General Discussion Is Gone

So you get to decide what questions can be asked in the first place?

I'd be careful because this could bite you in the rear end. Here there's at least some control since it's still your forum. If the community leaves en masse and opens a new public forum, you'll have even more criticism in a forum that you have no control at all over. There will be no ability to conduct damage control.

Meanwhile, your ability to meaningfully interact with customers will be seriously degraged.

That's not to mention the nasty smell of the thing, no matter what you think the intent was. If players "smell a rat" they may stop buying content in protest too.

Was this really thought through completely with all the consequences?

The arguments thus far don't add up. If you need more moderation... plenty of community members would moderate for free.
If you think it's "unorganized"... that's a moderation issue, and Discord is even WORSE for that.

I'm not directing this personally at you, Alex. I know you're just the representative. However, as such you can take feedback up the chain and "suggest" that it's not the banger of an idea they thought. I frankly don't see a substantive positive to this action and many, many negatives.

The rail sim community is NOT that big and it's VERY interconnected. You can use that to your advantage as this community discussions forum has done for years now.... or you can go the opposite way and anger or drive away that small niche community with deep pockets.

If your goal is not community or returning customers, but instead a quick buck the way to go is not TSW... it's mobile games for cell phones. Those make a ton of money, have little to no community interaction, and you hardly ever talk to customers. Just post it, rack up sales, and then post another one.

Not saying it's "good" or "bad" but that's an entirely different business model. You are moving from one to the other (albeit slowly) and people noticed. Again, I'm not saying this to YOU as an individual. I'm saying the company leadership needs to think long and hard about the direction they want to go and why.

As I said, I don't think they've really thought through this decision fully. There's still time to take another look and not make a huge mistake.

 

I already intend to - Class 70, forget it.
TSG steam route - I can live without it.
£50 for TSW7 Deluxe pack, I think not.

This decision will not only hurt DTG but the 3Ps too. Funny how they held back until after Trent Valley and the JT route, dropped before making the announcement.

I would rather start spending my money on stuff for Run 8, SimRail or the bus/truck games. And to think I was concerned about Steam Gift cards vanishing. Looks like DTG have solved that one. I’m already thinking about how many games I can fit in the bloated 500 Gb currently occupied by TSW.

 

Despite what I’ve said about DTG, there is still time to scrap the general discussion removal.


If DTG want a better relationship with the community, then revert this ludicrous idea.

 

I'm only going to buy the GP60M and the Tadami Line because I really want them and have waited a long time for them (I'm still waiting for the Tadami Line), but then I'm done...
maybe (and only maybe) if DTG rethinks this pathetic decision, I might consider buying the TSW7 deluxe pack

 

I have about £900 invested in this game, it's my second most invested game, the top being DCS with over £1500 and about £500 in MSFS, so if it's not reason that will sway the idiots that made this decision, if its money, work out how much you're going to lose from just this one customer, then sit down and have a think, because i don't think I'm alone in coming to the conclusion that for now I'm no longer a customer of yourselves.

 

Without the general discussion I will have no real purpose to come to the forum. Other than the social media marketing TSW do I will not be so aware and engaged with upcoming DLCs. I am sure others are in the same boat. Could be a costly mistake in the long run for future DLC sales.

 

Probably another nail in the coffin for DTG. Especially for older users who are more used to the forums, than Discord. And cant use it for 1 reason or another.

Really really dumb idea....

 

These aren’t minor adjustments, and they’re not intended to result in everything being moved to the bug reports or feedback threads.

What about general discussions that are related to TSW but aren’t feedback or support requests?

And we, as TSW customers, don’t just want to post error reports or write feedback comments.
We also want to be able to have a chat with other users in the general forum about things that have nothing to do with feedback or bugs.

But DTG would rather shut TSW customers up and silence them, simply because they can’t handle criticism.

A general forum section can contain so much that simply doesn’t fit anywhere else. And the general discussions will then be hidden away, putting users off. Because up until now, most users knew to have a look in the general section, as there might be a topic there that could interest them.
Does DTG really believe that this move will actually improve anything?

I really hope that, following this move, many TSW users will treat TSW the way DTG treats its users. Stop buying anything from DTG.
And ideally, the community should set up its own forum somewhere where DTG can no longer take action against criticism.

And I’m seriously considering whether to get web hosting again and set up a forum on it – it wouldn’t be my first forum.

