Wcml Preston To Crewe Discussion

Dont there tell you on the wagons I cant remember.

 

I suspect the real issue is that we're reaching the limits of what the core is capable of in its current form.

There must be common factors between the blurry routes that can be identified, assuming the will is there to fix them (instead of, say, jumping to UE5 or some other engine and starting all over again). If not, they could still be used as guidelines to scale back on devs ambitions to mitigate this happening in future...

If that's not realistic, how about looking at some of the more problematic recent features that were introduced and backing them out of the core to free up machine resources? I wonder if all AI trains have to simulate the suspension physics, for example - would there be a way of stopping that, if so? Or how about removing the random faults? They don't really bring anything to the game IMHO. If we're already struggling to run the latest routes, what new "features" will TSW7 bring that'll break them even more...?

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the last letter that dictates breaking type, i think its say the wagons designation is HKA and the last letter being a means air-braked.

 

Yup, A = air brakes ... more details here: https://www.ltsv.com/w_ref_codes_tops.php

 

Meant to say in my earlier post that clearing the shader cache really made a difference on my PC - FWIW, it's an i7-10700 with 32Gb and a 6Gb rtx2060 GPU - nothing fancy, but it's good enough to run TSW. I wasn't experiencing any major problems with the new route but thought I'd do a bit of spring cleaning anyhow, and I was surprised by the difference after clearing out the shader cache. PITA to do it, mind, as you have to reboot a couple of times etc, but it was worth the effort. YMMV of course

 

Some interesting thoughts in there, for sure. Ther performance isn't great on this route. In fact, I was somewhat shocked on my first run just how bad the performace is. Felt like SPG on PS4 with its 10-15 FPS all over again.

It needs to be adressed. It's no use having a super impresssive route that runs poorly (or not at all for some). I certainly don't have any easy answers as to how it can be addressed, but this is not a standard for the future. JT have undoubtedly a lot of goodwill given their general quality and choice of vintage traction that DTG almost ignores, but that goodwill can also be lost. It would be a shame if their otherwise high qulaity stuff gets dragged down by performance.

 

I've posted what we're doing in the feedback thread for the route but we've making some headway with things which is great.

 

It's a bit harsh to blame JT for performance issues which arise because of DTG's crappy coding abilities (I'm surprised they aren't a government contractor at this point) and the poor core optimisation allowing bad performance issues to arise on consoles and low spec PCs.

The only performance issues that I experienced was some brief stuttering during my first run through Warrington but it's been fine since and also low resolution textures at distance due to DTG's so called "fix" or "optimisation" though that needs to be reversed as sitting at Crewe and not being able to read the blurry number of a 47 parked three lines over is unacceptable, but again, that's on DTG.

 

FWIW if you’re on PC clearing the shader cache does make a difference. Personally it runs well for me, but it sounds like I’m in the minority sadly.

 

On my PC I don‘t have any problems to run the route. Only little stuttering and no blurry textures. I have a five years old PC. Frankfurt S Bahn route has much more stuttering than this route.

 

In the process of giving that a try. Even if it just squeezes a few more FPS - though of course I guess the downer is that TSW will be rebuilding the shaders on every route the first couple of times you run them.

 

That's the flash mob choir Easter Egg.

 

Runs fine for me as well… doubtful you are in the minority, Just those that are having problems are doing the most comments as they should. The rest, we are enjoying the route

 

Bit the bullet and bought preston to crewe (series s)

Was expecting constant crashing at crewe so i spawned an 87 to see how it was (not sure exactly which service) and it ran smoothly on 4K with only a slightly low FPS. Switched over and am now driving 9K03 part 1 from Crewe and almost perfect frame rates and no blurring through crewe

Granted it definetly seems there is some static stock missing but it's a lot better a result than what i first expected. I'm pleasantly surprised by this as i expected it to run horribly on my series S after what i heard about series X.

 

Also bit the bullet thinking I can give it a couple of runs and refund if it runs badly.

I have an Lenovo Legion Pro 5 with i9 14900HX, 32gb RAM, RTX 4070 8gb laptop card, 1TB SSD. I run TSW at 1440p with 150% screen percentage and everything except the sky on maximum (Sky on very high). I also run Jetwash's tweaks at High. I limit FPS to 30 in game and run Nvidia Smooth Motion.

I did a run from Crewe to Preston and started at Crewe at around 45-50fps so not too bad at all.... After leaving Crewe this rose to 60fps..... All good till I got to Warrington where it dropped down to around 15-20fps so reduced screen percentage back to 100% and rose back up to mid 40s fps so I thought OK again. Had a look around whilst at Warrington and fps dropped right back down to 10-15fps. Went back in the cab and waited still no change....Paused the game for a minute or two and then un-paused but still at 10-15fps so saved and went out then reloaded the save and fps were back up at mid 40s again???

Carried on to Preston and again some big drops which then cleared up a bit and settled back at mid 40s fps which is still around 10-15fps lower than Preston on Blackpool and WCMLoS routes but I'm assuming the version of Preston has more on the tile with the extra branches in this version???

