Thames Valley Branches Discussion

Its a 9 out 10 for me feels a rushed in places. Im sure if he had longer it woukd have been flawless. But no doubt he was probably rushed by DTG.

 

IIRC, there is an early morning service from Reading depot to Twyford, which continues towards Henley.

 

Thames Valley Branches was made by Johannes of Incredible Trains, not AABS.

 

I also encountered the problem that the windows in the cabin cannot be opened, but then we found out that it is a problem with the substituted 166/165 from GWE. They appear there in Journey mode, if you have the substitutions turned on... otherwise if you choose the original 165 for this map, the windows in the cabin can be opened there... if you should have thought of this.

 

Thanks for this! I was quite bummed about the window.

Substitution is a complete mess at this point.

It's compium to think DTG have a fix for this for TSW7, right?

 

HOLY MOLY


THATS THE BIGGEST TELEPHONE BOX IVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE

 

For those who've been commentating about Windsor, here's some real-life pics from earlier today on my return from a trip to Reading.

 

Few more due to upload limit.

 

The scenery is awful in places, Windsor and Henley look terrible. The route is full of generic and low poly assets. The quality for such a tiny route is just not there so I can't recommend it unless you're not familiar at all with how this area of Britain looks.

The foliage is nice and it's good to have the 165 in livery designer, but I am massively disappointed overall. 5/10

 

I agree, substitutions are chaos and unnecessary burden, but chaos arising from the chaos of many versions of the same locomotives without any centralized level of update... it's a system error, where the same locomotives are constantly layered into many maps and thus many duplicate versions are created at many levels of development

 

yeah, I withdraw my 8/10 rating on scenery, I jumped the gun.

Turns out the scenery issues are a lot worse than I originally thought.

This is truly sad.

mildmay was a first try at a challenging route, so issues there, fair enough, your first route is more likely to have issues.

But the second route should NOT be lower quality. You should be learning from the first route.

The second time should be no excuse.

This route, dont get me wrong, has great positives, the foliage is nicely done and the token system is fun.

But this




Yeah no, I know this is a single developer, but come on, that excuse doesnt work with your second route.

 

Looks like another 3P route rubber stamped by DTG QA for the quick buck.

 

this is in no way a bad talk on Johannes, because he has a LOT of potential, but you cant release a route like that in this state.

Johannes doesnt have to do this all by himself. being a single developer is certainly a double edged sword.

the community can be most helpful to a lot of developers and third parties.

If he wants to, WE CAN HELP HIM.

 

There's nit even a mastery for it yet. Thats if its even getting one.

 

I don't think they are any depots on route. I do remember some sidings moves early AM

 

It's supposed to have one, it's the steam engine at Windsor, it's in the files

 

Did you post specific examples on the feedback thread for Johannes to see and fix? Could be an interesting learning experience for everyone. For example I don't know what causes floating cars. Is it a mismatch of scenery surface or something?
I'd like to see him fix these things and explain them.
The guy could have his own youtube channel that'd get a lot of traffic since he was very interesting on the livestream going into detail.

Given how much goes into a single route I am not going to jump down his throat over a few minor issues.

 

As much as i have a lot of sympathy and respect for Johannes, all devs have to be held accountable for mistakes in their routes, no matter how good, or how new they may be to TSW. It's a brutal learning curve.

if JT did something like this, they would get scrutiny.

So would firefly, so would AABS, so would DTG. So would ATS.

but once you listen to the community, learn from your mistakes, and hit the right level, that's when you become the champion of it. That's when you get praise and more respect from the community.

in general, the TSW community will hold third parties in high regard if they at least try and improve, and make more out of it.

Rivet didn't do that, and they got in serious muck and bother with fife.

 

Exactly. If you’re going to ask for a payday and play for Manchester United then you need to play at that level and not for Darlington! Of course this is where TSW falls flat on its face - with MSTS and TSC most authors cut their teeth by doing freeware first, but DTG have pretty much shut that avenue off for route building. In which case it’s also incumbent on them to ensure 3P’s are fully aware of the standards required and ensure anything presented for sale is thoroughly vetted and if need br constructively rejected.

 

I was excited for this route and for the money it's ok, I'll certainly enjoy playing it, there are lots of nice features and added detail but it would have been so much better to get the basics right first.....

Playing from the cab, there isn't too much wrong with the gameplay and it looks very pretty. However the minute you step outside the cab, I have to agree with the negativity, I hate criticising, but it's sloppy. There are so many floating assets, cars, fences and even whole buildings. There are also holes in the scenery, I found 2 just wandering around Windsor. In my opinion it needs far more custom assets, there are parts of Windsor approach that just don't look like Windsor, the buildings are too generic, I'm most disappointed about the bridge near Windsor which whilst it's the right shape, looks nothing like the one Brunel put there.