 

I suspect it's a running down of TSW for its shiny new UE5 replacement sometime in the future.

 

We have seen what 10yrs experience has gained them in UE4, i almost pre-embarrassed for the UE5 version if it ever happens.

 

Perhaps it's time for a thread on this "new forum" topic? It wouldn't be a bad idea to start another forum in any case as a backup.

 

As toxic as GD has gotten lately (albeit it has calmed down somewhat over the last week or two), I think what can’t be understated is how much of an effective marketing tool these boards actually are.

I was hyped for new routes and DLCs not so much from the actual marketing materials but from the good folk on here discussing them.

Feels like the whole thing is being wound down to be honest - it’s clear DTG are no longer really involved in any content creation (other than the cursed GBR 802, have any of the TSW6 DLCs actually been first party?) and honestly wouldn’t be surprised if TSW7 doesn’t exist.

 

You are so offended like this is the only place you could talk online. The best forums I have been a member on were never the official developer communities of a game, or of a company. That is not where the real community is, there will always be rules that are more strict to protect ones "image", even though this move is really weird since DTGs TSW forums were pretty open, well until now. Looking at TS Classic to me it feels like the conversation never really happened on this forum, every 3rd party had its own website, not even speaking of the other game subsections, for which the games didnt even survive for long enough to generate any traction.

I suspect TrainSimCommunity will setup a forum that will entirely overshadow the official one, they already surpassed anything creators club or DTG could achieve in the modding scene for PC players. Or hey, even TrainSimSociety could open a forum if we really want one that openly criticises the developer and has no reputation with DTG to lose.

I think the most important is, to keep everything civil, whether you want to leave the forums, boycott products or you simply don't like this decision. Wherever the community will go, if it becomes a PR issue for DTG, they will still have leverage to request the takedown of websites on legal grounds such as copyrighted material. And hey, I don't really want to lose the entire TrainSimCommunity website for some fella that cant control themselves.

I joined the forum because I had an issue with the game, that I wanted to find out how to solve, and my instinct was not to go open a ticket and wait for an answer or solution that never comes, but find out how others managed to work around it. And it was at a point where the reputation of DTG wasnt as terrible regarding the quality of their products as it is today. That is the single most important part of this community, people that help eachother out, rather than a PR response from the company themselves, for which noone needs a forum.

The offtopic and suggestion sections can really go away, noone will seriously miss their demise. I don't see the point of the Announcements/Article discussion being separated, just restrict comments and pin the most important ones. Hell even the weekly schedule doesnt need a new thread every week.

Enforce strict moderation, I am all for it, enlist people from the community to manage the "General" forum, and force approval for new threads in that section, so the duplicates and slop threads can be stopped at the source. And really, be strict on rules regarding language, cause it really feels like being in the stone age around here sometimes.

 

Speaking of "running down"... is the TSC forum "General Discussion" also affected? Or just TSW? That's a legacy game that gets quite a bit of discussion over there still and is still selling new content.

 

I'm not sure if the Suggestion and Off-Topic Threads should go either. You see, nearly every "Topic" is a vent for something. Closing down a topic the content of this topic will find its way into another, one way or the other. That why closing the General Topic is such a mistake. It will get messier, it will get more work for the admins, it will get less fun. I promise!

 

Surel

Surely Alex there is a halfway house here. Threads giving feedback on specific add-ons can be, if deemed necessary, moved to the appropriate forum. I do not believe that the drastic measure of completely removing the General Discussion area is a positive move for the community. Perhaps some stronger forum moderation would do the trick, and less focus on Discord, which is a chat app and does not facilitate healthy discussion of the game. From what I can tell there are a good number of community managers, so why can this not be achieved?

 

DTG are completely out of touch if they don't see people who usually strongly disagree with each, come together and agree with each other collectively what a bad idea this is...

If they do backtrack I do hope we get a better explanation why it was even put forward as an idea in the first place. I don't really buy the justification we have been given yet. It seems another way of saying moderating general discussion is to hard therefore it's easier to abolish it completely. You have to take the good with the bad, and if you want people to enjoy and buy your game, you have to give them breathing space to discuss it openly, not just in restricted areas.

*To edit and extend further*

I have absolutely no objection to the updated rules and I'm sure no one else does and most of us promote respect. We are justified firmly against such restrictive measures that stifle conversation.

I certainly will be taking a very extended break from the game for the foreseeable future if it does go ahead...

