I've heard several people say London Commuter/Brighton Main Line is long overdue for a remaster and would love to see it soon. Given this route is very busy with trains entering and exiting London Victoria and Brighton every minute, lengthy trains pulling in and out of other station platforms every minute, then there's Gatwick Airport and so forth, my question is: Is it worth it to remaster routes not yet fully optimized? For example, did GWE Remastered receive an optimization boost when it received it remaster? Perhaps I'm confused. Does optimization only apply to the TSW core game as a whole or can it also apply to a specific route? For instance, say somewhere in the future, does it make sense to remaster WCML Trent Valley but still have "out of memory" crashes on other gaming platforms because it lacks optimization? I would love to see many routes remastered, but as beautiful as they are remastered it would be a complete waste if the routes continue to run unoptimized, is this correct? It feels like cart before horse sometimes. Sigh...trying to put my head around this.
Optimisation. Always. You cant have remasters without the proper optimisations in place first. Optimisation is highly dependant on the core of the game, the core of the game, impacts how all of the routes look.
BUT all the content that needs optimising is in the routes and trains, so the optimisation needs to be everywhere. There's only so much you can do in the game, ultimately if you're trying to load lots of big textures in to memory for all these trains that are buzzing around - either you need more ram, or smaller textures, or less trains. But yes - in any remaster, optimisation has to come first. Matt.
I guess maybe some would then question whether route hopping is even necessary if better memory optimization was in place such as for example one full long route i.e, Crewe to Birmingham to London Euston? So say down the line it's easier to remaster the entire WCML in one full swoop than remastered in different pieces at different release times.
Would you say then that remastering a route like London Commuter could make this route that was doing very well with all layers running before its remaster worse even with optimization where I might have to reduce? If rebuilding, adding more textures, bumping up colors and scenery is included with optimization/remastering then it almost makes those improvements not worth it the game was operating fine without them. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding? A route where I had all layers running before the remaster I'm now having to reduce layers due to a remaster and it may run worse than before even with optimization? I would say not worth the remastering then, right?
I do think we need to figure out what we're using the word Optimised for. You can have the full route, and it be "fully optimised" and still not work very well for other reasons. I wouldn't even consider a remaster of this route, until we had gone through and optimised it to within an inch of its existence. Then we'd take a look, and decide what made sense based on whether and how much that free'd up in resources. But if you just throw everything possible onto it... probably not going to end well. Matt.
Oh okay cool. Out of curiosity when you say "and still not work very well for other reasons" would you mind sharing what those other reasons might entail? Having to omit certain timetables from a longer route perhaps?
So let’s assume that you have optimised the route and trains so they use the least memory possible while retaining the quality. Now you add extra detail to the route and add a few hundred extra services using other trains like the 700 - potentially you’re back to hitting ram limits again because it’s a finite amount. So you either add less trains, less services or dial quality back so it all uses less ram, or some combination.
If you upgrade a route to TOD4, it hits performance anyway. Things like volumetric fog are just consuming extra recourses. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think DTG first optimize an excisting old route and then upgrade it. Most likely it will be more like upgrading to TOD4, replace stuff and add stuff like foliage, all in a effecient way and then optimize it the areas where it is needed.
I was wondering the same. Basically spot optimization in a sense. Cleaning up dirty areas of memory hog and so forth. For example on NEC Corridor: Stamford to New York I can't even load the route on a busy rush hour timetable leaving Grand Central with 28 layers running. It just takes me to the crash screen on my PS5 Pro. Yes, I get can get in to the Grand Central Terminal starting from Stamford with 28 layers. But I cannot start out of Grand Central to Stamford with those same layers running on a similar busy rush hour timetable so I've had to reduced them down to between 10 and 14 layers. I always found that peculiar because even though I agree there are a lot of services running at once, from a texture aspect I'm dealing with platform lighting, a handful of passengers, utter darkness and the long Grand Central tunnel. It's not like I'm completely out of the tunnel and racing down to Harlem - 125th Street with surrounding NY buildings and other textures. So I'm wondering if spot optimization would help a situation where the focus is on the troubled area of Grand Central Terminal and platforms where some of us on consoles are struggling just to get out and can't even get started on our travel to Stamford without a layer reduction. Just a thought I guess.
S Some routes, or better parts of them, are just to much. Frankfurt HBf on Kinzigtalbahn is also such a part, a lot of trains parked in the yard and many trains in the station and the amount of tracks and signs. The stutterfest already starting at the bridge near Frankfurt. I don't know if you can optimize this better, there is just a awful lot going on there and that hits the FPS. I think there are also streaming issues because the amount of stuff to be loaded in and this happening when you arrive at the bridge. I think in rush hour there are less or none parked trains in the yard and the amount of stuttering at the bridge is way less.
The main thing (IMHO) routes like London to Brighton need - which still actually looks quite good to me barring the odd scenery omission - is reverb for the bridges and tunnels. Not sure how much of an extra load that would impart. But if it comes down to a coin toss between optimisation and a full on fluffy remaster, I would go for optimisation every time. I mean, the GWE remaster is very nice but created the issue with the new timetable where loading a saved game crashes the game and locks up the PC even! And going forward, guess it comes down to route choices for the game. Presumably a lot more detail could go into something like a version of the Buchan Line or Feather River (currently my go to’s in TSC) with a low service density, than Liverpool Street to Colchester or Washington to Philadelphia!