This is not ready for release in my opinion and MrSouthernDriver is spot on, if this was released by certain other 3rd Parties it would be torn to pieces.

Sorry to say it's sub par. 5 out of 10. If you don't know the area, you'll probably be happier than someone who does.

 

Now you know that cars (and not only them...)
fly,
Frendo!

 

If I'd critique something it's that it suffers from a look that almost all the routes for TSW have. A graininess to the textures, an unnatural "digital" appearance, and too much "noisy" foliage that doesn't look naturally placed. For whatever reasons the Czech route just looks much more realistic than almost all others.

 

Beautiful screen shots!!

looking forward to diving in later

 

My main worry here is listening to Tom call out the QA as having double standards. As that is part of his job for JT is the scenery and in his video he's very surprised that all of this got past the QA team as apparently they were very quite picky with the JT content?

 

No ETA on this but a patch is being planned for this route.

Massive respect for Johannes, he's trying his best, and in times of mistakes like this, planning to resolve it is the best thing you can do.

 

A post release patch comes with the territory and is expected.

 

After TSW 6

 

6? 7!

 

I think a big problem is that this was sold on the fact that because the route is small, a lot of effort has gone into making the scenery great. And, in many places it is. I think for the things that aren’t, it would be more constructive and we would have a better chance of issues being addressed if, rather than negatives comments here, we put detailed descriptions of issues in the Player Feedback thread for the route.
I certainly don’t regret buying this route (my first stand alone DLC since TSW6 launched because of the blurry texture problems, not present here thank goodness). I have found a couple of issues and have indeed listed them in the feedback thread in what I hope is a constructive way.

 

I loaded up a Windsor to Slough run and I guess owing to my ignorance of the Thames Valley branches found out it was only 2 miles long... Looking on the map the others don't look much longer either, Its kind of disappointing since we've seen far longer routes be freeware back in the TSC days.

 

I think the worst part of the route is Henley, because of the station having the wrong canopy, looks like it's from London to Brighton. Not a GWR canopy
The A4 over bridge between Twyford and Wargrave also has gaps and flying cars

Overall the Marlow branch is bar far the best

 

But this isn't TSC.
I'm not even sure you can create a whole route in the TSW editor like you can in TSC.

 

What is the proper procedure to shut down the cab at one end when reaching the terminal station and start up the cab at the other end for the return journey?

 

I think for me I can’t fault the scenery but then 99% of the time apart from photos, I’m always in the cab. Some of the scenery issues I would never think of even looking for or would notice!

 

Brakes to full
Reverser off
Master key out
Change ends
Master key in
Reverser Neutral

 

No there aren't. These units are based at Reading so would head up the GWE before taking-up duties, though a unit or two might be stabled in a siding overnight by the sounds of things.

 

Putting this purchase on hold as it seems to have been another rushed release, once again leaving lots of questions of how much, if any QA or testing is done with DLC. Perhaps the streams are the only testing products get?

Having so many floating buildings, sinking vehicles etc really is unforgivable. What a shame Johannes’ reputation is taking a hit. Hopefully it’s not another ATS repeat where we wait months for a patch. This needs patching and fixing quickly!

Poor show once again by DTG and all parties

 

Yes, we could certainly do with a foliage upgrade, more variation in tree types would be a start. The Czech route is great, agreed, especially the different grass and weeds etc. TSC routes can look more natural if done well imo.

 

You need to put brakes to Vacum. It did this to me as well. The train isnt set up as the coaching stock is Vacum Braked. So on the back wall of one of the leading 37 (in one of the cabs) is the Vacum / Air Brake Pasenger Goods dial.

The link below is where I found out I had to use Vacum brakes.

https://www.youtube.com/live/IvwY_5O7ru4?si=YXQXM1UeetYrcMd3&t=7310

Hentis

 

The GWR Class 165 does have windows on the drivers doors that can be pulled down. Be careful you dont accidentally open the doors when moving lol. I did that plenty of times. lol

The FGB 166 / 165 is the one from GWE Remastered.

Hentis

 

I ran into that before on another route and had to learn the hard way from trial and error.
I finally realized after many tries that "this is old stuff. It has the old brakes."
It's actually very accurate in that way, just me being dumb =-)

 

To be fair in comparing this to Czech or Mildmay or Sufragette... those are also about twice the cost.
If Johannes had a perfect project with not a single bug or error.... would you pay twice as much for the extra time spent on it? (The last two are about the same amount of total track after all)
And is there any "perfect" route in existence with zero defects to compare it to?