I then thought I'd see what it was like running into Crewe so spawned at Winsford on foot and spawned a 47/3 with some mk2f coaches and ran down to Crewe at 10:00 and got all the way in to Crewe station with fps not dropping below around mid 40s to 50fps.

Hopefully things will improve after a few more runs and I may try upping the screen percentage back to 150% to see if it's any better. (I'll keep this one route at 100% screen percentage for now via the relevant command in the GodMode .ini.



Also.... JT Benedict who's the Hale & Pace fan at JT then????? IYKYK.

 

"Right yew lot...Shut up, belt up and if you can't see the bl**dy exits you must be bl**dy blind!"

 

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't know that shunting signals could also look like this. I thought only the disc signals are for shunting.

 

LOL hale and pace, man did that just trigger a nostalgia bomb

 

I’m not trying to cast blame, sorry if that came off wrong from my side. I am in fact having a blast with the route (apart from the performance) as I had stated elsewhere. The many different threads make it hard to always give the full picture.

I’m on PS5, so no can do, but thanks

 

Are Wigan and Dordrecht twin towns?

 

Is there a Neutral Section guide as yet like there is for the WCMLoS route?

I think I saw mention of the same person doing one for this route but wasn’t sure if it was still in the process of being done or had been done and I’ve missed it?

 

Here it is:

 

Two things to note here, 33 reviews is hardly a sample size, need way more than that and also, it's since improved to mostly positive.

 

I've never left a review on steam. I think people are generally more likely to review if they aren't happy with a product.

 

What’s the difference between the red and green? The WCMLoS one was all in black.

The Facebook link doesn’t work as it says the post is no longer available so only got the image from the attachment.

 

Here's a fresh Facebook link:

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/196SNyG4p8/

Perhaps he decided to use different colours for stopping and non-stop?

 

Thank you sirs, for the links to the neutral section guide

 

I'm not claiming their exact sales numbers, I'm noting that the reception to this has been noticeably poorer than their other products on the same platform.

And on them being "mostly positive".

1: It's not for me, the reviews in the default review filter at the bottom of the page are, but then that's excluding non-english ones, and I see no good reason to ignore them.

2: It's still considerably lower than either of the 90+% recommended scores that the other two routes have on the same platform. And I see no reason to think that isn't reflecting a broader trend when JT have noted themselves many people have issues running this route, and are prioritizing performance fixes for it.

 

S’ok…. the image that was attached originally on here didn’t have a key. The images in the Facebook post have a key for the colours.

 

Trying to do a full Merry Go Around tour, what is the best way to do the banking from Warrington to Latchford, the 08s doesnt have enough power and doing it from the 20 seems impossible too.

 

i would ask how do you clear it but i will have a look later, i've only done one run but the stutter was bad compared to WCMLos but i haven't done any pc cleaning for a while

 

Depends on your graphics card I’m afraid - for my RTX2060 there’s an Nvidia control panel where I had to disable shader cacheing, reboot, delete the relevant cache directories (I used a 3rd party utility, can’t remember what it was but ping me and I can let you know if need be), re-enable cacheing and then reboot again.

Spawn on foot in the problem areas and walk around a bit (Crewe, Warrington, Wigan etc) then go for a run, and hey presto!

 

Anyone knows if the the class 86 DLC and the cargo 5 add additional services or just layers?

 

Cargo Line 5 is definitely adding value. I've personally seen and launched several services with nuclear fuel railcars.

 

Haha that’s really well spotted! Other Dutch signs too like Brood en Zo, postkantoor and stripboeken, puzzels, spellen!

that’s funny

 

So regarding the Railtour, I drove the 47 from Preston to Crewe. I then did the run round manoeuvre to couple up to the Northern end of the consist.

But that's where it seemed to go odd, after I coupled up it didn't give me anything else to do. I then left the cab for several minutes, nothing.

So I left the game, decided to spawn on foot at 07:15 ready to take over for a 07.24 departure. But the consist wasn't there.

So I then left the game again, spawned in the loco to take it to Preston Deepdale. However it now has two twenties on the southern end and a 47/6 tucked in between the carriages and 47/3.

I feel like I'm missing something lol.

 

Looking at layers I don't have the ICI Hopper Wagons as I don't own Peak Forest.

Does anyone know how many services (player/ai) they provide on the route?

 

The ICI hoppers are AI only, I think only two AI services at that.

 

I’ve had this route a few days now after buying it for PS5 after the first couple of days of feedback came in so I was well aware of most of the issues by the time I bought it. I’ve only done that for this route because it is JT, in my era and in my local area. I haven’t bought the All Aboard routes with similar issues so this was an exception and an experiment. This isn’t really a feedback post as it covers well known issues but more of my thoughts about it and the detailed and busy routes some third parties are making now so I’ve put it in the discussion thread for simplicity. It’s not going to be a rant but I might ramble on for a bit.

The route is, as I expected, one of the best routes in the game for content and the absolute worst for issues (that I have bought). Those issues being the blurry textures (guaranteed on every service), massive hangs, some low frame rates and the occasional crash. There are also the more typical bugs a route might have and the two that are odd to me (as in how they happened) are the announcements not having the real destinations and the last calling point of the services in game having no arrival time. Hopefully these can be rectified.

