West Coast Main Line: Trent Valley From All Aboard Studios

No remaster so far has changed the era of a route so won’t happen as a remaster

 

Sherman hill lol that got remaster and was free

 

Partly sarcasm, part not lol.

It was a dig at PC players who think it's ok for console players to pay the same for less content, like Frankfurt S-Bahn for example

 

Quote from the QA thread:
"Why decide to make a 100+ mile route keeping in mind the current state of the game right now? I worry it may be too ambitious given how blurry textures are still common."

This claim is being made in the QA thread, and it shows that many people don’t really understand what the game is actually suffering from which makes the entire QA thread basically pointless. And then there’s always the same question: “how quickly do we get blurry textures…”
A completely understandable question, but you can keep asking it endlessly until DTG eventually comes up with a real solution years from now.

To address the question about route length… It has no impact on blurry textures, because a 70‑mile route doesn’t use more memory than a 100‑mile route. It’s purely about AI trains that need to be loaded, not the length of the route. KWG also runs fine and is very long.

 

I wasn't referring to PC players paying more than what it costs now, just that console players should pay less if the content (not graphics) is less.

But with a competent team, issues like this shouldn't be occurring. PS5 and Series X are capable enough, and both run complex games really well, at better Fidelity and performance.

 

Wording be firing shots.

 

Can you quote the message where someone said that? All I've seen is PC players, including myself, saying that we shouldn't be seeing the PC version of the game and DLCs reduced in features just because consoles don't have the resources to handle them. On the contrary, if DTG did produce lighter versions of the core game and DLC for console, I'd expect them to be cheaper. Not only would they be losing features / quality, but console users already pay higher prices than Steam users on average since on Steam you get a decent sale every few months (don't know about Epic).

JB

 

Do you guys think that the 3rd June stream will get cancelled/postponed? ;P

 

Probably not, as they've now posted the official Q&A thread.

Plus the weather this week is cooler and unsettled here in the UK.

 

Yes I doubt it, they've also officially announced it on Discord and seem to have wisely removed the term "mystery" because I don't think their customers are currently in the mood for marketing games, considering the state of the franchise.

 

If the hardware doesn't allow for all the content to be displayed, then the complaint should be directed to whoever made this minor oversight. I'm standing at a gas station in my Kia. A BMW is filling up at the gas station next door. We pay the same price for fuel, but his car, how unfair, can go 250 km/h, while I'm lucky if I do 200 km/h! And if I pour this into the gasoline in the generator, then I won’t go anywhere at all, I’ll only hear the noise of the engine, although I can heat up the kettle... What an unfair world...

 

With regards preview with fog. I bet they do, it will help cover up any missing bits of the route.

With regards length = blur. The longer the route the more AI traffic there is likely to be and the more AI the more blur. So here is a tangental association there.

 

Surely it's only fair to watch the preview and seeing things in the flesh before making any judgements or adding speculations that are unfounded?

Sure, all routes have their faults and DTG have had a bad habit of putting out the wrong builds over the last year. But I think people should give AABS the benefit of the doubt until they see the preview in the flesh, and to give them credit, Birmingham to Crewe was decent, (yes it did suffer with blurring on Gen9 but I'm willing to overlook this given the quality and work that went into making it visually stunning, accurate and with authentic 1:1 timetable), and given that so much has been learnt in optimisation improvements (directly from the MVL & SEHS testbeds), give them a bloody chance. I'm rooting for AABS myself and really interested to see how far they come since B2C.

 

I don't think the speculation can be qualified as "unfounded", considering past experience.

 

If we were talking about Rivets previous content, then fair enough (but even they seem to have got their act together), but AAS have only released one previous route, you hardly have a back catalogue of stuff outside of that to judge them on.

This will be 108 miles long, we've seen nothing on this scale UK wise before. That's pretty immense and something to be excited for.

I'll grant the blurry textures as previously mentioned were a pain, but optimisation from MVL and SEHS as the testbeds, seems reasonably successful at the moment. AAS are also an incredibly talented bunch of lads, and if B2C was their first venture (which is incredibly good, let alone for first time Devs!), than I have faith this will be very decent too.

All the negativity does seem to be quite unnecessary at this moment in time. This is not a Rivet scenario where the back catalogue was fairly horrendous (again, historically, not currently as Riveria seems to have shown they have redeemed themselves), so to treat AAS as if they are bad content creators without even seeing their new product in the flesh is quite extreme, and unfounded.