 

I see a lot of screenshots and people mentioning issues with the scenery, like this is something new. However, (almost) every route has this kind of issues and a lot of them are never fixed. From what I see here, this is just the default TSW "quality".

If you compare TSW routes with vids of the IRL route or when you're familiar with the place IRL, there are a lot of things not the same, with generic buildings, missing stuff and a different look and feel in general. Some routes are better then others, but you really can find something on every route released for TSW.

 

TrainsimTV does the scenery for the JT routes and has said that QA pick up heavily on a lot of those scenery issues in the JT content when they submit it for testing so I don't think it's just one of those things with TSW. I think it's just been rushed a little, because generally the scenery is very good and detailed but it just needs a little polish which I don't think is unreasonable. Because the route has so much potential!

 

I can agree that there are routes with better quality as others. However there are no routes which are just an exact one to one copy of IRL, maybe the Czech route is one coming close. The average DTG routes are also suffering the same quality problems, but some polish can help every released route. The lack of polish and being rushed is just a general TSW issue.

 

How many assets are there on a given route? Thousands? Tens of thousands?
How many are "broken" or "bad?" A few dozen? A hundred perhaps?
Legitimately, not just "that's not perfectly what that building looks like since I pass it every day?"
For the average person in a SIMULATOR, who has never seen them, would you say 1 in 100 houses are "bugged?"
How many of the cars are flying? 1 in 100?
How many of the road signs are entirely incorrect or missing? 1 in 100?
Because if you compared it to any other job.... 99% is a pretty good success rate.
Does the local restaurant get 100% of their orders correct?
Does your local garage never make a mistake?
Do doctors never make a mistake?

I agree SOME things are obvious and need a fix (like flying cars and houses that don't touch the ground).... BUT I think we need to also manage expectations to a level where it's reasonable for a "casual simulation." This isn't a professional architectural program with laser scanning and accuracy within a centimeter in a CAD program. It's a guy making a route in his spare time based on some pictures and with the available assets he has...for under 20 euros.

I don't EXPECT a professional architect level of detail where every house is built by hand to exacting specifications. I also don't expect to PAY the hundreds of dollars at a minimum that would cost. Here, I don't think the point can be made strongly enough. This is an under $20 route...where the others of similar size are selling for $40. (Mildmay, Sufragette, Isle of Wight, West Somerset)

So we're going to jump on this guy for producing a route for HALF the cost that it's not BETTER than those routes?

That seems unfair.

I'm all for fixing the glaring stuff, but getting bent out of shape about the LITTLE stuff like buildings not being the right color or the window placement not being perfect is just nitpicking. It's unfair to expect a higher level than other routes for HALF the cost.

It's a casually fun game about trains that is to give you the general "feel" of an area. If you think you can do better, go for it. Show us just how "easy" it is. As I said, I encourage Johannes to fix the glaringly obvious stuff like flying cars and floating buildings or bridges not sitting on embankments... but the rest is just minor cosmetics. And often stuff that's not even VISIBLE from the train so I don't even consider it in the "gaming area."

I think we need to separate the two very different things and prioritize. As a non-local, I don't know what color the house on that street corner is... but I do know that cars should drive on the ground. That's where my "realism" level is for this DLC. That seems reasonable to me.

 

It's being sold at half the price because it's half the length. It's the second-shortest route in TSW after the Island Line. Considering most of the marketing was around the fact that the short route length meant there'd be amazing levels of detail, from the reviews and screenshots I've seen this clearly falls short.

 

Quite an enjoyable collection of short routes, I’m quite satisfied with this especially for the price. High speed main line running is fun, but I like seeing this different side of British railroading.

 

Just to be clear I'm talking mostly about the floating buildings, the gaps in the scenery and things being sunk into the floor when I say it needs a little polish not the making it a 100% exact copy

The realism would've just been nicer in the grand scheme but it's not a deal-breaker.

 

13.5 miles Thames Valley $17.99 at release
13 miles Sufragette Line $29.99 at release
12 miles Mildmay Line $29.99 at release
8.5 miles Isle of Wight $24.99 at release

Other slightly longer examples
20 miles Cathcart Circle $29.99 at release
20 miles Cardiff $39.99 at release
16 miles S-Bahn Zentralschweiz $24.99 at release
16 miles Arosalinie $29.99 at release
14 miles Bakerloo $29.99 at release