Lemme warm up your baby bottle. This is exactly the kind of tone I was talking about in my post. Good Lord. Are you 12? It's about the way you're saying it, not what you're saying.
I will push back on the "UE5 eliminates stutter" claims, as someone with 15 UE5 games currently installed, on both Console and PC, that I have played mostly to completion. The first three years of UE5 are full to the brim with games highly criticised, and rightly so, for their stuttering issues. The first year alone, Epic had to be constantly working on a bunch of tweaks to the engine to try to prioritise the matter. They'd made a bunch of significant alterations to the engine which reduced it, but didn't wholly eliminate it. On the matter of tree rendering, that's still a sticky point in UE5, and we didn't see much improvement in making it more efficient without using nanite to obfuscate the billboarding, until CDPR switched from their proprietary engine to UE5 and realised they needed to craft a new foliage rendering system for The Witcher 4 if they were going to use UE5 for it.
You do get support from me and others here. We're just not as loud and pervasive as those who need to shout down or belittle your reality checks to save face. By all means take a break when it becomes frustrating, but when the reality checks stop coming entirely, the only winners are the ones who fought them.
Bluntly, I think DTG are obfuscating. A lot of the graphical differences between TSW and Running Train are not technical in nature.
I hope not Maik, as I for one value your input here. I do hope you’ll be back when it’s time for a deep dive into the forthcoming TSG steam route. Which is undoubtedly on many players’ Day One shopping list.
I’ve not bought any “Early Access” games before. I know there are updates coming but if I want the full game when it eventually comes out, will I need to buy it again or will this come as an automatic update? Is buying early access like a kickstarter?
Once you purchase the Early Access version, you won't have to shell out for the final version. You just have to wait for updates. However, it's best to read what Steam says about Early Access versions. It's clearly explained.
Update. Consider it like you buying a house that has not yet been finished. The problem is, games can be cancelled for various reasons, which doesn't happen often, but it does happen. You will only have to pay separately for DLC, if there are any.
Early access is a gamble. I bought Train Crew and Hakodate Tram, both also early access Japanese titles. Train Crew has had some work done on it, but the tram game seems largely abandoned and wasn't very good. If you have the hardware then Running Train definitely worth a punt I would say.
Thanks everybody. I hadn’t seen the Steam Early access page. I read the notes on the game page and it wasn’t clear from that. I think I might give it a chance at the price and hope it gets improvements over time.
Things can change, but the update schedule so far has been very good so I have hope that RT will get to a full release state.
I also stick to only buying finished games. If it's worth playing, it's worth playing the finished product. And if there's a cheaper early access price, I'd rather, if the game ends up being worth it, pay them the full price.
You don't need to "have the hardware". If you can run TSW, you can run Running Train as well. As it is now, it runs even better than TSW does. Regarding the stuttering topic a few messages back. It's true that currently the small route size allows for no asset streaming, therefore no stutters caused by it. Even the developer himself have admitted that it will probably be a challenge once the route length grows. I believe one of the plans he had in mind was having it load while waiting at the station, even if it would mean a small loading screen. We'll see what the end result will be. As for the rest of the "counterarguments", like having few unique assets or distant trees being low quality... I mean, yeah? That's just good design and optimization if you can achieve good looks with minimal performance requirements. Running Train may have few custom assets, but they are well used to generate a realistic city scape. Regarding distant trees, I know which one I'd rather pick. The critique about the flat warning stripes on the platforms are valid. I've also noticed that and I do hope they get a proper bumpmap or 3D model. But, to be frank, some TSW routes will also have the same flat warning stripes (like the NJ Transit routes I believe). Either way, the argument that Running Train is just a collection of nice tricks is valid. But that's kind of what computer graphics is about. Make the best results with the least required performance cost. Running Train is built like how a videogame software should be built, while most other train simulators try to brute force it raw (best example is the distant trees being the same assets as the close-up ones), resulting in bad performance cost.
Problem with TSW distant trees(if we forget about aggressive pop-ups for a second): 1. While DTG still remember to use young trees and bushes near the tracks, you won't see them in the distance. Optimization, yes. But isn't it really possible to use sprite bushes and trees for far distant objects? I think the furthest LODs are so bad that sprite versions wouldn't look much worse, and they could be placed in greater amount. 2. All of them have one color in distance. In real nature tree leaves have a huge variety of shades. If DTG can randomize the color of the foliage, and even so that it applies to all LOD levels, it will be a great step towards realism. 3. Shading. Obviously, no one would use shadows at such a distance. So why not create fake shadows under the distant trees? Use a translucent dark brush to paint underneath them? Simply placing a dark circle under the tree sounds like something stupid and not entirely realistic, but it may add volume to distant landscapes.