Give the lads a chance. Watch the preview and then draw judgements from that. But I'm fairly certain with the quality from B2C and all the lessons learnt across the board since that hopefully this will be really good.

I have my fingers crossed. We should be encouraging such talent, and any criticism should be feedback based, not speculation, as it doesn't help anyone.

 

Birmingham Crewe on release kept crashing around Crewe. Missing AWS magnets. Blurring. Lack of AI.

No, I’m not giving AABS the benefit of the doubt. I gave them my money, and I fell for the promises of ‘an update is coming soon’ and it wasn’t.

 

That is completely your right, and your choice. You're completely within your rights to hold such an opinion and I'm respectful of that even if I disagree...

But if you're not going to buy this particular product, then why are you getting worked up about it if isn't even going to affect you and you're not parting any money? Let alone creating speculations. That just doesn't make any sense and is a bit bizarre to me.

 

For clarity, I wasn't referring to the content of any particular developer but rather to our experience of DTG's "let's hope they don't notice" live streams and their (lack of) Quality Assurance, which systematically allows broken and / or unfinished content ot of the door in their name. I suspect the vast majority of customers, particularly those who aren't very active on the forums or social media, have absolutely no idea which developer produced which DLC and just see DTG releasing and charging top-dollar for a succession of faulty DLC products.

 

I'm sure one thing we can agree on is DTG absolutely messing up the builds being put out... They may show the right build in the preview, but what they actually put out on sale day is another story! I have absolutely no idea how they've managed to do this time and time again over the last year.

But I know that isn't AAS, or any other developer for that matters fault and I do sympathise with them.

That is something I'm sure we can all agree on collectively as a community.

 

I would imagine performance might be better than Birmingham - Crewe. A lot of the route will be terrain as opposed to heavily built up areas with buildings etc. We shall wait and see.

 

Don't forget that the WCML is very busy with a wide range of traffic and thats also performance heavy

 

Ah so just like the Intercity network of the BR days, it works better if you avoid Birmingham

 

This isn't how the forum works. Speculate, and when you are wrong say nothing and then continue onto the next conspiracy.

Birmingham to Crewe is an excellent route as far as I am concerned and if the Trent Valley route is as good, then I will be very happy. I am sure there have been at least two updates to the Birmingham to Crewe route, if not three.

These forums are getting more and more one sided.

 

theorganist 100% - Everything you said.

 

That won't make a blind bit of difference I'm afraid, the performance issues aren't related to scenery. If you've been following the past few days DTG are improving performance by removing services.

 

It’s a shame some of the reason why AABS is getting so much backlash is because of poor DTG optimisation but I do hope Trent valley goes well

 

Agreed, but then it's their choice to develop DLC for a game that's been in this state for years with no sign of any effort or expenditure being spent on fixing it. I do wonder if DTG might get their act together if third parties start refusing to contribute.

 

Err, I can imagine the outcry from console players complaining that they don't have the same experience even if they paid less. DTG are damned if they do or don’t….who would be a developer?!

 

My point is that the content should be the same. If they absolutely cannot provide the same amount for console, then console players shouldn't be paying the same for less. I said around the Frankfurt S-Bahn release that I'd be fine with getting less content if I didn't have to pay the same. PS5 and Xbox should have been 30% cheaper as they are missing ~40% of the services

If a car dealership had 2 2023 Ford Focus for sale. Same exact models, but 1 has a Bluetooth stereo, the other doesn't. Would it be fair for the dealership to charge the same amount for both?

(I do love how PC players would 100% complain in somehow console got 1 extra service in a route, but tell us console players to 'put up with it').

 

See the thread above about TSW on consoles. I don't think it'll be an issue for much longer. Several developers want to stop making "consoles" as separate things and simply make essentially "cheap PCs" with slim cases and controllers with fewer "traditional" items like full windows and keyboards. That's what will replace consoles. Then there will be no "console vs PC" different.
The "consoles" will just be cheap gaming PCs.
Then you'll see that it's not about "consoles" as a thing... it's really about people who buy a "cheap alternative" to a PC and then don't want to upgrade their consoles 10 years later like other PC users do.
Once they can't blame the "different systems" as they will operate the same PC program, that it'll be not "bugs" but simply a "slowing down" of newer programs as their older PCs just fail to keep up.