I can’t enjoy trainspotting in this route because of the blurred and misshapen trains but I have been enjoying driving the trains somewhat despite some huge stutters and long hangs. It’s a shame that most services end up with the exterior of my loco having blurry low res textures at points along the way and/or at the end. Some of the timetable is confusing as to what links with what and many return to free roam follow on services don’t work properly. It needs more study from me to tell what’s going on as there are a lot of train movements in the freight parts of the timetable. One thing I tried was staying in the Class 20 on the coal services that have the 08 pull you back but as soon as it couples up it becomes a player service with no instructions. I gave up the service and when it did eventually move I followed it on foot lol then did the next part of the journey in the 20.

JT’s routes have reached and exceeded critical mass with the amount of stuff in them. It’s also affected Preston-Carlisle now there’s an extra loco and coaches on it and if the new Class 47 appears there as well it can only get worse. The same with the new DMU in the next route and if they make an EMU to complete the timetable here at some point. This route already has static stock missing to help but that’s not enough and future savings could easily get cancelled out when more stuff is added.

I’ll obviously wait and see if any improvements come along but the experiment has shown me for now, as I already suspected from feedback for other routes, these detailed and busy routes are not really suitable for PS5 and if things get even more loaded then I won’t be able to put up with the issues it brings. It’s a terrible shame. JT will obviously keep making more trains and if they appear on old routes and break them it will be a very bad experience and the only way I think new routes that use all the trains JT have made plus the new ones can work will be with reduced timetables. Even that hasn’t helped on some other routes by all accounts and is a poor experience in itself. I have the Frankfurt S-Bahn. It’s pointless as it is.

TSW being a choice between having trains or having problems is a crazy situation and it as bad for ambitious developers as it is for players. It’s something I’ve been wrestling with this year and it has stopped me buying. I bought this because it was always going to be the one route I bought at release no matter what and I wanted to see the issues for myself. I’m getting something from it but it’s like cycling with a flat tyre and no shoes on because of the issues, I’ll get where I’m going but it won’t be as enjoyable as it should be and quite painful at times.

I should be enjoying it a great deal, heaping praise on JT and looking forward to what they do in the next three or four DLC but I’m not really there at the moment, which as I say is a shame.

 

That's one of two routes (the new timetable on GWE remastered is the other), where TSW crashes if you try and load a save game. I would hat to see the JT routes go that way, especially Preston to Carlisle as most runs need to be done in more than one session.

 

…I’m on Xbox series X, 4k all relevant layers, the only issues I’ve come across so far are blurred AI trains passing in the opposite direction when travelling at speed, had no crashes in Crewe area in both timetable & scenario mode…OK so the yards around Warrington & Crewe are empty except for light locomotives, (which we knew in advance), but in scenario it runs fine with the yards populated plus minimal loss of frame rate ! For me it’s easily the most enjoyable DLC so far despite the core issues mentioned above. With regard to lineside detail & landscape it’s insanely accurate, practically photographic! I say this as someone who’s been travelling this route since 1967…Masterpiece, thoroughly enjoyable, recommend unreservedly,

 

…I know it’s a team effort but is Marcin Madro involved in this route ? The man’s a legend !

 

All of us at the JT team worked on the route, I mainly did the OHLE, timetable and some parts of the rolling stock implementation.

 

…it’s a masterpiece, thanks to you all.

 

Agree. I am loving this route. My only issue so far is not having enough time to 'play' more. Great work by the team.

 

Is the race track at Crewe meant to be empty or is there meant to be more happening at it? Or is it only active at certain times?

I've unlocked it and activated it in the Mastery section but it's just an empty deserted track when i've flown over it.

 

The local traffic to/from Lime street handled by 304s are not present as there isn't a viable in game substitute. But I agree it's still quite quiet. Does help with framerates though.

 

Has anybody been able to complete service 0A10 Arpley Shunting in chapter 3 of Journey Mode?

been the absolute bane of my day, it’s as if there is a break that keeps coming on. I’m currently stuck unable to move forward for the 4th time. It’s definitely something with the trailing class 20 (not the lead 08) as when I uncoupled the 20 it moves normally. I’ve checked both cabs in the trailing 20s and all brakes are set to shutdown and master keys out. I’ve also tried getting in the 20 and driving the service to completion from that end and it won’t move.

anybody else had this problem? I’m on PC

 

Looking at 0A10 as a service so no guarantee that the bug will be identical, but when you hook the 08 up to the consist it makes the loco brake on the 08 stop working correctly. It releases VERY, VERY slowly (a few mins to even start releasing).

May have something to do with the broken brakes on the class 20, because there is no way what the 08 is connected to should affect it's loco brake release time but it very much is right now.

Edit: and even if you connect with only a tiny bit of loco brake applied BC will still jump up to like 64 in the HUD.

Edit2: after a couple of connects and disconnects I have the HUD showing 63 on the BC yet I can move around like the brake is off (and the brake lever is set to off).

 

I've just played it with no problems in Journey Mode. Wait until the train you are going to connect with has come to a complete stop. Couple, change direction, release the brakes, wait a minute or so and drive.

I´m on PC.