 

DTG Harry so you are closing the only part of the forum that is accessible to everybody, and keep the part that is so restricted that it can not even be found, not even on a google search

 

This is stupid. I genuinely don't understand what goes through their heads sometimes.

 

i hope someone at dtg is reading this and taking notes, but i find that unlikely. what’s clear is the absolute consensus that this subforum should remain as it is, there’s no need to change it

 

Corporate words on a screen.

 

I could say it's a logical consequence of some users' abuse, but deleting the general discussion and straying from the topic seems far too extreme to me.

There's a middle ground between doing nothing and deleting entire subforums; stricter moderation is a good idea for example and a good middle ground especially since the off-topic subforum was a good subforum to talk about trains without it necessarily being about TSW
The general subforum is the heart of the forum itself, since it's where the general discussions take place. I can understand that it's tiring to manage overly aggressive posts or find topics that who have no business being on this subforum/duplicate, and even in this case, there aren't many topics. I'm just guessing, but I could be wrong.

I don't know what the outcome will be for this forum, but I, who frequent a French forum (the French people here should know what I'm talking about ) there is far too extreme moderation with bans and deletions of topics/posts with or without reason due to a certain story and ultimately we reach a point where the number of connected users decreases every year (well, the users are also at fault). Of course, the situation isn't the same here but the form is the same : far too extreme decision to manage the two forums

 

well, alex has given this a like so we clearly are being listened to. let’s hope some action is taken

 

I have no problem at all with making feedback and troubleshooting issues easier to find in their own sub-forums, and I'd welcome a desire to keep the forums tidier as I said earlier, but killing General completely is just wrong. You're basically sending the signal that you don't want anything posted that doesn't fit the defined sub-forums, except you will allow general discussion in both the TSC forum and on Discord.

 

I have no idea what is worse, this announcement, or the England vs Ghana match last night that was a snoozefest.

 

So far the only action I've seen is posts being deleted, mine and others.

All hail DTG...

Joking aside, this is really bad, the whole benefit of this forum was that we could at least know that DTG were getting some feedback from us as well as ideas and suggestions (little ones not worthy of their own massive threads), to go elsewhere doesn't have that benefit, but it doesn't have the crazy levels of censorship that is just dare I say it, LOVE.

 

At least the fans had fun outside of the game apparently.
The pubs were packed.

 

You know I would agree that people wishing to see more communication from the Devs could join the Discord, but removing all general discussion is a step way too far and can only be seen as censorship.

If repeat offenders are causing trouble then why aren't they banned? To lock all conversation away because of a few bad eggs is ludicrous and discord is a totally different form of medium to the forums where longer messages aren't drowned out.

Do I even have to mention the amount of compromised accounts on the official DTG server and scams that are present? Discord is rampant with these type of scams and bots. Not everyone (especially the older generation) is familiar with Discord. I even saw that pinging Devs is frowned upon and you can be muted for it, despite the fact discord enables pings by default and I guarantee most people new to discord won't know this.

I strongly protest that you reverse this decision. How ironic that this discussion has united everyone on these forums despite our various opinions on the game.

 

I think this announcement from DTG has been in flames BIG TIME


A bit like the UK weather

BECAUSE IT IS ROASTING

 

What a frankly ridiculous move.
The GD forum is the heart of this forum and without it we may as well just get rid of the whole thing.

Everyone who thought that the Discord would replace the forum has been vindicated, I suppose.

A truly awful decision. Way to destroy a community. Congrats Dovetail.

P.S. - This is the most unified thread this forum has ever seen. That says a lot.

 

I was wondering if there's a banning system here? Because apart from message deletions and thread locks, I've never seen a user get banned.

 

There is, it's rarely used.
You also typically get a few [insert timeframe] suspensions before a permaban, which is why most people seem to come back.

 

The forums have united.


Despite all our differences and opinions on how the game should be handled. Everyone on this topic has the same thoughts…

This is wrong.

 

Discord is a pain to use. It's a chat, things happen way to quickly. It's of no use to have any kind of discussion about a particular subject. It's simply too messy for that. That's why forums are great. They have threads, each having its own topic. Neatly organized.

So, DTG Alex , where would we post general TSW discussion after the changes has been made?