Sure thing. Thanks for looking into this. I can give you two examples down below. I've also JPG attached just in case. Keep in mind, before I tried these to replay these two particular timetables last night from the NEC Corridor Metro I made sure for each of these to completely restart my PS5 Pro. I also failed to mention previously this seems to be happening only on the MNR M8 so these timetables are on the M8 timetable. The M3A MTA and M7A MTA run fine so far from what I've played coming out of Grand Central. Example 1: 1314 Grand Central to Stamford - Timetable 08:34 Example 2: 1358 Grand Central to Stamford - Timetable 17:30
As a concession, for London to Brighton, I'd personally just love to lift the limit on AI services in scenario planner, not really fussed about adding TOD4 to it or any of that. I have a fairly good system of 10 trains running to and from Victoria Platform 10 to Reigate and some to Gatwick Airport on all stoppers (using 313s vice 455s and 377/3s) then the remaining trains run fast services approx 10 mins apart from Platforms 17/18/19 down to Preston Park Platform 1 and turning back. It takes some fiddling but it's doable and then allows you 700s or any other stock and it feels busy. But if the 20 train limit was increased to say 30, or 40 it would be even better. Also, if possible, allowing chained paths from Brighton platforms would be another bonus. But in terms of remastering the route, why bother. It runs well, stands up well and isn't it better to concentrate on something new, like cough*** South Western mainline cough****
The modified Brighton line performs well on PC with class 700 s added into an occasionally chaotic timetable without optimisation. Sadly they run about with headlights blazing onto the track in the middle of a sunny day and with 12 car sets hanging off platforms with rear doors wide open. Would be nice to have fixes with maybe AI services using marker lights only and some form of selective door opening. I know that won't happen but I just thought I would mention what a waste it is not being able to use them on this part of their main core route. Not to have a proper timetable with 700 s included because "the game couldn't handle it" seems rather lame as an excuse unless they are leaving lots of space for SWT AI services at Clapham Junction which would of course drive sales of new content.
I´m still amazed they never did anything with the 700 besides the short stump on SEHS. I think a Thameslink route could be very popular.
London to Brighton would be better if was rebuilt from ground up same with Great Western Express and Bakerloo so route can be merge and extended
ABSOLUTELY. That's why I'm always advocating ECMLS or MMLS. Both have thameslink. Same with a BML remaster.
I like the 700. For a so-called one-handle EMU it has fine control for throttle and braking, and a super view from the cab.
The OG sound is still pretty dire though, not DTG’s audio department finest hour. The mod does make it bearable though.
A mod? What is this thing of which you speak? Similar to a rocker, but with a different taste in audio, yes?
Cue Die Hard, Nakatome Ellis laugh... Harry Ellis Seriously though, it's on Train Sim Community and very good.
I just want to preface to everyone this post in response to Matt’s earlier post in this thread regarding examples regarding NEC Stamford. Since the examples are quite extensive, I didn’t want everyone to think I was deliberately posting examples improperly in this thread when they were originally requested in this thread. Matt, earlier I sent you two examples (which are again included in the list below) but this is the complete crash list. I combed through all the M8 timetables departing Grand Central and flagged which timetables are crashing during the timetable loading process. Keep in mind again the listed crashing timetables below are timetables only when departing Grand Central while using the M8 on PS5 Pro. It was painstaking and brutal but with each crash and complete game restart I found out there were more timetables crashing than I originally thought. I’ve also attached JPEGs of the list of the layers running on the timetable. I believe there are 27 total out of 28. Hope all this helps the QA team pinpoint these much clearer. PLATFORM: PS5 PRO (purchased May 2026) 1306 – 05:57 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1028 – 07:34 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1036 – 07:52 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1512 – 08:03 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1038 – 08:18 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1314 – 08:34 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1084 – 08:49 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1040 – 08:54 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1516 – 09:03 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 2003 – 09:11 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 2007 – 09:25 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1416 – 09:34 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 2011 – 09:36 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1050 – 09:43 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1184 – 09:49 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1518 – 10:03 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1524 – 11:33 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 2023 – 12:02 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1528 – 12:33 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1334 – 13:36 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1338 – 14:36 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1340 – 15:07 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1244 – 15:57 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1346 – 16:25 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1546 – 16:31 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1548 – 16:41 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1552 – 16:59 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1254 – 17:17 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1256 – 17:20 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1556 – 17:21 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1456 – 17:27 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1358 – 17:30 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1458 – 17:33 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1360 – 17:36 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1560 – 17:40 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1362 – 17:52 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1464 – 17:54 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1264 – 17:56 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1368 – 18:18 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1570 – 18:30 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1378 – 19:14 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING) 1590 – 22:05 (CRASHED DURING TIMETABLE LOADING)
The First step should be to Delete duplicate trains like all the Class 66, BR 185 or Dostos. Because 1 Train and loco is enough with different liveries, there is no Need to have This Same Train in over 10 DLCs
Can I confirm if anyone else on Xbox Series X, PS5 or PS5 Pro can reproduce the crashes listed above? thatvaultguy#1852 thank you for that list - that's going to be really useful, i'll pass it to QA and Beta. I did pass the other two over to the Xbox beta team and they weren't experiencing any crashes there, which is odd given the xbox has less memory than the PS5 let alone the pro. Matt.
