm not familiar with the rumors around that. I'd imagine we may be looking at smart TVs with AI content generated remotely on servers by that time. At any rate, I'd think Microsoft and Sony would want to get a sense of where things are going and what kind of processor will be needed in a console.

The Series S was a mistake to release at all imo, at least to require that XBox games work on it which is my understanding. The Series X should've set the base spec for the generation.

Given that there is stuttering even on decent spec PCs I would love to see that addressed. But DTG is going to have a map of what they want to do and it may be that spending the time on optimizing UE4 now would be a waste for example if they are planning on switching to UE5 at some point.

 

If you don't like it don't buy it. Don't try and drag the rest of us down with the ship.

 

Not sure I'm dragging anyone down with a ship but ok

 

The Real Casey Jones
II personally don’t see PC hardware advance to unimaginable levels within the next few years, not saying it won’t improve, but AI will play a huge part in the upscaling of modern gaming.

 

Heh. Ok. Sorry, you are wrong, it is completely relevant. Just because some games offer a degree of subjective performance such as GTA V doesn't mean another develop can replicate that. That game took hundreds of millions of dollars to develop. There are at least a thousand people it its credits if you watch. That's not a realistic expectation for the performance of any other game.

I don't think you understand that unlike GTA V, this game engine wasn't designed to do what it is doing. I'm not sure it would be constructive to even try to explain the reasons that is the case.

 

Plus gta v was a ps3/360 game

 

Not sure what you're responding to. I assume PC hardware will keep advancing at the rate it has. Which means that any console that is roughly on par with a good PC today will be far behind a good PC in a few years.

Like I said, the form of the content is probably going to change. It's hard to say what mount of rendering will be done locally vs. on servers. Why would Microsoft or Sony make a 10th gen console when we don't even know if there needs to be such a thing at all? It's a separate question than PCs. PCs don't only serve the purpose of delivering entertainment.

 

Advocating that the game be discontinued because it is flawed, and thus advocating that everyone - even those who enjoy it - is exactly that.

 

Didn't say you couldn't enjoy it or no longer to play it

 

TBH when did any one us ever witness a game launch in the past couple of yrs that wasn't a bug ridden mess, regardless of developer or publisher, i would say the largest culprit is the industries attitude and the consumers buying unfinished slop because nobody has much in the way of patience anymore.

 

It runs fine on my series S, although I don't have all the routes, and only really drive the UK ones so could probably uninstall the other European and American stuff, or at the very least at some point pick up an external Hard drive and swap them about as and when I feel like doing an S-Bahn run etc. It's a far cry from the dark days of TSW2 on my original XBox One where I'd have to boot the game up three times before it even started, and would maybe get to do a single run on Cathcart Circle before it crashed back to the Xbox dashboard.

 

The difference in my experience is that other developers issues patches to fix the bugs, and usually quite quickly to ensure sales are maintained. As mentioned further up, Matt is on the record telling us the blurry textures issue was going to be resolved "very soon". He told us this five years ago.