Obviously don't try it with ray tracing on if you don't have a good RTX card. But these are all shot on my 1660Ti, with medium/high graphics. Nice looks, stable frame rate, no stuttering, no objects pop-in.
I put this in another thread but just to add, I'm able to run the game basically maxed out at 1080p on my 2019 build. If I remember correctly (I haven't played in a few days) the only thing I don't have maxed is the lighting setting which is one notch below the top, and everything else auto-detected to the top settings. I am utilizing DLSS (quality, not performance). Frame rate hovers between 45-60, but it's butter smooth nonetheless. No game crashes or any weirdness. I benchmarked and stress tested the hell out of this build when I put it together (as one should do with any gaming computer IMO) and it hasn't given me much trouble in all the years I've battered it with demanding games. Ryzen 9 3900X 32GB DDR4 RAM @ 3200 Mhz 2070 Super 850W PSU I have the game installed on an NVME drive. I think if RT is giving trouble it would point to other issues aside from the game itself because I don't think it's too demanding (especially compared to TSW which runs like dog water on my rig, so I use Lossless Scaling there). I would use Event Viewer to find the root of any issues for anyone having serious problems. I recently had a full shut down of my rig while playing a very demanding game in heavy development (first time something like that has ever happened to me with any game). I used Event Viewer to find the log for it, and it pointed me toward a CPU issue (not overheating, rather a hardware error). Long story short, after some googling and going down the rabbit hole a bit, I updated my chipset drivers for the first time since I built the thing and haven't had an issue since. Something similar could be happening with RT for the fellow who had a system restart from playing.
I found a YouTube channel by a former Japanese train driver. He has a ZUIKI controller and also simulates the voices from the cockpit. I thought it was really cool. For anyone who has the patience to watch, here's the link and his video.
there are no distant trees in RUNNING TRAIN; the mid-ground just simulates a dense forest. here are the distant trees in TSW
for me it looks better in TSW, even in TS there are maps where distant views look better, but in RT it looks more like plasticine
When I was working as a route builder for ATS, we were told that DTG didn't want us to use the old 2D tree assets, and to use 3D trees instead. Assuming this is still DTG's policy, they're probably banking on the LOD models running and looking as good (for distant scenery) as the 2D trees.
You know, I've just read thru this entire thread and I can't believe the amount of animosity and nit-picking some folk are dishing out towards this game. Contrary to certain beliefs, Running Train isn't a direct rival to TSW (and was probably never intended to be), it's something that a single developer has put together for people who enjoy driving trains and maybe want to experience a little Japanese culture at the same time....and nothing else. Not only that but he's asking a pittance for a route that already has solid foundations but nonetheless will still improve and expand over time to something more in line with what you'd expect from a single TSW addon, so what more could you possibly ask for? And there's me thinking you people actually liked and appreciated all things trains. It's embarrassing! *I bought the game on the off-chance I can play it at a later date (I only have a Steam Deck but am looking to purchase a Steam Machine when it releases) purely and simply because developers of this calibre don't need their work put under the microscope....they need supporting!
Well those were certainly some interesting posts on page 4/5. Not going to delve into some of those, but I do think it’s…interesting how certain TSW devs are going out of their way to go on the defensive. I do agree overall with sentiment that we really don’t need mid to low effort, somewhat dense scenery 5 miles from the track, especially when it results in the use of the same quality scenery appearing within 1 mile of the track. I find TSW in general puts far too much effort into gimmicky development, making walkable paths around villages/hills whatever & such stuff is meaningless IMO. Never mind the features the game is full of that get implemented in a half baked state & left that way. It’s all stuff that should be focused on after you get a solid foundation. There are several examples you can find on preview streams of the team showing off some unrelated adventure & gloating about the detail of it, whilst basic mistakes & lack of detail exists on the rolling stock & route assets. Contrary to that you have Firefly who have shown how that balance should be struck, they’ve created an ultra detailed landscape along with probably one of the better detailed routes in the game. I think overall TSW has a handful of routes that can go toe to toe with what running train has, but by and large there are very noticeable lapses in quality & that’s before you get to the technical issues. It’s definitely not in an overall state where DTG devs have any room to be posting comparisons to their own game & implying RT is somehow worse. Regarding the point DTG Chris made on scalability, is from a technical standpoint I don’t see any reason RT couldn’t have another map made the same way & it exists separately from the map already there, it’s not like TSW routes have scalability, in fact often we’re saddled with multiple versions of the same thing because DTG can’t reuse the original. It would seem misguided to me, if there is a belief in DTG that creating 5 iterations of the same train/system/feature etc is scaling TSW, because the reality is that it’s just bloating it.