 

Consoles have worse hardware, so they'd never get more. More services is what MAKES them run worse. The console versions could release for less cost however, and that would [EDIT - Language] off PC players.
Although that too doesn't make sense for the company because it costs them MORE to develop console versions after they are done with the PC ones which are created first.

 

You're speaking like everyone got the same experience with Bham - Crewe. PC players got the route as intended. Console players got an unplayable mess that crashed and still has texture issues. You can forgive most players for being apprehensive going into Trent Valley.

I will be watching the preview as I always do, but holding the hype until the route releases. I fear another route with bad optimisation. (I don't blame AABS completely, DTG handle the ports to console)

 

So the PC players would be [EDIT - Language] if they were asked to pay full price for the full content? And yet, people on here say console players are the entitled ones.

If I was DTG, I'd make what the consoles can do and make that standard. PC users have access to mods that will expand the timetables. A fair compromise to those not elitist..

 

DOES DTG handle programming on third parties?
They handle last minute testing and marketing.... but I don't think they actually program the console versions at all.
I could be wrong, but could you show me where you see they do that now?

 

a) if the console people paid less...yes, they'd be as upset as the console players are for the same reason. I think it you call one "entitled" then the other should be called the same thing.

b) I agree that's the best "compromise"... but again BOTH are going to say they "deserve everything possible on PC" even if the consoles can't support it. So while the "minimum level of content that both can use" is in fact the best LOGICAL compromise, people aren't often logical. They don't always want what is rational or "fair." They want what they want.
The PC crowd wants the full that the PC is "capable of" regardless of what console users get (selfish) and the console crowd wants more than their consoles can handle (selfish and unrealistic)

On the other hand, pissing them both off would be the definition of "fair." =-)

 

I'm not google, but I'm pretty sure I've heard other third parties say they don't have PS5 and Xbox dev kits.

If anyone can prove otherwise, I'll be happy to admit I was mistaken.

 

Here's a quote from Matt stating DTG programs the console versions for third parties. Hope this helps.

 

I think youre missing the point…Its not down to the modders to expand the timetables - thats down to DTG or other devs.
Also, how is owning a PC “elitist”?

 

I'm giving some balance as if you read these forums the route is a disaster. You could easily say some of those with a negative view are speaking as though everyone has the same experience.

I can only speak from my experience as does someone on console who experiences blurry textures.

There is still room for more than one view on the forums.

It isn't even all consoles, some on PS5 are enjoying the route. I'm not sure that "most" people are having problems. Understandably those with issues are shouting the loudest.

 

I'm pretty happy with TSW6, sure it's got some issues but it was playable on day one. Something that's becoming increasingly unusual in the world of simulation games.

Yes, I'm a PC player and will always be a PC player because Consoles are less immune from the ensh*tification process that's strangling gaming and the general online experience. Though buying PCs will become harder and harder if NVIDIA's cult-like embrace of AI continues.

 

9th of June people!

Article
Video showcase

 

#winning

 

OK Preston Crewe Next

 

Is the class 805 not included in the AI layer portion or do i missed something?

 

Thanks! I have missed that very clear

 

Kind of. The longer routes do have a small impact on memory usage. However, you're right it's much less than the impact that is the number of services running. When you combine the two things, you get the worst hit on performance since the longer a route is, the more trains you'll often have moving along that route at any one time.

The compounding "third" issue is a bit less quantifiable, in that ended services don't always "end" and seem to continue to use memory. Over time they "pile up" off screen and hog system resources. DTG members have hinted at that being worked on (I think they called it "memory leakage" or something in another thread) but with no timeframe to fixing it.

To be fair to the route creators, I'm not sure they can do much about any of those issues. They need to go from a key station to a key station. They "need" to make the timetables reflect real life (which in this case is busy) and they can't work on the Core programming.

If they limit length or traffic, the customer base will complain it's "unrealistic."

Also, this isn't a unique thing to TSW or DTG. Quite a few games that track a lot of pieces are running into this issue of memory dumping those completed services and freeing up memory. I'm not a dev so I don't know how much effort it takes to manage that and decide what things get "dropped" and when to free up that memory, but apparently it's quite a major project since it's been noted for years now and it's still a big issue.

Many especially online games tend to "deteriorate" over time as these "services/processes" pile up and lag the games until they crash, or the servers are regularly reset to free up memory and eliminate the backlog.

 

Give it a rest

 

16/6 or 23/6?

 

Give what a rest?