 

Noticed a lack of a poll at the top of this thread, so elected to make one:
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/gen-discussion-deletion-poll.98470/

 

You decided to leave only the feedback section? It's funny, because it's the most useless section on this forum. Why? Because on the first page of every new DLC, you'll see a DTG-in-name leave a message along the lines of, "Are there bugs in our new creation? How is that possible?". And this is where the dialogue with the devs ends. People report bugs. People ask DTG for answers: "Are you aware of this? Will you fix it?" But no one ever answers. Because they don't give a damn about your reports. But as soon as you move away from the topic and discuss something else, a moderator will immediately come, delete your posts and threaten to close the topic.
What the hell do you need feedback for, DTG? You don't collect reports from it, which is easy to verify by your reaction when you're unaware of a bug that's been discussed in the feedback thread for five pages straight. And even if you are aware, you still don’t fix any from these reports.

 

it is a sad day for the community :/

 

I enjoy coming here and visiting the forum everyday. Especially when a Roadmap is very close and we speculate on what’s going to be revealed next… to think that’s all going to go is really sad….

I really hope the Devs are paying attention to all the comments on here. Everyone doesn’t want to see the forum end. This is very strange behaviour. A tiny part of me wonders if TSW is now at its “beginning of the end” phase. I really hope I’m wrong.

 

I've only just seen this, but I hope the decision is reversed. I thought we were assured that Discord would not replace the forums?

 

Not a surprise and frankly means I'll spend a bit less time on the internet.

The forums have become less and less pleasant and I'm surprised that some are shocked at this, whether that is the reason or not or a contributory factor I know not.

There seems to be less people one the forums and certainly less people who are of the "glass half full contingent".

It used to feel like a community.

TSW will survive and this forum is not necessary for its survival.

 

I am sad now.

The discussion forums are now going to be gone. Off Topic is one of my favourite places to be.

Without the general discussion and off-topic forums, we don't have a discussion forum. All we have is a feedback forum.

We already have the support ticket system, so why do we need a second one?

I think my emotions are running too high right now - I'll have a think about it but I am almost certain that the forums will lose the discussions and become much closer to being a support ticket system.

 

Very very very bad move DTG! The most used and most valued part of the forums will be gone soon.
How did you even come up with this terrible idea? The state of the game is already embarrassing and now this....

The last time I saw such a change on a game forum, the forum became dead and I'm afraid this will happen with this forum too. Instead you should be proud on the many people here on the forums, having civil discussions because of playing your game.
Don't slap them in the face, because it will somehow backfire onto you and the game.

I tried discord in the past, it's just terrible to keep track of post and information.

 

What’s the logic behind removing the off-topic subforum? Discussions are usually pretty chill there. Could it be DTG not wanting people to discuss competing games to TSW such as Running Train on their own forums? That’s my only guess.

 

Exactly, I wanna talk about the UK weather there

 

Im sad as well, don’t post much but always come straight to the general discussion and enjoy seeing everyone’s views and useful info, I also frequent the off topic as it is useful to see if someone has spotted a new sim or post info on something I have seen/found.
Well tbh I have not purchased much TSW content lately and might not bother as got lots of other stuff to be playing.
Will be the end of an era.

 

I prefer this over the discord channels as that's a mess. Getting rid of General Discussion is a "closure by stealth", close it down, the number of users drop, they have an excuse to close it down.

It's crappy of them.

 

Haha true that. I got ‘pulled up’ for daring to ping a dev on their Discord.
I left their server and the tripe that was in it - never looked back since!

 

That kind of ran through my mind too. I was also thinking if DTG don’t like the criticism this game gets from people. The endless requests to fix bugs and audio etc. It’s a very good point. Seems a bit over the top and I don’t think the forum would be too happy about it but if they really wanted too they could have just banned the discussion of other Train Sims but I reckon if they did that it would make DTG look a bit insecure lol. However the off topic is pretty much a place to discuss anything you want outside of TSW. Many forums have an off topic section.

 

It will be quite entertaining to watch the blowback on this, no doubt a few youtube channels will be already running with this and videos will be appearing anytime now.

The thing that baffles me the most, this is a generalisation but the point largely stands, is that the older players are more likely to be present here than on discord, where the younger players would be hanging out and yet it is the older player who has money to spend on as many DLC's as they wish rather than kids and teens who rely on pocket money, weekend jobs or birthday presents.

Way to go Supreme Leader, another glorious decision to alienate your playerbase, hail!

 

Knew this would happen once they went onto that mess Discord, can't bloody stand it

This is no doubt the beginning of the end of this forum